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The plumbing of struts together is different from what Porsche does with their anti-roll actuators. I need to learn more about what this new setup is. It sounds like it uses variable relief valves to maintain an adjustable pressure differential in the struts between the left and right sides of the car. This is simpler and more energy efficient than ABC.
There doesn't seem to be any ABC-like active dive or squat compensation, but the longer wheelbase should at least help reduce dive and squat a bit. The new multi-link front suspension should also help maintain optimal front wheel orientation during dive and squat. I feel less bad about the loss of ABC now.
Well, firstly you're discussing with actual buyers not "the public" man. Not sure when the last time you bought or owned an SL. I can say there is some thought given to MPG by a chunk of the SL market and S market as well seeing as there is no real idea where gas prices might go in the next couple years. It's not just an affordability issue for some, I wouldn't minimize it.
He brought up the general public and what they would think, not me so I'm not sure why you're telling me this. No one is worrying about MPG with a car like this, if they are they're shopping the wrong segment. These cars will never be fuel efficient, if that is your concern buy something geared towards that. Ridiculous argument man, it was never a selling point. I don't have to have bought an SL before, my BMW drinks gas with the best of them as does my "ancient" Mercedes. Nonsensical at best.
You’re right that a grand tourer is supposed to be a mix of sports car and luxury cruiser traits, and this is such a mix. My gripe with it is that it’s not very compelling / impressive in either role. Look at the 2003 SL55 - it had the performance of a contemporary 996 Turbo, was much more quiet and comfy, had a much nicer interior than the 996, and combined great body control with soft ride through ABC. It was a standout - a great sports car, and a great cruiser.
Now look at the new SL63 compared to modern competitors like the Porsche 992 (and even C8 Corvette now that their interiors have drastically improved). The rear seats are about the same size as a Porsche 992, suspension tech is the same as the 992 (conventional springs with adaptive dampers and active anti roll bars), interior quality is comparable to the 911 (Porsche interiors have improved a lot since the 996), and I don’t expect that much of a gap in road noise either (the Porsche 992 is much quieter and more refined than older ones). However, now the top of the line SL63 has the performance of a base 911 in the straights, and I don’t expect it to even be close in handling given the weight differential and loss of ABC.
After 19 years, R232 SL63 is a pretty marginal advancement over the R230 SL55 in acceleration, and a downgrade in ride and handling with the loss of ABC and weight gain. Meanwhile, the Porsche 911 has made massive leaps in performance and refinement since the 996, such that you get performance that wipes the floor with the R232 while still having comparable practicality, space, luxury, and refinement.
I still think the R232 interior is nicer than the Porsche 992, and the R232 will probably have its suspension tuned a bit softer, and a bit less interior noise, but the extent of those advantages over the 992 are much smaller than the extent of the R230’s advantages over the 996. Meanwhile, relative performance has dropped from 911 Turbo levels to base 911 levels.
EDIT: I see there is an option for air suspension on these. Adjustable spring rates (through air suspension) coupled with the active anti-roll bars could at least give the ride comfort of the old ABC system, albeit not quite the same level of body control in softer states. I’ll reserve my judgement on that suspension till I get to try one. The air suspension option and associated ability to get a really soft ride could be a compelling reason to consider this over a 911.
You don't know any of this yet. No one has driven this car yet. A GT car is a jack of all trades by design, it will never master any one thing. It's a car to seamlessly blend the best of a sports or sporty car and a luxury car. The SL has always done that well, even if it wasn't always pretty. You're already comparing it and no one has even driven it yet. It's an on paper comparison only. No one knows what the ride, road noise or anything will be yet. I'm not sure why but this board loves to speculate itself into an issue that doesn't exist.
Sadly its easier for people to type on the internet and complain. I for one am excited as I would never have considered an SL for the past 20+ years, but now I am already on my dealer's list for one of the first models to come to the store. I plan to test drive it extensively of course before any purchase though. Its clear that with this car MB is not targeting the same market, anyone who had an SL450 before probably wouldn't even consider this vehicle as its a different animal all together, its now an AMG and V8 only vehicle, and with that will cater to a different crowd. To those who don't want a new SL, oh well, I don't think MB will be losing sleep over them.
