SL/R230: Difference between Maybach 57 & 600 TT engine...
04-20-2008, 04:46 AM
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V12-Biturbo
Difference between Maybach 57 & 600 TT engine...
Just found out the Maybach 57 uses the exact same 600 TT engine but just increased boost on the turbos to get 550 HP & 664 Torque, like a mini aftermarket tune, this makes me feel extremely safe knowing the 600 TT engine can handle plenty of aftermarket boost safely!!
the article also went on to say Mercedes severely DE-TUNED the 600 engine to keep sl55/65 sales up!
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But the 600 TT is still highly underrated in stock form....I found this too
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the article also went on to say Mercedes severely DE-TUNED the 600 engine to keep sl55/65 sales up!--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Maybach's 5.5-liter twin turbo V12 shares its design and components with that of the S600. Since the 57 has about 1,400 pounds on the Benz, engineers increased the boost on both turbochargers to get a little more power out of the V12. Output is rated at 550 horsepower at 5,250 rpm and 664 pound-feet of torque at 2,300 rpm (compared to 493 hp and 590 lb-ft of torque in the S600).
But the 600 TT is still highly underrated in stock form....I found this too
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Originally Posted by JBrady
481.5 rwhp OEM... that is just amazing. We are TRULY in the golden age of automotive performance. car will SMOKE virtually any of the factory muscle cars from the 60s and 70s. a VERY quiet, VERY refined, VERY fast beast.
Regarding drivetrain loss. The smoother you make a car and the stronger (heavier) the components (hint: this is a heavy smooth POWERFUL car) the greater the drivetrain loss. 15% is a reasonable number for a NON IRS rear wheel drive car with a manual transmission. Most luxury cars in this class have a least 20% loss and can be higher (4wd). 22% seems exceedingly reasonable.
22% loss calc: 481.5 / 78 x 100 = 617 flywheel horsepower.
also, 718 flywheel torque
This 600 TT car engine appears to be underated by OVER 100hp and 100tq
481.5 rwhp OEM... that is just amazing. We are TRULY in the golden age of automotive performance. car will SMOKE virtually any of the factory muscle cars from the 60s and 70s. a VERY quiet, VERY refined, VERY fast beast.
Regarding drivetrain loss. The smoother you make a car and the stronger (heavier) the components (hint: this is a heavy smooth POWERFUL car) the greater the drivetrain loss. 15% is a reasonable number for a NON IRS rear wheel drive car with a manual transmission. Most luxury cars in this class have a least 20% loss and can be higher (4wd). 22% seems exceedingly reasonable.
22% loss calc: 481.5 / 78 x 100 = 617 flywheel horsepower.
also, 718 flywheel torque
This 600 TT car engine appears to be underated by OVER 100hp and 100tq
Last edited by Thericker; 04-20-2008 at 05:08 AM.
04-20-2008, 09:13 AM
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was a big part in my decision on what Mercedes to purchase next
I gotta keep my modding plans on the down-low, pm me for my latest up-coming modzzzz.
BTW do you still have that lower T-stat for sale? what gains would one expect to get w/that? besides obvious less heat
any more HP to be had w/it?BTW....Did you ever get any dyno charts? love to see your rwhp/rwto
& if you could ever clone your AMG tune you'd be sitting on a gold mine
Last edited by Thericker; 04-20-2008 at 09:32 AM.
04-20-2008, 11:07 AM
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2006 Honda Civic Hybrid, 2004 SL600 (stock for now)
I bought my SL600 about a month ago and I'm bursting at the seems to upgrade the ECU/TCU 
. To be honest, I'd really rather not spend 5-6 grand to do it though. I've been doing research to find out the best bang for the buck on the tuning but I continually come accross conflicting information. From someone who's been there, done that (E55JAY) and from someone who's looking such as myself (Thericker), what do you two guys think? I know this question has been posted many times before on these forums and I have actually pm'd AdamG with Evotech, but there's been chatter about him no longer being in business? I just pm'd him 2 days ago, so maybe he's just not had time to respond. Don't hate anyone, just some things I've read....I know nothing about AdamG nor any of his business dealings.
