SL/R232: premiums when buying SL's off the lot
09-26-2022, 01:42 PM
#51
there will 100% be an impact but not sure how quick we return to the old days of walking into a dealership, having a large selection of colors, getting a discount and walking out with a new car. These dealers (and companies) have seen the difference and increases in their bottom line. I believe that inventory will stay scarce (either from chip shortage or artificially) so these companies can maintain their astronomical profit margins.
09-26-2022, 01:45 PM
#52
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Next year will provide a better picture of actual demand for the SL and hopefully there will be less restrictions on options. If sales are low, MB will likely bring the SL43 to the US sooner rather than later. The SL production line in Bremen can definitely handle volume.
The whole discussion of AMG buyers vs MB buyers is well known. Younger and wealthier across all model segments. The question here is wether the new SL being an AMG can actually benefit from this. Historically, all AMG SL models (63, 65) required the biggest discounts to be moved and suffered the highest depreciation. The only way to change this is if the R232 buyer demographic is indeed a different one than before. Even then, the coolness factor of the car must remain very high, otherwise this is short lived.
With the exception of the G-Wagon and a couple specific models, Mercedes never had any ADM-worthy vehicles before and I don't see that changing. Mercedes is not a niche manufacturer after all.
The whole discussion of AMG buyers vs MB buyers is well known. Younger and wealthier across all model segments. The question here is wether the new SL being an AMG can actually benefit from this. Historically, all AMG SL models (63, 65) required the biggest discounts to be moved and suffered the highest depreciation. The only way to change this is if the R232 buyer demographic is indeed a different one than before. Even then, the coolness factor of the car must remain very high, otherwise this is short lived.
With the exception of the G-Wagon and a couple specific models, Mercedes never had any ADM-worthy vehicles before and I don't see that changing. Mercedes is not a niche manufacturer after all.
09-26-2022, 05:45 PM
#53
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Next year will provide a better picture of actual demand for the SL and hopefully there will be less restrictions on options. If sales are low, MB will likely bring the SL43 to the US sooner rather than later. The SL production line in Bremen can definitely handle volume.
The whole discussion of AMG buyers vs MB buyers is well known. Younger and wealthier across all model segments. The question here is wether the new SL being an AMG can actually benefit from this. Historically, all AMG SL models (63, 65) required the biggest discounts to be moved and suffered the highest depreciation. The only way to change this is if the R232 buyer demographic is indeed a different one than before. Even then, the coolness factor of the car must remain very high, otherwise this is short lived.
With the exception of the G-Wagon and a couple specific models, Mercedes never had any ADM-worthy vehicles before and I don't see that changing. Mercedes is not a niche manufacturer after all.
The whole discussion of AMG buyers vs MB buyers is well known. Younger and wealthier across all model segments. The question here is wether the new SL being an AMG can actually benefit from this. Historically, all AMG SL models (63, 65) required the biggest discounts to be moved and suffered the highest depreciation. The only way to change this is if the R232 buyer demographic is indeed a different one than before. Even then, the coolness factor of the car must remain very high, otherwise this is short lived.
With the exception of the G-Wagon and a couple specific models, Mercedes never had any ADM-worthy vehicles before and I don't see that changing. Mercedes is not a niche manufacturer after all.
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HAWKiS63 (10-10-2022)
09-27-2022, 11:36 AM
#54
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The reason the car will sell better is that it is at the beginning of its lifecycle, is more upscale and should be better supported with marketing and brand management.
09-27-2022, 12:41 PM
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09-27-2022, 02:32 PM
#56
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I am not talking about the last 12 months but the 2018-20 Model years. All GT roasters in our 5 state area were discounted here but the best deals were in Cali through the years. We ended up buying the car in Orange County (MB of Foothill Ranch) and shipped it back. But there were great deals throughout the country...If anything, Scottsdale maybe a different story. We have friends in Scottsdale and remember stopping by MB of Scottsdale a number of years back. The W213 E63s just came out in late 2017 and asked about discounts and mentioned we get one discounted. Besides laughter I was told that me must be living in a poor area where dealers can't move AMG's at list price. A disappointing approach and surprising lack of knowledge; a dealer I would avoid for that reason alone.