I too have wanted an SL since the R129 days, but the timing was never right. Then in 2012 the time came and my finalist were the 650i and the SL550. I couldn't pull the trigger on the SL with it looking like it did. Now after almost 10 years here is another new SL and I'm not sold it's looks either. It's heartbreaking for me. Yes the older demographic is fading and sales proved that. This SL will be a more focused GT car, but I still think the SL55 will be noticeably softer than the SL63 to keep some of the older buyers happy. I heard there was a I6 version also and I personally would love to see a SL53 with the 429hp I6, it wouldn't be as fast but lighter on it's feet. I can't wait until that day you all receive your cars and post pics here. I personally will have to see this new SL in person.
You don't know any of this yet. No one has driven this car yet. A GT car is a jack of all trades by design, it will never master any one thing. It's a car to seamlessly blend the best of a sports or sporty car and a luxury car. The SL has always done that well, even if it wasn't always pretty. You're already comparing it and no one has even driven it yet. It's an on paper comparison only. No one knows what the ride, road noise or anything will be yet. I'm not sure why but this board loves to speculate itself into an issue that doesn't exist.
M
Yeah, I take back some of my criticism after learning more about this car. I'll wait to see how it rides. The setup with hydraulic interconnection of struts with no anti-roll bar should achieve something at least similar to ABC, and the loss of active dive and squat compensation may be compensated for by the new multi-link front suspension, lower centre of gravity, and longer wheelbase.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Wolfman
The SL was a real sports car in its early days and turned into a comfy cruiser over the generations. Now that the car returns to its sportier roots there are many that bemoan that very change. Times change and preferences change and I believe that this move was essential for the SL to remain relevant. I have no doubt the car will sell; it is a proper competitor to a 911 cab.
Still very interesting and surprised to see what constitutes to be an "SL" for members here, it apparently isn't what Mercedes says the SL stands for.
Rather, the SL embodies equals whatever features people liked in the old models. Truly bizarre...
Well Wolf, you and I will never agree on this.
For the very first iteration, the 1955 (1954 really) to 1962 300SL’s, they were fabulous, high performance, sports cars for their day. Immediately after that, from 1963 until 2020–the AMG variants notwithstanding—the cars were basically very refined, comfy, luxury cruisers. 7 years of true sports cars vs FIFTY-SEVEN years of luxurious, boulevard cruisers. For those, such as myself, who have had SL’s for decades, MB has pulled the proverbial rug out from under us. Instead of improving the class of vehicle—a class they virtually OWNED—I feel they have effectively retired the SL—as most of us have come to know & love it—and replaced it with a softer AMG GT—a 4-seater, to boot!
I have owned eight SL’s, my first being a 1972 350SL. Every, single one has been a luxurious, refined, 2-seat, GT convertible car WITH a hardtop, that felt much more at home in the yacht club parking lot than at Willow Springs. THAT is the SL lineage. The original 300SL’s were something else all together.
To me, the new R232 is a SLINO: An SL in name only. It doesn’t carry on the tradition, it shuns it and for that, I am very sad.
I feel they have effectively retired the SL—as most of us have come to know & love it—and replaced it with a softer AMG GT—a 4-seater, to boot!
I have owned eight SL’s, my first being a 1972 350SL. Every, single one has been a luxurious, refined, 2-seat, GT convertible car WITH a hardtop, that felt much more at home in the yacht club parking lot than at Willow Springs. THAT is the SL lineage. The original 300SL’s were something else all together.
To me, the new R232 is a SLINO: An SL in name only. It doesn’t carry on the tradition, it shuns it and for that, I am very sad.