. To be honest, I'd really rather not spend 5-6 grand to do it though. I've been doing research to find out the best bang for the buck on the tuning but I continually come accross conflicting information. From someone who's been there, done that (E55JAY) and from someone who's looking such as myself (Thericker), what do you two guys think? I know this question has been posted many times before on these forums and I have actually pm'd AdamG with Evotech, but there's been chatter about him no longer being in business? I just pm'd him 2 days ago, so maybe he's just not had time to respond. Don't hate anyone, just some things I've read....I know nothing about AdamG nor any of his business dealings.
04-20-2008, 02:05 PM
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Most of these have never been posted so here goes in chronological order:
This dyno is the only one that I have that has a TQ reading. This was done by the previous owner in Oklahoma after the original modification of the ECU/TCU, this was the only modification to the car at the time. As you can see it was conducted on a Mustang Dyno and made 481rwhp 658rwtq uncorrected and it corrected to 517.5rwhp 708.1rwtq
The owner traded in the 600 for a 65. For some reason the dealership took the car to another dyno to have it tested. At this time the car was suffering from a faulty intercooler pump but no one knew this. You can tell the car bleeding boost due to high IAT's by the dyno numbers. This was conducted on a dynojet which reads slightly higher then the previous mustang dyno so you can theorize the HP loss.
Upon delivery the car had a host of electrical problems that I immediately got fixed, at the dealership they scanned the ECU and found high IAT codes and replaced the stock IC pump with a new stock one. Ironically at this time I didnt know these cars suffered from this issue. The drove like a beast and I decided to take it to a local dynojet to see what it would make here in MD. The below are uncorrected figures done slightly above sealevel 60 deg F. Dyno operator was not able to get a tach signal. 525.44rwhp which evidenced the HP gain/loss from the bad pump.
Next I changed the airfilters. I went to same dyno as before, temp was 19 degrees hotter and I baselined 512rwhp, I then took out the old filters and installed my k&n's and put down 522rwhp for a 10rwhp gain. I have misplaced that actual dyno run.
Next I changed my exhaust, went back to the same dyno in almost weather identical conditions as evidenced on the dyno sheet. I made 537rwhp picked up 16rwhp peak to peak and 32rwhp under the curve.
Next I added the large water reservoir to the trunk for ice. I will re-dyno at some point, I think maybe I make 550rwhp+ 720+rwtq with ice water in the veins but thats just theory for now.
This dyno is the only one that I have that has a TQ reading. This was done by the previous owner in Oklahoma after the original modification of the ECU/TCU, this was the only modification to the car at the time. As you can see it was conducted on a Mustang Dyno and made 481rwhp 658rwtq uncorrected and it corrected to 517.5rwhp 708.1rwtq
The owner traded in the 600 for a 65. For some reason the dealership took the car to another dyno to have it tested. At this time the car was suffering from a faulty intercooler pump but no one knew this. You can tell the car bleeding boost due to high IAT's by the dyno numbers. This was conducted on a dynojet which reads slightly higher then the previous mustang dyno so you can theorize the HP loss.
Upon delivery the car had a host of electrical problems that I immediately got fixed, at the dealership they scanned the ECU and found high IAT codes and replaced the stock IC pump with a new stock one. Ironically at this time I didnt know these cars suffered from this issue. The drove like a beast and I decided to take it to a local dynojet to see what it would make here in MD. The below are uncorrected figures done slightly above sealevel 60 deg F. Dyno operator was not able to get a tach signal. 525.44rwhp which evidenced the HP gain/loss from the bad pump.
Next I changed the airfilters. I went to same dyno as before, temp was 19 degrees hotter and I baselined 512rwhp, I then took out the old filters and installed my k&n's and put down 522rwhp for a 10rwhp gain. I have misplaced that actual dyno run.
Next I changed my exhaust, went back to the same dyno in almost weather identical conditions as evidenced on the dyno sheet. I made 537rwhp picked up 16rwhp peak to peak and 32rwhp under the curve.
Next I added the large water reservoir to the trunk for ice. I will re-dyno at some point, I think maybe I make 550rwhp+ 720+rwtq with ice water in the veins but thats just theory for now.