Last edited by Wolfman; 09-27-2022 at 05:33 PM.
09-28-2022, 06:54 PM
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Autotrader now lists 334 SLs and I know of three that are not on there. That number keeps climbing.
Now I know that is probably not the correct number but I do bet the inventory is stacking up…….in areas.
Come on discounts!!
Now I know that is probably not the correct number but I do bet the inventory is stacking up…….in areas.
Come on discounts!!
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HAWKiS63 (10-10-2022)
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10-07-2022, 04:50 PM
#60
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There's a dealer in NJ of all places doing sticker on both SL55 and SL63s for local NJ residents only.
They have 2 left when I called last week. Called a few others in NY/NJ and most were $30k over sticker on these
They have 2 left when I called last week. Called a few others in NY/NJ and most were $30k over sticker on these
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BACnMercedes (10-10-2022)
10-10-2022, 09:00 PM
#63
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Ford and GM just got downgraded by UBS because of their “outlook.”
Dear Dealers: I’m sorry but your time of high profits on a single vehicle because of stupid people which tried to make us all pay more is coming to an end.
Dear Dealers: I’m sorry but your time of high profits on a single vehicle because of stupid people which tried to make us all pay more is coming to an end.
10-10-2022, 09:46 PM
#64
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Gents:
I recall a few predictions concerning discounts within the last few months. I further recall objections to my linking a "recession" with SL pricing. As mentioned in recent posts, ADMs are endangered species. It appears we are at the precipice of DISCOUNTS. Predictions of aforesaid discounts being years off were erroneous conclusions.......months at most, maybe weeks. Once again discipline pays off especially when buying a toy.
Mercedes questionable design decisions, limiting color options, useless rear "seats" and failure to ask previous SL buyers about their preferences will not yield a big seller.
I wonder if that offer to bet on discounts occurring is still valid........
I recall a few predictions concerning discounts within the last few months. I further recall objections to my linking a "recession" with SL pricing. As mentioned in recent posts, ADMs are endangered species. It appears we are at the precipice of DISCOUNTS. Predictions of aforesaid discounts being years off were erroneous conclusions.......months at most, maybe weeks. Once again discipline pays off especially when buying a toy.
Mercedes questionable design decisions, limiting color options, useless rear "seats" and failure to ask previous SL buyers about their preferences will not yield a big seller.
I wonder if that offer to bet on discounts occurring is still valid........
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places (10-11-2022)
10-11-2022, 11:31 AM
#65
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Gents:
I recall a few predictions concerning discounts within the last few months. I further recall objections to my linking a "recession" with SL pricing. As mentioned in recent posts, ADMs are endangered species. It appears we are at the precipice of DISCOUNTS. Predictions of aforesaid discounts being years off were erroneous conclusions.......months at most, maybe weeks. Once again discipline pays off especially when buying a toy.
Mercedes questionable design decisions, limiting color options, useless rear "seats" and failure to ask previous SL buyers about their preferences will not yield a big seller.
I wonder if that offer to bet on discounts occurring is still valid........
I recall a few predictions concerning discounts within the last few months. I further recall objections to my linking a "recession" with SL pricing. As mentioned in recent posts, ADMs are endangered species. It appears we are at the precipice of DISCOUNTS. Predictions of aforesaid discounts being years off were erroneous conclusions.......months at most, maybe weeks. Once again discipline pays off especially when buying a toy.
Mercedes questionable design decisions, limiting color options, useless rear "seats" and failure to ask previous SL buyers about their preferences will not yield a big seller.
I wonder if that offer to bet on discounts occurring is still valid........
So, yes the time of ADM is going the way of the dinosaur, however, I am not totally convinced about discount, that is, unless they are starting to ship MY23 in the near future - that of course would put great pressure on MY 22. However, the last time I looked we were not able to place orders for MY23 yet.
