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Looking at a 2003 sl500 112,000 miles with suspension issues, car is in fair condition with decent tires and fair condition for its age. Looks like it has suspension issues with leaks, and possible top issues as well. Car starts but is in the ground. No suspension parts have been changed or updated since new. What’s a ballpark for this car?
Look at a cargurus listing for the same year, mileage and options. Take 10% off of that, then offer 25% of that number. So offer 22% of a fully running clean title listing from cargurus. Not a penny more.
Tires are meaningless, they can be replaced.
Suspension, top and who knows what other issues will cost you thousands.
It'll cost $10k to rebuild the suspension, $4k-6k for the top plus any cosmetic issues. Many interior parts are no longer made. Add another $5k for neglected maintenance. Maybe the owner should pay you to take the car. Or, better yet, spend $20k for one that's ready to go.
There are plenty of YouTube videos that show how to repair the issues you describe. If you plan to have a shop or MB dealer do the repairs then the numbers from the previous post are in the ballpark. I saw a 2003 that sold on ebay last July that was located in Chicago and was in the condition you describe. I think it sold for around $4K.
I think that’s about right, and while I would certainly like for him to pay me, I wouldn’t expect that. . I am certainly capable of fixing all of the issues, and live and die by the nothing as expensive as a cheap Mercedes just wondering what a fair price for both of us would be.
He has stated that he sunk around $7000 in it before the suspension went out and that was apparently the last straw. He was hoping to recoup close to that amount back, but it looks like I can buy a running one with about those miles for $3000 more, and the repairs in parts alone will more than likely exceed that. I just wanted a fair assessment as I know the person and would like to show him some educated thoughts on the current value of the car
$12k seems about the average list price for a 112k mile 2003 SL500 on cargurus.
The previous owner's investment and recent expenses on the car mean nothing.
Offer $2,000 and be willing to negotiate up to $2,500 if you really want the car. Then move $15k into an a separate bank account so you can start ordering parts.
You will then have almost $20k invested in an old high mileage Mercedes. Is this what you want?
Absolutely never what I want, but I have a 12,000 square foot building that’s full of these $2000 cars I have purchased and aren’t worth anything. All run and drive and drain my wallet and time.
Everything from cls55 sl55 e55 cayenne turbo, cts-v 997 turbo, and then there’s the ls swapped cars that range from a 94 c1500 short bed to a Datsun 240z , a 500sec with a blower to an sl600 r129 with a turbo lq4 6 liter.
Then you have a couple of 996 Porsche ls1 cars one with a twin turbo setup and one convertible automatic that my wife drives. My 17 year old son has an 81 380sl that has a transplanted 500 engine in it from the w126 500se I ls1ed as well. Throw a couple of late 60s firebird 400 and riviera, you have a fleet.
I am an absolute glutton for punishment and most times soend foolish, but not always. I should give all this stuff away and go buy a new car, but I would have nothing to do but drink beer and eat pizza. Anyway this one is for my son, we already bought a basket case r230 and this other one was presented to us and is in better condition than the first one. Trying to pass some of the skills and car purchasing foolishness on to the next generation.
The quickest/cheapest way to get the car back on the road is to abandon Active Body Control (ABC) and convert the suspension to coilovers.
For the best performance, you'll want a coilover kit that includes sway bars. The cheapest kits with sway bars use sway bars from european V6 models. The V6 sway bars are a bit light for a V8 car, but they are better than no bars at all. You can get a kit that has more robust sway bars that accomodate the increased weight of the V8 from VVK, but it is more expensive.
To a lot of Benz purists it's blasphemy to convert an ABC car to coilovers, but when you look at the cost of repairing an ABC system versus the value of the car and also consider the ongoing reliability of the suspension it really comes down to choosing between converting to coilovers or sending the car to the scrap yard.
I'm in agreement with previous posts - I don't think I'd bother with an SL500 with ABC problems and possible top problems unless you could get the car for nearly free. They're nice cars, but performance wise a little short on power for their weight. An SL55 or a V12 car (SL600/SL65) is definitely worth keeping on the road.
Fair value is about $4k, which is also more or less the salvage value of a complete car. I bought one last year for $4050 that just had a bad suspension line, one for $4500 with the top not working, and one for $4050 with a shifter issue. If you can work on the car yourself, odds are that a few hundred $'s will get the suspension and top fixed. A car 'on the ground' as you describe is usually a blown hydraulic line. While there are some expensive top repairs, odds are flap gears, a prox switch, or most likely a cylinder leak that has drained the pump. If you plan to buy it and take it to a Mercedes dealer for repair, just don't.
there are tons of other cars without these issues for not much more money. As a project car with you fixing everything - the idea has right to live. To fix it and drive it - does not worth it. I would not buy a complex car like this with issues from the get-go.
Agree with the advice the previous posters shared. However the numbers cited give no value to father son times together. How much value? Priceless I would argue.
Do you have DAS XENTRY? Could be really valuable in the issues diagnostic and repairs .
Every used R230 I have ever bought had some type of issue- even the ones I bought from the dealer. For example, it was either overlooked maintenance like fluids or some electronic issue that someone never tested. I bought an R230 from the dealer and the pulse button for one of the seats didn't work. Found out 30 days after I bought it. Also discovered the cd changer doesn't work. Luckily, this was a reputable dealer that fixed both issues for me for free.
Those are minor items- but the point I'm trying to make is that you won't catch EVERYTHING and even if you buy one for a little more money, be ready to spend some money to address items that may have been overlooked during the inspection process that normally aren't on the checklist
No matter who and where you buy it from, I highly advise you get the car inspected before you purchase. Car dealers usually do a safety inspection which doesn't address ABC leaks and other high end systems on that car. They do a visual inspection, change the oil and advertise it as perfectly healthy car.