As you saw from the previous posts, I was initially quite skeptical of this car, for different reasons than yours, though @Germancar1 made a good point in that we don't know how these cars actually ride and handle. The interior still looks luxurious to me, and it has no anti-roll bars with an interesting hydraulic suspension setup that I'm curious to experience. It may well ride as nicely as ABC equipped cars. Likewise, I see no reason that this car needs to be any noisier inside than the R231, we'll see how it is once we get to drive it.
For the very first iteration, the 1955 (1954 really) to 1962 300SL’s, they were fabulous, high performance, sports cars for their day. Immediately after that, from 1963 until 2020–the AMG variants notwithstanding—the cars were basically very refined, comfy, luxury cruisers. 7 years of true sports cars vs FIFTY-SEVEN years of luxurious, boulevard cruisers. For those, such as myself, who have had SL’s for decades, MB has pulled the proverbial rug out from under us. Instead of improving the class of vehicle—a class they virtually OWNED—I feel they have effectively retired the SL—as most of us have come to know & love it—and replaced it with a softer AMG GT—a 4-seater, to boot!
I have owned eight SL’s, my first being a 1972 350SL. Every, single one has been a luxurious, refined, 2-seat, GT convertible car WITH a hardtop, that felt much more at home in the yacht club parking lot than at Willow Springs. THAT is the SL lineage. The original 300SL’s were something else all together.
To me, the new R232 is a SLINO: An SL in name only. It doesn’t carry on the tradition, it shuns it and for that, I am very sad.
Long live the R231’s!
Life would be boring without differences in preferences and opinions
Given how radically the markets are changing away from traditional cars to SUV's and from ICE to EV I am really happy that Mercedes decided to keep the SL alive even with low production volumes. I also appreciate that they tried to rethink of what an SL should be like in todays market. It may not be all you or I want but that's their provocative.
The AMG GT roadsters are the best looking convertibles Mercedes has built and there is nothing wrong to glean design elements from that, even if there is some wishful thinking for some unique retro-style SL; Mercedes doesn't do retro.
I believe the car will be a softer and more comfortable ride than the GT roadster, yet more powerful and agile than previous SL's (even if through the use of tech instead of weight reduction). It may not be the SL some people wish for (including me) but so far it looks like a great car.
And when it comes to tech and screens, everyone just needs to get used to it. This is only becoming more pervasive, not less...
For the very first iteration, the 1955 (1954 really) to 1962 300SL’s, they were fabulous, high performance, sports cars for their day. Immediately after that, from 1963 until 2020–the AMG variants notwithstanding—the cars were basically very refined, comfy, luxury cruisers. 7 years of true sports cars vs FIFTY-SEVEN years of luxurious, boulevard cruisers. For those, such as myself, who have had SL’s for decades, MB has pulled the proverbial rug out from under us. Instead of improving the class of vehicle—a class they virtually OWNED—I feel they have effectively retired the SL—as most of us have come to know & love it—and replaced it with a softer AMG GT—a 4-seater, to boot!
I have owned eight SL’s, my first being a 1972 350SL. Every, single one has been a luxurious, refined, 2-seat, GT convertible car WITH a hardtop, that felt much more at home in the yacht club parking lot than at Willow Springs. THAT is the SL lineage. The original 300SL’s were something else all together.
To me, the new R232 is a SLINO: An SL in name only. It doesn’t carry on the tradition, it shuns it and for that, I am very sad.
Long live the R231’s!
You continue to be so dramatic without having even experiencing the car yet lol.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Germancar1
You continue to be so dramatic without having even experiencing the car yet lol.
M
Seeing the car in person and driving it will not charge these facts:
1. No hardtop.
2. Two, useless rear seats.
3. A tiny trunk.
4. A huge, distracting, sometimes blinding touchscreen.
5. A wind screen that must be manually installed.
6. No interior wood trim.
Seeing the car in person and driving it will not charge these facts:
1. No hardtop.
2. Two, useless rear seats.
3. A tiny trunk.
4. A huge, distracting, sometimes blinding touchscreen.
5. A wind screen that must be manually installed.
6. No interior wood trim.
It's as if you can't comment adversely until you've driven the car. Material facts just don't matter.
