SLKV12TT

In another thread someone stated "real" sports cars no longer have manual transmissions. Really? Is AMG largely responsible for this perception in the German car community? Surely they're not helping matters. Imagine how much fun an SLK55 or SL65 would be with a six speed manual. Sadly, AMG has no plans to build manual transmissions. WHy? Apparently the average Joe buying a Merc doesn't want a manual, at least that's what AMG believes. Is this true? What do you Merc owners think? Is the typical AMG owner a lazy middle aged bloak who wouldn't know a clutch from a brake pedal? Is AMG right?

IMO, Real sports cars have manual transmissions. The word "sport" has been largely lost, along with the skills of shifting, matching engine speed to drivetrain speed, heel and toe leg action, etc. Once upon a time driving fast took skill. Now we have traction control and automatic transmissions in this world of "Driving for Dummies". Now, any chick who can hit a big old brake pedal and gas pedal and turn a power assisted steering rack can drive anything. (No offense to women, but try driving a Ferrari Daytona! You need muscles to shift the car, muscles to activate the clutch and muscles to turn the wheel. It took SKILL to drive fast in the old days. Now, computers do all the hard work. Where is the "sport" in that?

Perhaps Road and Track put it well when reviewing the lastest 911 Twin Turbo. (I, by the way, have an "old" 993 Cabriolet with a custom built twin turbo and an old fashioned six speed manual transmission).

R&T tested the Porsche Turbo automatic and manual transmissions side by side:
"We know the automatic car is faster, but we still don't like it. We continue to prefer the traditional method of making a car go fast and hope the art of driving isn't lost."

You want to go fast without driving skill? Go ride a European high speed rail which will cruise at over 200 mph! You want fun? Get a sports car that involves the driver!

AMG! Are you listening? The ultimate driving machine you do not build and we want it! Come on folks, if you want manual transmission option let your dealers hear it!

mark anderson

In my opinion non of the AMG line is a true sports car. They are wonderful cars that have a sporty feel and one that best suites my needs. My SL55 would need alot more than just a manual trans to become a sports car. First off it needs to drop 1k lbs but if that's what I was looking for I would not have bought it.
I'm happy just the way it is.

sprins

I'm very happy with the autobox. The AMG concept suits me just fine. I drive stick every now and then and I find it tedious. And no, I don't do track days. I blast over the Autobahn or cruise over the boulevard.

Want a track car? Get a Lotus or something. Not an AMG with heated seats and Logic7 stereo's.

Just my opinion

Sidez

Mercedes Benz and Sport in the same sentece? Say again? Mercedes Benz were never inteded to be anything near a sports car.. they are grand tourers which is now a class of it's own. If u want a true sports car go for the Lotus Elise and if thats too weak for you, the Dodge Viper SRT-10, and if thats too cheap for you the Ferarri F430 or the Gallardo.

Cars like SL, Continental GT, and the Aston Martin DB9 or Vanquish, were never designed for the sports enthusiasts or people who track their cars hard, They were made for the rich people with style that want to drive fast, and in comfort, not much else.

Again I have to say that AMG is doing the right thing and manuals do not belong in their cars.

Thats my 2 cents
-Sidez

Keng1

Hmmm what a load of crock. Isnt the new Porsche Turbo faster in the automatic? I think that if you want to live in the 'yester'-years about what a sports car is all about, go buy a classic. Back then, there was neither the technology nor the horses we are talking about today. I dont think you can pull one attribute and make the conclusion about what a sports car is all about.

With that same logic on showing how much muscle it takes, you should throw away all your power tools since any chick can now do home improvement stuff too.

BiTurboAmg

I have never thought of my amg's as sports cars, and I dont think many people do. I talked to one of the tuners I use and he flat out said "your not a sports car guy". The reason he said this is because I want a car to have power seats, ac, nav, leather etc and to him that is not a "true" sports car. I think the amg line is great and have no problem with it but lets face it the minute we had the fold down hard top in the sl nothing was going to make this car a sports car. For most buyers out there they complain about a car that is hard to get in and out of, a car that is too hot on the inside or the car rides to hard or the engine is to loud etc. Hell look at the new z06 even they have tried to soften the car up with nav, push button start etc. Even porsche added nav as an option to the gt3 of all cars and the gallardo has it now as well. There is a trend for buyers to want it all and amg is as close as you can get in my eyes.