Fair value is about $4k, which is also more or less the salvage value of a complete car. I bought one last year for $4050 that just had a bad suspension line, one for $4500 with the top not working, and one for $4050 with a shifter issue. If you can work on the car yourself, odds are that a few hundred $'s will get the suspension and top fixed. A car 'on the ground' as you describe is usually a blown hydraulic line. While there are some expensive top repairs, odds are flap gears, a prox switch, or most likely a cylinder leak that has drained the pump. If you plan to buy it and take it to a Mercedes dealer for repair, just don't.
Well $3000 bought it , let the money bleed! It’s got new rotors, new brake pump, tires from 2019 with 1200 miles on them, new rotors, brake pads, and a replacement passenger seat.
oh yeah new batteries and a newer shifter
Well $3000 bought it , let the money bleed! It’s got new rotors, new brake pump, tires from 2019 with 1200 miles on them, new rotors, brake pads, and a replacement passenger seat.
oh yeah new batteries and a newer shifter
Congrats. Let's see the pics! Keep us updated on the build/restoration.
Alright, towed the car back to the shop, and did the obligatory washing and vacuuming. At this point the car was sitting on the bump stops. My son got into the car and started it up and pushed the ride height button. At that point he put the car in drive and the front end shot right up. The back followed to full extend.
Moving the car around it didn’t go down or leak. Came in the next day and still fully extended and put the scanner on it. 7 codes on the suspension, all four level sensor faults, malfunction in pressure supply and a couple of others.
After clearing the codes, he started it up and pushed ride height buttons with it in reverse, and the car went to normal ride height. Backing it out of the shop the car started to raise and lower all four corners intermittently in gear and wouldn’t stop the rodeo. Pulling codes now have us critical vehicle level front left, malfunction in pressure supply.
Before backing the car out, we took the chf11s out of the reservoir and replaced it with new. The fluid is black and burned. What should I look for now,I have an extra tandem pump if I need one, but it seems the pump is working, but maybe not so much when it gets hot?
I would flush that bad fluid and replace the filter. You might get lucky and not need to replace the accumulators. Save the pump but replace the dampener located under driver front wheel. Pump replacement as a back up, not that hard but not that easy.
plenty of posts in the forums on how to perform these diys. Search is your friend.
Do you think a flush will stop the car from constantly lifting and lowering all corners ? It seems as the abc doesn’t know what level it needs to stay. I’m all for the flush, and certainly will do so. Probably need four gallons or so. It appears that these systems need coolers to lower the temps of the chf11s.
I guess the nice thing about the car lifting and lowering all corners is it’s easier to flush it’s doing all the work.
The levers on the ride height sensors are plastic and if one is broken, then proper ride height can't be determined, so I would check all 4 just to make sure they are all intact. Bad fluid (or improper fluid) can result in the system only going to max ride height. So a flush is definitely the 1st place to start. You could get lucky and it solves your issue. Luckily replacement ride height sensors can be had for about $25-$35.
5
I'm not sure what you have for diagnostics, but assuming that you can do ABC actuations, I would start with manual control of the control and blocking valves for each corner and make sure that each control valve is functioning properly and controlling the proper corner. One possibility is that the control valve wiring is switched, so this check will verify whether or not that is the case and also verify function of all eight valves.
If there are no problems with the control valves, check actual values of all of the acceleration sensors, level sensors, and strut travel sensors. Make sure that you are not getting random accelerations and that the level and strut values change properly with changes in level.
The launch x431 could manage to do the dynamic test, but not the individual ones. The dynamic test started in the left front went right front right rear and left rear. All actuations sermed to be identical. I pulled actual values and codes
The car still raised up snd down randomly when I’m gear. I don’t think this is a fluid issue, and while flushing it with $150 worth of chf11s would do it no harm, I would like to straighten out the root cause electronically.
It looks like the actual level sensor values and the actual level values aren’t correlating. The sensor voltages are high low high low for and the actual height read is low high high low
Possibly the right front sensor or plunge sensor is bad? Couldn’t get it up on either lift to check wiring or broken sensor arm. Whats the data point to?
1) Your pressure is low, but should be adequate for the vehicle to go to and stay on level. For example, the rodeo will pause if pressure drops below 100 bar to allow the system to recover.
2) Those values show a very low vehicle. Note that high voltages = low position on the LEFT side, low voltages = low position on the RIGHT side. Zero height should be around 2.5V, calibrated height is -4mm. Your level values indicate that the care is 1.5-3" low, depending on corner. If it has stock diameter tires, wheel well height should be about 27.5". A -76mm reading on the right front would be around 24.5".
3) Left front strut extension seems low for the position, but it might have shifted around between readings.
4) The C1525-7 code is critical vehicle level at all corners except the right rear, consistent with the height readings.
Do you have the 'Move to Calibrated Position' actuation? This should bring the vehicle to right around -4mm at all 4 corners. Does the car respond to the height switch? It should raise 1" between the normal position and the fully raised (2 leds) position. Normal height is -4mm, fully raised height is 21mm. However, the control is not real aggressive at getting to these levels exactly. Is there any chance that the car has a lowering module installed?
The height switch is what my son pushed when it was on the ground and it popped up to full extend abruptly. Not sure about the lowering module, where is that usually located? I haven’t looked at the actual data while the car is in drive, or physical level sensor arms, but the random lowering and raising baffles me. It happens quickly.
When I took these values the car looked to be at the correct ride height, or very close to it.
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