04-20-2008, 05:15 PM
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WoW!!!! thank you! I'm going for a baseline dyno soon, then exhaust/air-filter change to see where she stands
What did you notice before you "replaced the stock IC pump with a new stock one"?
What did you notice before you "replaced the stock IC pump with a new stock one"?
Last edited by Thericker; 04-20-2008 at 07:15 PM.
04-20-2008, 06:17 PM
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I bought my SL600 about a month ago and I'm bursting at the seems to upgrade the ECU/TCU . To be honest, I'd really rather not spend 5-6 grand to do it though. I've been doing research to find out the best bang for the buck on the tuning but I continually come accross conflicting information. From someone who's been there, done that (E55JAY) and from someone who's looking such as myself (Thericker), what do you two guys think? I know this question has been posted many times before on these forums and I have actually pm'd AdamG with Evotech, but there's been chatter about him no longer being in business? I just pm'd him 2 days ago, so maybe he's just not had time to respond. Don't hate anyone, just some things I've read....I know nothing about AdamG nor any of his business dealings.
. To be honest, I'd really rather not spend 5-6 grand to do it though. I've been doing research to find out the best bang for the buck on the tuning but I continually come accross conflicting information. From someone who's been there, done that (E55JAY) and from someone who's looking such as myself (Thericker), what do you two guys think? I know this question has been posted many times before on these forums and I have actually pm'd AdamG with Evotech, but there's been chatter about him no longer being in business? I just pm'd him 2 days ago, so maybe he's just not had time to respond. Don't hate anyone, just some things I've read....I know nothing about AdamG nor any of his business dealings. (E55JAY) is the lucky 1 w/AMG tuning
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04-21-2008, 08:04 PM
#9
E55JAY, what exhaust did you install?
Powerchip is probably your best bet and they are only $2,500. I have never heard a single bad thing about them and top tuners like Evosport and VRP Tuning use them.
I bought my SL600 about a month ago and I'm bursting at the seems to upgrade the ECU/TCU . To be honest, I'd really rather not spend 5-6 grand to do it though. I've been doing research to find out the best bang for the buck on the tuning but I continually come accross conflicting information. From someone who's been there, done that (E55JAY) and from someone who's looking such as myself (Thericker), what do you two guys think? I know this question has been posted many times before on these forums and I have actually pm'd AdamG with Evotech, but there's been chatter about him no longer being in business? I just pm'd him 2 days ago, so maybe he's just not had time to respond. Don't hate anyone, just some things I've read....I know nothing about AdamG nor any of his business dealings.
. To be honest, I'd really rather not spend 5-6 grand to do it though. I've been doing research to find out the best bang for the buck on the tuning but I continually come accross conflicting information. From someone who's been there, done that (E55JAY) and from someone who's looking such as myself (Thericker), what do you two guys think? I know this question has been posted many times before on these forums and I have actually pm'd AdamG with Evotech, but there's been chatter about him no longer being in business? I just pm'd him 2 days ago, so maybe he's just not had time to respond. Don't hate anyone, just some things I've read....I know nothing about AdamG nor any of his business dealings.Last edited by Tuskir; 04-21-2008 at 08:09 PM.
04-21-2008, 08:40 PM
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04-21-2008, 09:42 PM
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'04 SL55,'07 S550,'06 E55
...
I still don't get the need for so much power in a maybach its an oxymoron....if u go that fast u don't get a comfortable ride which is the purpose of the car, I think the phantom is around 450 hp if im correct
04-28-2008, 06:14 PM
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Jay,
I just sent you an email. With the intake air cooling system on the biturbo being water to air like the kompressor cars, aside from changing the pump have you added a larger core? I just had this done on my 55 and the proof is in the #s, I know that the biturbo cars don't have the problems of having a ****ty IC core being mounted under the blower, but it seems like from what you are saying IATs are a problem. What are your thoughts on a Johnson pump and a nice big core?
-m
I just sent you an email. With the intake air cooling system on the biturbo being water to air like the kompressor cars, aside from changing the pump have you added a larger core? I just had this done on my 55 and the proof is in the #s, I know that the biturbo cars don't have the problems of having a ****ty IC core being mounted under the blower, but it seems like from what you are saying IATs are a problem. What are your thoughts on a Johnson pump and a nice big core?
-m