ShelleE55

+1 from a chick w a hammer

SLKV12TT

Well then. There's my answer. Merc and its "sport" division, AMG, do not build sports cars. They build big heavy fast cruisers. Hmmmmm. Perhaps this explains why a $200k SL65 is worth $120k a year later? Perhaps this explains why old "classics" are classics. Reality is every year fast cars get faster. But reality is they do not necessarily improve on the "drving experience". Drive an old classic car, beit an MG or a Ferrari Dino or an old V12 Lambo and you have a true driving experience. Drive a fast mercedes and next year's model will be better and last year's will simply be out of date, never a classic. So, if an SL600 is a boulevard cruiser, why make an SL65 or an SLK55 if they are not to be "sports cars".

IMO, the mark of a good design is one that is both beautiful, works, you can drive every day but also is sporty and fun. If an SL65 weighed say 3600 pounds and had a six speed manual, what with its massive breaks and solid frame, I bet Merc would have a true Ferrari challenger. But then again, I guess that's not what Merc buyers want.

So then, AMG is doing everything right. We want 4500 pound automatic cruisers. Yes?

SuperDave

Is a Formula 1 car or Indy car, which shifts via steering wheel/paddles, not a Sports Car???

Are all Ferrarris and Lambos and Mazzzzzer-a-ties equipped with a Manual foot Clutch????



When I bought my -55, I wanted a Distinctive Sports Car, and when I first looked at my -55 that day I found it, all I knew was that I was looking at what I really wanted.................

It really does not matter what Line-of-Demarcation you use to determine what a "True" Sportscar is or should be..............................there remains one Inescapable Fact....

The SL-55 is one Incredible Car. That was/is reason enuf for me.

(If I really want pure street-speed/thrust and Top End........there sits the Turbo-Hayabusa..........475 RWHP on the street, (on 112 Sunoco) and 365 RWHP on 93/pump.......Power to weight is about 1 HP for every 1 and 2/3 lbs at the 475 setting.......even with me on the bike...., (hard to find a street car like that.)



The SL-55

Germancar1

AMG is NOT responsible for the death of the sports car. For one the only AMG model that could even be remotely considered a true "sports car" is the SLK55 AMG, and it is still more of a mini-GT than sports car.

Secondly, Mercedes is luxury car brand, not a sports car brand like Porsche.

The only AMG models that would benefit from a manual are the SLK55 and outgoing C55 and new C63. The E, SL, CL, CLS, S, and other AMG cars are no different from cars like the RS6, XJR....the only excepts are the Maserati Quattroporte and M5 that offer a true manual so Mercedes is really no different.

I can't see anyone buying a SL55 wanting to shift their own gears, its a GT car not a 911.

What Mercedes could use in their upper end AMG cars like the SL55 is a dual-clutch gearbox that gives true manual control with seamless automatic mode (which is where most are going to leave it anyway) operation. The SLK and C AMG models could use it too, along with a traditional manual. Maybe the CLK63 could use a manual too, but the SL, CL, CLS, E nah...no market for it.

M

sprins

Tuskir

Why does it have to be manual VS automatic? What AMG needs is a clutchless manual like F1, DSG, or SMG. Best of both worlds....

C43AMG

Hmmmm............................. see my sig.

blkamgsl55

Leave the shifting to the 18 wheelers. After driving solely stick shift cars until I was 57 you couldn't give me one. Unless you are very proficient with a stick shift the automatic will outperform most stick shift drivers under almost all conditions.

DFW01E55

It's not often that you see one idea unite so many different people.

SLKV12TT, you must feel rather alone - at least with this line of thought.

Vadim @ FD

There is a fantasy and reality.

In fantasy, all of us want go 10/10 in every corner, smartly matching the revs and having the blond in passenger seat giggle as her skirt.................. oh never mind.

So we want to own the road and cut through apex like a hand up............ damn, arghhhh..............

Where is the wife when you need her....

What I am saying is unless we are on the track or deserted canyon road, using all of manual's benefits it is not feasible nor many time possible.

In reality, we sit in traffic 90% of our driving time, with our phone to the left ear and our right hand to the skirttttttttttttttt........................

Damn...............

Honey I am coming home in my automatic C32.....................

Jakpro1

Good enough for Formula One, good enough for me.