With regards to your comments on design and whatnot - I think that is very much in the eye of the beholder.
I do not have an SL background but rather AMG GTS and I think Mercedes has created an outstanding car that combines exceptional handling and performance with state of the art technology and yes, good looks. Yes, I could quibble about this, that or the other (especially the center i-pad) but on balance I think this car is an exemplary representative for Mercedes and AMG.
Personally, I wish they would have called it something other than SL, it would have avoided this whole comparison situation, because yes, on purpose and by design it is supposed to be a very different animal from both the world of SL and AMG GT - well, at least in my opinion.
I have driven the car now approximately 6 weeks, just completed the " run in" period and finally understand most of the technology. I may not like every bit of it but I understand it and I use what I want and ignore what I don't. Knock on wood, she has been totally trouble free and I am very much loving the experience,.
We are about to go down to Florida for the winter and I have to " tuck her in " until next year and I am already looking forward to enjoying to driving in the spring.
I will miss driving my new SL but I also look forward to driving my faithful 458 Spyder.
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10-11-2022, 01:27 PM
#66
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Tifoso48:
I basically agree with your position with the exception of "design" and discounts. My biggest dislikes are the vestigial rear seats.........worthless, why not just the old reliable parcel shelf?? My first SL was a 1986 560SL, I was 28yo.......the car had panache. The R129 had mass appeal and then began to tail off with the R230 and R231. Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last SL.
MB acts like only MB knows exactly what the consumer desires. I'd guess 80%++ think the rear seats are a mistake. I don't golf but the tiny trunk isn't a plus. The more expensive the toy, the more particular the client. Look at what Porsche offers in color selections compared to MB. I want a white exterior and blue soft top and interior.......without the fantasy upcharge.
Best regards
Mike
I basically agree with your position with the exception of "design" and discounts. My biggest dislikes are the vestigial rear seats.........worthless, why not just the old reliable parcel shelf?? My first SL was a 1986 560SL, I was 28yo.......the car had panache. The R129 had mass appeal and then began to tail off with the R230 and R231. Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last SL.
MB acts like only MB knows exactly what the consumer desires. I'd guess 80%++ think the rear seats are a mistake. I don't golf but the tiny trunk isn't a plus. The more expensive the toy, the more particular the client. Look at what Porsche offers in color selections compared to MB. I want a white exterior and blue soft top and interior.......without the fantasy upcharge.
Best regards
Mike
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mortgagemaster (10-15-2022)
10-11-2022, 05:13 PM
#67
Senior Member
One last thought/comment - regarding the rear seats.
I am not an insurance expert, however, I have been told that having rear seats, regardless of how practical they are lowers insurance premiums.
I exchanged my 2016 AMG GTS against a 2022 AMG SL63 and indeed my premium went down. Not by a lot but nevertheless it went down - same coverage - same location. Given the MSRP I would have expected the opposite.
I am not an insurance expert, however, I have been told that having rear seats, regardless of how practical they are lowers insurance premiums.
I exchanged my 2016 AMG GTS against a 2022 AMG SL63 and indeed my premium went down. Not by a lot but nevertheless it went down - same coverage - same location. Given the MSRP I would have expected the opposite.
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JSwan724 (10-19-2022)
10-11-2022, 06:39 PM
#68
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One last thought/comment - regarding the rear seats.
I am not an insurance expert, however, I have been told that having rear seats, regardless of how practical they are lowers insurance premiums.
I exchanged my 2016 AMG GTS against a 2022 AMG SL63 and indeed my premium went down. Not by a lot but nevertheless it went down - same coverage - same location. Given the MSRP I would have expected the opposite.
I am not an insurance expert, however, I have been told that having rear seats, regardless of how practical they are lowers insurance premiums.
I exchanged my 2016 AMG GTS against a 2022 AMG SL63 and indeed my premium went down. Not by a lot but nevertheless it went down - same coverage - same location. Given the MSRP I would have expected the opposite.
10-11-2022, 09:38 PM
#69
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One last thought/comment - regarding the rear seats.
