SL/R129: Complete Removal of Rag Top and All Hydraulics
10-11-2015, 02:24 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Complete Removal of Rag Top and All Hydraulics
Greetings Brethren of the Benz. This is my very first post in this forum, so I hope that I can be forgiven for cutting and pasting a question I first posed over at the Benzworld forum. I am repeating my inquiries here just in case my ramblings come to the attention of someone here that has performed this radical roof-ectomy surgery on their R129.
So, here goes ....
As I am shortly about to take tow-truck delivery of a 1996 SL500 project car, I figured there would be no harm asking a couple of questions even before the vehicle arrives.
First off I want to say that the R129 is, in my humble opinion, one of the most aesthetically pleasing cars ever wrought by the hand of man, which makes the ridiculously low price I am paying for my project car all the more remarkable.
Now, cutting to the chase, as much as I love the R129's sleek looks, I have never been a fan of rag tops, and as such have decided to side-step all the complications with multiple lift cylinders and such, by simply using ONLY the aluminium top, and permanently removing the rag top, and all its associated hardware, right away.
That said, I do intend to keep that all important roll bar, and if possible have it permanently deployed, under the aluminium top, IF it is indeed possible to do so.
My questions to the experts here are therefore as follows :
1. Can anyone offer a ballpark figure on how many pounds or kilos of weight I will remove from the vehicle if I go ahead and ditch the rag top and its thicket of hydraulic cylinders ?
2. Are there likely to be any adverse effects on the vehicle electrical systems if the entire rag top assembly, and all its associated hydraulic cylinders are unceremoniously removed, leaving ONLY the lift (damper?) cylinders for the roll bar ?
3. If by removing all but one pair of the hydraulic cylinders, will it still be possible for me to position the roll bar PERMANENTLY in the up ( deployed position ), UNDER the aluminium roof, with no intention of ever retracting it for as long as I use the car ?
4. Can the roll bar, in its upright deployed position fit under the aluminium roof with no modifications required ?
Any answers you R129 meisters can offer would be greatly appreciated by this ragtop averse noob. Thanks in advance.
So, here goes ....
As I am shortly about to take tow-truck delivery of a 1996 SL500 project car, I figured there would be no harm asking a couple of questions even before the vehicle arrives.
First off I want to say that the R129 is, in my humble opinion, one of the most aesthetically pleasing cars ever wrought by the hand of man, which makes the ridiculously low price I am paying for my project car all the more remarkable.
Now, cutting to the chase, as much as I love the R129's sleek looks, I have never been a fan of rag tops, and as such have decided to side-step all the complications with multiple lift cylinders and such, by simply using ONLY the aluminium top, and permanently removing the rag top, and all its associated hardware, right away.
That said, I do intend to keep that all important roll bar, and if possible have it permanently deployed, under the aluminium top, IF it is indeed possible to do so.
My questions to the experts here are therefore as follows :
1. Can anyone offer a ballpark figure on how many pounds or kilos of weight I will remove from the vehicle if I go ahead and ditch the rag top and its thicket of hydraulic cylinders ?
2. Are there likely to be any adverse effects on the vehicle electrical systems if the entire rag top assembly, and all its associated hydraulic cylinders are unceremoniously removed, leaving ONLY the lift (damper?) cylinders for the roll bar ?
3. If by removing all but one pair of the hydraulic cylinders, will it still be possible for me to position the roll bar PERMANENTLY in the up ( deployed position ), UNDER the aluminium roof, with no intention of ever retracting it for as long as I use the car ?
4. Can the roll bar, in its upright deployed position fit under the aluminium roof with no modifications required ?
Any answers you R129 meisters can offer would be greatly appreciated by this ragtop averse noob. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Merc Mania; 10-11-2015 at 06:07 AM.
10-12-2015, 03:11 AM
#2
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'96 SL600, '05 S55 AMG, '06 C230
Not a clue as to the weight savings by removing the soft top and cylinders, though the soft top frame/canvas is fairly weighty. There are a couple proximity switches that may be problematic if their associated cylinder is removed. You'd have to ensure each sensor is 'tripped' as if the raising or lowering sequence was complete. This should satisfy the electronics. With the hydraulic pump electrically disconnected, you should be home free. Word of caution... You will need to keep the hydraulic pump active until the hard top is latched in place. This means that any open or uncapped hydraulic line will spew hydraulic fluid and you will have to retain 4 cylinders.