Formula One cars use semi-automatic sequential gearboxes with six or seven forward gears and one reverse gear. The driver signals gear changes using paddles mounted on the back of the steering wheel and electro-hydraulics perform the actual change as well as throttle control. Clutch control is also performed electro-hydraulically except from and to a standstill when the driver must operate the clutch using a lever mounted on the back of the steering wheel. By regulation the cars use rear wheel drive. A modern F1 clutch is a multi-plate carbon design with a diameter of less than four inches (100 mm), weighing less than a kilogram and handling 900 horsepower (670 kW) or so.
Variable shift gearboxes have been long banned, thus creating heated contension in the introduction of the new seamless shift gearbox, which eliminate the split-second loss of drive during a gear change. The ultimate advantage of this is said to be from five to ten seconds over a complete race distance, which is a significant gain when races are sometimes only won by three or less seconds.

mclarenm8d

Based on this information, I can surmise that you don't know how to speed up the downshifts of an electronically controlled auto box.

But on a serious note, I'm convinced that the reason most car companies are moving away from pure manual transmissions even in what are considered the remaining "pure" sports cars is that so few people know how to shift properly. Consequently, from a warranty support perspective, it is actually simpler and cheaper for a car company to support a relatively bullet-proof automatic than deal with the hassle of replacing clutches and manual trannies that break too soon.

Just off the top of my head, recent snafu's that come to mind are the struggles GM had with C5 Corvettes and Audi had with the 2.7T S4/A6.

SLKV12TT

Vadim @ MBLN all I can say is

SLKV12TT

I think you may have something there mclarenm8d. Warranty issues and an ever dumbing down automobile driver may in fact have much to do with it.

For me, snicking through the gated shifter on my Ferrari provides an immense sense of satisfaction unlike anything I get from a paddle shift.

The F1 comparison is simply nonsense. In F1 millions of dollars are spent to make a car go fast so it can win a race. The car is not built for enjoyment! It is built for one purpose only. To win the race. A Ferrari 355 with a capristo sounds pretty darn near like an F1 car but driving a paddle shifter compared to a manual box is not nearly as much fun. As Road & Track pointed out, the automatic transmission may be quicker but the manual shifter is fun.

Yup. We're soon approaching the day where we don't even drive our cars. We get on the highway and jump in a line where computers take over. No, this is not science fiction but something comming probably pretty soon (decade or two?).

Properly tweaked, an SLK55 or even an SL65 could be made to be true sports cars, IMO.

IngenereAMG

I am so tired of hearing this argument. I have both manual gearboxes, F1/SMG and autoboxes...and they are ALL sportscars. They each have their pluses and minuses. I have run away from more of my Fcar friends at the track and mtn roads with the SL55 than I can remember. I have also never driven the SL in the auto mode....if you do that, it actually learns your shifting patterns and shifts quickly (like a manual).

Don't get me wrong, I love clacking through that silly Ferrari gate, and there is nothing like a great double clutch downshift, but this technology requires a certain skill set to get the most out of the package. Where as the SMG/F1/Auto paddle shift boxes require a different skill set. With this package I drive them like a go kart. I left foot brake and bang through the gears with the paddles. Would I like a lighter SL....sure I would......AMG is making the 'Black Series' to address that need.

As much as I hate to admit it, over a given stretch of road I will be quicker with the paddle shift cars (and I am pretty good with the third pedal, and I am an instructor for the FCA). The paddle shift and the driver aids can actually enhance the experience rather than hinder it (In the M3 its better turned off). The safety nets can actualy be used to pitch and control the cars......if you have the right skill set.

Both types of cars are brilliant, but I disagree with you that because AMG uses an auto that they are killing the sportscar...and I take offense to being called a fat, lazy middle aged cruiser because I have an SL55. I am sure the GT3 driver who I easily abused on a road course with the SL had second thoughts about thinking that......

DFW01E55

Swap cars, who gets abused? The weaker driver.

Equal drivers, what happens? The car best suited for the road course - not the SL.

Get some video of whackin' those P-cars, it helps people to be humbled now and then.

IngenereAMG

That's not the point. The point is that the SL55 is more than competent as a sports car. One just has to know how to exploit it.

The last time I took it on an Fcar drive, I left 30mins late with one of my students in the left seat as he wanted to see some corner carving. We met the group about 70 miles up the road at a rest area. I asked them how long they had been waiting for us, and they told us that they just pulled in. My passenger was amazed at the abilities of the SL55

BoBcanada

IF you want true sports car for the money you go out and buy a z06!

exit2Ek

no offense to your comment but mb is having less problems with their new manual trans on the 350 motors than their far from "bullet proof" 7 speed auto. its a good tranny aside from all the bugs mb forgot to remove prior to releasing it.