Seeing the car in person and driving it will not charge these facts:
1. No hardtop.
2. Two, useless rear seats.
3. A tiny trunk.
4. A huge, distracting, sometimes blinding touchscreen.
5. A wind screen that must be manually installed.
6. No interior wood trim.
EXACTLY RIGHT...
Except you left out the weight as compared to our SL450. I thought they were designing a light weight vehicle. This is a heavy car as opposed to our 450. SL... Sport Light .... LIGHT. The 450 was not exactly light... but they added literally hundreds of pounds of weight to what the 450 weighs.
We were hoping for something different- more in line with a true real ROADSTER... and were hoping to someday pick up a nice pre-owned one when we heard about the AMG redesign. We will be keeping our 450.
Somebody said.... drive it first.... You don't have to drive something to tell that you don't like it and would not buy it. I don't have to drive a Hummer to know I would not buy one.
I could maybe maybe live with everything except the ragtop. I have owned three ragtop convertibles. Never again.. never.. one reason we bought the SL is the hardtop.
It's as if you can't comment adversely until you've driven the car. Material facts just don't matter.
+1 there is a vocal (whiny) cadre of posters in multiple sections of this site that suggest a car cannot be evaluated without owning and driving it. Rubbish.
+1 there is a vocal (whiny) cadre of posters in multiple sections of this site that suggest a car cannot be evaluated without owning and driving it. Rubbish.
Correct and some of them have never even owned or driven an SL.
Seeing the car in person and driving it will not charge these facts:
1. No hardtop.
2. Two, useless rear seats.
3. A tiny trunk.
4. A huge, distracting, sometimes blinding touchscreen.
5. A wind screen that must be manually installed.
6. No interior wood trim.
Bottom line is Mercedes needed to add space behind the front seats…call them rear seats if you want…to gain market share from Porsche. People use that space for kids, dogs, briefcases, shopping, etc. The figures don’t lie…in the US Mercedes sold less than 6,000 SLs and AMG GTs combined (which also appears to include the GT sedan) in 2019, while Porsche sold over 9,000 911s:
Once that decision was made, it had to be a soft top…no way to make it attractive otherwise. The trunk isn’t huge, but combined with the rear ‘seat’ space, it should be more than adequate…this will unlikely be an only vehicle for the demographic.
Touchscreens are unfortunately not going to get smaller or go away, ever.
None of that will change your mind about the car, but the alternative would have been no new SL at all. There is no business case for 1,690 US sales annually.
I agree that the manually deployed windscreen is odd and fragile looking, and I would have liked a wood trim option as well. I went with the piano black, even though it will attract scratches, fingerprints, and dust like crazy…can’t stand decorative carbon fiber, and the other two plastic choices look terribly cheap.
Last edited by Alan Smithee; 10-30-2021 at 02:09 PM.
I suggest Mercedes Benz could have completely re-worked the existing R231 platform using the same basic shell and made a much better car that would have been extremely appealing. In my opinion this would have been less of a gamble than aspiring to what they actually did, especially considering the research and development funds spent on this R232.
This is a slightly smaller BMW 8-series. It’s not an SL, which is supposed to be small.
Who’s with me? This is what I had imagined:
(1) Platform was already all-aluminum (state of the art)
(2) New body panels: Panamericana front grille, new headlights, make the rear-end exotic looking and not blah, more aggressive taillights, fenders, hood, etc
(3) Completely new interior including new generation AMG steering wheel, MBUX and new infotainment
(4) Rear-axle steering
(5) Performance enhancements: variants of the 4.0 Litre power plant with mild-hybrid capability, 9-speed MCT transmission, implementation of E-ABC with air springs
(6) Bring engine further back and possibly achieve front mid-engine
(7) Dynamic engine mounts
(8) New motors and pumps for convertible top for much faster opening and closing as well as capability to initiate while moving
(9) True S-class level quality inside
(10) Lighter car overall
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
Bottom line is Mercedes needed to add space behind the front seats…call them rear seats if you want…to gain market share from Porsche. People use that space for kids, dogs, briefcases, shopping, etc. The figures don’t lie…in the US Mercedes sold less than 6,000 SLs and AMG GTs combined (which also appears to include the GT sedan) in 2019, while Porsche sold over 9,000 911s:.