But the question dares to be asked - Why? Resale value of the car would be substantially less without soft top capability. Of course, it's your car, your personal choice. But I would consider the car's worth after stripping it of the soft top and hydraulics.
Regarding 3&4, the roll bar can be deployed under the hardtop with no adverse effects. However, it will partially obscure the rear window. The roll bar, as I understand it, was not designed to be deployed and left deployed, though the car drives just fine with it deployed. Also, the roll bar can deploy without the hydraulic system. But to retract it, the hydraulic system must be active. There is a very, VERY strong spring that pops the roll bar up in an emergency, while simple hydraulic pressure returns it to it's storage well.
Cheers,
Jeff
But the question dares to be asked - Why? Resale value of the car would be substantially less without soft top capability. Of course, it's your car, your personal choice. But I would consider the car's worth after stripping it of the soft top and hydraulics.
Regarding 3&4, the roll bar can be deployed under the hardtop with no adverse effects. However, it will partially obscure the rear window. The roll bar, as I understand it, was not designed to be deployed and left deployed, though the car drives just fine with it deployed. Also, the roll bar can deploy without the hydraulic system. But to retract it, the hydraulic system must be active. There is a very, VERY strong spring that pops the roll bar up in an emergency, while simple hydraulic pressure returns it to it's storage well.
Cheers,
Jeff
10-12-2015, 02:00 PM
#3
Member
Thread Starter
Hello Jeff and thank you very much for your informative reply. Recalling the YouTube videos that I studied about the installation of hardtop, I noticed that the hydraulics were involved in locking down that hardtop both along the top edge of the windscreen, and at the back, so your timely reminder about retaining the hydraulics cylinders responsible for that locking down of the hardtop, and for retracting the roll-bar is much appreciated.
I do realize that removing the canvas top and all its hardware will lower the resale value of the vehicle, however my intention is to maintain and drive my newly acquired R129 for as long as maintenance spare parts are available in the market, or until I grow too old to drive a car, whichever comes first.
Scanning the topics in several R129 discussion forums, notably this one and Benzworld, I couldn't help noticing that a substantial number of the problems with this vehicle all relate to the ageing hydraulics, and the soft top, so frankly I am a little bit surprised to note that thus far no R129 forum members have mentioned ever taking that step of resorting to a complete removal of the all hydraulics and plumbing associated with that canvas roof, so as to tool around with that beautifully shaped aerodynamic aluminum roof permanently affixed, after shedding all the dead weight associated with rag top.
I located and printed out the R129 workshop manual pages that describe the layout and functionality of the canvas top hydraulics and the roll-bar. It is an intimidating dissertation that goes on for well over 25 pages crammed with baffling schematics, so definitely I have my work cut out poring over that document and trying to figure out which hydraulics cylinders and lines to retain, which pipes to block, and which aspects of the electronics system need to be bypassed or shorted out in order to retain a semblance of normal functionality and avoid high-pressure hydraulic leaks when I press the button to lock down the aluminum roof, or to open the trunk(boot).
Not having encountered any other R129 drivers who have performed this tricky little bit of surgery does mean that I am going to have to learn from my own mistakes and wrong turns, when I embark on this project. In this part of the world, R129 Mercs can only be found gathering dust in the backyards of the super rich, or in the junkyards, waiting to be cut up as scrap. The concept of a classic car does not translate to Africa, where anything old is automatically regarded as being worthless by all the locals who have the means to by new models.
The 1997 SL500 that I expect to pick up this week therefore is probably not going to cost much more than about the equivalent of US$300, so I can't go wrong in acquiring one of these diamonds in the rough, and then slowly polishing that castaway stone to a pristine finish over time.
As I bumble along, I will likely write back here in search of technical advice.
Once again, may I express my gratitude for your detailed and insightful response.
I do realize that removing the canvas top and all its hardware will lower the resale value of the vehicle, however my intention is to maintain and drive my newly acquired R129 for as long as maintenance spare parts are available in the market, or until I grow too old to drive a car, whichever comes first.