I am not an insurance expert, however, I have been told that having rear seats, regardless of how practical they are lowers insurance premiums.
I exchanged my 2016 AMG GTS against a 2022 AMG SL63 and indeed my premium went down. Not by a lot but nevertheless it went down - same coverage - same location. Given the MSRP I would have expected the opposite.
I am not an insurance expert, however, I have been told that having rear seats, regardless of how practical they are lowers insurance premiums.
I exchanged my 2016 AMG GTS against a 2022 AMG SL63 and indeed my premium went down. Not by a lot but nevertheless it went down - same coverage - same location. Given the MSRP I would have expected the opposite.
I am thinking more about accident rates, driver demographics, vandalism, moving violations (speeding, etc.), daily driving (miles, locations, time of day) and theft. I imagine that rear seats take a back seat in those assessments
New models maybe cheaper due to missing data.
Last edited by Wolfman; 10-11-2022 at 09:40 PM.
10-15-2022, 07:18 PM
#70
Junior Member
SL's available in Dallas at MSRP
now that these are out, there are plenty around that have either been abandoned by their buyer for a variety of good reasons, or just not accounted for
Still running into the games tho. Just had one dealership say they won't provide the price over phone or email, only in person. and Playing the "AMG's are special cars that we don't sell for MSRP"
All signs point to the car industry being on the precipice of a big decline - demand is down, supply is finally working its way back. Repo rates are increasing rapidly, and use car rates are falling rapidly. At this point, anything over msrp is money lost forever - when you sell the car you aren't getting that back.
Any thoughts on that? what are people seeing?
Still running into the games tho. Just had one dealership say they won't provide the price over phone or email, only in person. and Playing the "AMG's are special cars that we don't sell for MSRP"
All signs point to the car industry being on the precipice of a big decline - demand is down, supply is finally working its way back. Repo rates are increasing rapidly, and use car rates are falling rapidly. At this point, anything over msrp is money lost forever - when you sell the car you aren't getting that back.
Any thoughts on that? what are people seeing?
10-18-2022, 12:57 PM
#71
Hadn't seen one in person since the launch last year but the Local Ferrari/Maser dealer has a black SL63 sitting in their used lot so I swung by to take a look. TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS....
The MSRP price of the SL already puts it at a disadvantage, but that's just absurd. Honestly at this point I cannot wait for dealers to go the way of the dinosaur.
The MSRP price of the SL already puts it at a disadvantage, but that's just absurd. Honestly at this point I cannot wait for dealers to go the way of the dinosaur.
10-18-2022, 01:43 PM
#72
Member
Reality is setting in quickly......I see discounts soon! The Brandon economy does have a few benefits
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places (10-18-2022)
10-18-2022, 05:54 PM
#73
This reminds me of a funny story when I bought a 2019 S550 cab. No dealer was willing to discount ore than 5%. I ended up finding one in Des.Moines that was a special order and cancelled. The car sat for over a year and they couldn’t move it. I ended up buying it for 25% off!! (I miss that car).
Last edited by mkraft3003; 10-18-2022 at 05:58 PM.
10-18-2022, 08:12 PM
#74
Senior Member
10-18-2022, 11:28 PM
#75
After my 1K break-in, I can say that the M8 Competition was a little faster also with less turbo lag. The M8's 0-60 of 2.5 seconds and the 1/4 mile at 10.7/129 is pretty bold. The upcoming hybrid SL63 should fix this.
The SL63 sounds much better due to the generally muffled sound that the M8 had. However, the SL63 would kill the M8 on anything other than a straight line. The active suspension is amazing as well as the active aero, but being 6" shorter and a few hundred pounds lighter makes a huge difference too, It corners better than any car I have had, even the Z06.
The SL63 sounds much better due to the generally muffled sound that the M8 had. However, the SL63 would kill the M8 on anything other than a straight line. The active suspension is amazing as well as the active aero, but being 6" shorter and a few hundred pounds lighter makes a huge difference too, It corners better than any car I have had, even the Z06.