A Porsche is a Porsche, of course, of course, and no one can beat a Porsche of course, that is, of course, unless the Porsche is the famous NINE ELEVEN!”
MB can do whatever they want, but they will never really eat into 911 sales, at least not with this new SL. Just my opinion, but those who love 911’s, LOVE them and are not going to switch.
The reason the 2013-2020 SL’s sold so poorly, is because MB never gave them the attention they deserved. A fine example would be the audio systems. MB allowed both the HK and B&O systems to remain virtually unchanged, during the entire eight year run, even though they KNEW they were horrible from the get go. They made the absolutely sensational ABC suspension system optional, removing ride quality that was second to none and standard equipment on the previous generation of SL’s. The exterior styling of those cars was not optimal—some would say “odd,” and did not elicit a strong desire to own one by many who were not already SL fans. It’s like one guy designed the front end, another guy the midsection and another guy the front end. I love my SL, but mostly for how it drives, as It really isn’t a “sexy” car—which it very easily could have been, if MB hadn’t “phoned in” the design and then totally ignored it.
Last edited by Streamliner; 10-30-2021 at 03:33 PM.
The 231 has been consistently bashed for being sport light just on paper. The general upset was about how the SL line up has grown heavier with every generation. Now the 232 shows up with extra 220 lbs sans the hard top and the super moderator makes no squick about it. As if the MB marketing machine touting the star reborn and back to its roots slogans got to them. This is truly bizarre…
I doubt very very seriously that a full size golf bag will go in that trunk...probably not even a Sunday bag. I have not seen the trunk in person though and admit I could be mistaken. But the information I read with comparisons and specs sounds like it is not big enough for a set of clubs. Just my opinion..
The seats "can be used as additional stowage space and accommodate a golf bag, for example." Can't say Mercedes doesn't know its audience... With the roof up, there's 240 litres of boot space, dropping only to 213 with it stowed. Apparently, and we kid you not, "two golf bags fit perfectly" in that space. So those that really have to can carry three golf bags in the new SL, even with the roof down - good to know.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
I think I remember many years back when they designed the trunk in the then new Corvette model, SPECIFICALLY so it could carry two, regular sized golf bags full of clubs.
I think I remember many years back when they designed the trunk in the then new Corvette model, SPECIFICALLY so it could carry two, regular sized golf bags full of clubs.
I think that's why the current C8 has a really weird squared off rear end.
The exterior styling of those cars was not optimal—some would say “odd,” and did not elicit a strong desire to own one by many who were not already SL fans. It’s like one guy designed the front end, another guy the midsection and another guy the front end. I love my SL, but mostly for how it drives, as It really isn’t a “sexy” car—which it very easily could have been, if MB hadn’t “phoned in” the design and then totally ignored it.
You said it, not me…but the primary reason for the awkward styling is that folding hardtop.
Originally Posted by Streamliner
MB can do whatever they want, but they will never really eat into 911 sales, at least not with this new SL. Just my opinion, but those who love 911’s, LOVE them and are not going to switch.
I am about as diehard a 911 guy as there is…I always have and always will have one…but we also have a W113…and an R232 ordered because I couldn’t talk my wife into a new 911 (or Taycan). I think you are looking at it backwards…in a shrinking market segment, Porsche has maintained ~10,000 annual US 911 sales for over a decade, while the R231 went from 7,000 in 2013 to 1,690 in 2019. The 911 line has become bigger and more soft, catering to many of those turned off by the R231. Mercedes wants them back.
10-29-2021, 03:20 PM