Scanning the topics in several R129 discussion forums, notably this one and Benzworld, I couldn't help noticing that a substantial number of the problems with this vehicle all relate to the ageing hydraulics, and the soft top, so frankly I am a little bit surprised to note that thus far no R129 forum members have mentioned ever taking that step of resorting to a complete removal of the all hydraulics and plumbing associated with that canvas roof, so as to tool around with that beautifully shaped aerodynamic aluminum roof permanently affixed, after shedding all the dead weight associated with rag top.
I located and printed out the R129 workshop manual pages that describe the layout and functionality of the canvas top hydraulics and the roll-bar. It is an intimidating dissertation that goes on for well over 25 pages crammed with baffling schematics, so definitely I have my work cut out poring over that document and trying to figure out which hydraulics cylinders and lines to retain, which pipes to block, and which aspects of the electronics system need to be bypassed or shorted out in order to retain a semblance of normal functionality and avoid high-pressure hydraulic leaks when I press the button to lock down the aluminum roof, or to open the trunk(boot).
Not having encountered any other R129 drivers who have performed this tricky little bit of surgery does mean that I am going to have to learn from my own mistakes and wrong turns, when I embark on this project. In this part of the world, R129 Mercs can only be found gathering dust in the backyards of the super rich, or in the junkyards, waiting to be cut up as scrap. The concept of a classic car does not translate to Africa, where anything old is automatically regarded as being worthless by all the locals who have the means to by new models.
The 1997 SL500 that I expect to pick up this week therefore is probably not going to cost much more than about the equivalent of US$300, so I can't go wrong in acquiring one of these diamonds in the rough, and then slowly polishing that castaway stone to a pristine finish over time.
As I bumble along, I will likely write back here in search of technical advice.
Once again, may I express my gratitude for your detailed and insightful response.
Last edited by Merc Mania; 10-12-2015 at 03:36 PM.
10-13-2015, 04:21 AM
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'96 SL600, '05 S55 AMG, '06 C230
It is VERY understandable that you wish to avoid the ills of the soft top hydraulics. I am deep into the cylinder changeout as I write this and although I am mechanically inclined, the neighborhood has heard quite a bit of colorful verbiage from my garage. This work is not for the faint of heart! Thus, I sympathize with your thinking. That said, you could leave the hydraulics as is, latch the hard top in place, then disconnect power from the hydraulic pump in the trunk. That is simple to do - remove spare tire, remove plastic cover in the tire well, unplug cable from the pump. As a rule, as long as the pump is not activated, you'll never get a leak, even over the windshield frame. Something to consider. Removing the hydraulic system could be accomplished, but is it really worth the time and frustration? And you will have to adequately cap the lines to make the final hard top latch. Food for thought.
Cheers,
Jeff
Cheers,
Jeff
10-13-2015, 05:48 AM
#5
Member
Thread Starter
Thinking over this very simple, uncomplicated method you have described, Jeff, I will most likely now follow the steps in your post above, and retain the plumbing and cylinders. It never occurred to me that disconnecting the hydraulic pump once it has done its job of latching the roof down would achieve the objective of stopping leaks even if they existed, with minimal hassle.
My hat is off to you, sir. With that single paragraph of advice you have been kind enough to offer here, I will save myself many hours of messy labor that I would either do myself, or pay shade tree mechanics to muddle through.
May thanks again. Your solution is elegant in its simplicity, and simplicity is what I strive for as much as is possible.
My hat is off to you, sir. With that single paragraph of advice you have been kind enough to offer here, I will save myself many hours of messy labor that I would either do myself, or pay shade tree mechanics to muddle through.
May thanks again. Your solution is elegant in its simplicity, and simplicity is what I strive for as much as is possible.
10-19-2015, 03:08 PM
#6
Junior Member
I would like to do something similar. I want to disconnect the power to the hydraulic system and just raise and lower the roof manually. But I would love to find a way to loosen some connections here and there to relieve the resistance (when pulling the roof out of the storage well). I have the tool that operates everything, but have seriously considered making a tool for each of the locking points in order to expedite the process of lowering and raising the roof.
I wonder what's the fastest time a single person can lift or lower the roof manually.
I wonder what's the fastest time a single person can lift or lower the roof manually.
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01-04-2021, 08:50 AM
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94 SL320 98 SL500 99 SL600 07 SL55
A 4 locks for the hard top can be manually operated no need for hydraulic system. Roll bar is electric switch deployed. Remove everything hydraulic and take bulb out of console switch You can sell the controller too,
