SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: new brake pads by AMG to prevent squeaking
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2002
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Originally posted by White Knight II
So would somebody (with 5 spoke wheels) please go outside and look?
So would somebody (with 5 spoke wheels) please go outside and look?
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2003
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SL55
Originally posted by Lucas
Roland, your technical skills really scares me
.
You simply eat everything AMG tell you raw.
It's a fact that all MB / AMG ventilated discs are cheap crap, you buy such an expensive car, and they will not even invest in a left and right disc.
Matoy are 110% right here, look at the ventilation holes on your own car, the holes point to the front on one side and to the rear at the other side. Only 1 disc is working the right way, the holes have to point to the rear on both sides to work right.
Next time you see a Porsche 996 TT or something like it ( maybe a KLEEMANN car ) you can see how real brake discs should look like.
The fantastic AMG engineers have worked hard on the new brakes on all the new 55 kompressor cars, they simply took the brakes from MB 600 bi-turbo and changed the sticker from " MERCEDES-BENZ " to " AMG ".
AMG brakes are not made for track use. PERIOD.
Roland, your technical skills really scares me
.You simply eat everything AMG tell you raw.
It's a fact that all MB / AMG ventilated discs are cheap crap, you buy such an expensive car, and they will not even invest in a left and right disc.
Matoy are 110% right here, look at the ventilation holes on your own car, the holes point to the front on one side and to the rear at the other side. Only 1 disc is working the right way, the holes have to point to the rear on both sides to work right.
Next time you see a Porsche 996 TT or something like it ( maybe a KLEEMANN car ) you can see how real brake discs should look like.
The fantastic AMG engineers have worked hard on the new brakes on all the new 55 kompressor cars, they simply took the brakes from MB 600 bi-turbo and changed the sticker from " MERCEDES-BENZ " to " AMG ".
AMG brakes are not made for track use. PERIOD.
Let's hope these cars never meet the fatal accidents, if that happens, I suppose the lawyers of insurance companies have some serious questions to AMG about their knowledge of brake cooling theory!
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 284
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From: Munich, Germany
Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R 230) and CLK 55 (W 209)
Originally posted by Lucas
Roland, your technical skills really scares me .
You simply eat everything AMG tell you raw.
It's a fact that all MB / AMG ventilated discs are cheap crap, you buy such an expensive car, and they will not even invest in a left and right disc.
Matoy are 110% right here, look at the ventilation holes on your own car, the holes point to the front on one side and to the rear at the other side. Only 1 disc is working the right way, the holes have to point to the rear on both sides to work right.
Next time you see a Porsche 996 TT or something like it ( maybe a KLEEMANN car ) you can see how real brake discs should look like.
Roland, your technical skills really scares me
.You simply eat everything AMG tell you raw.
It's a fact that all MB / AMG ventilated discs are cheap crap, you buy such an expensive car, and they will not even invest in a left and right disc.
Matoy are 110% right here, look at the ventilation holes on your own car, the holes point to the front on one side and to the rear at the other side. Only 1 disc is working the right way, the holes have to point to the rear on both sides to work right.
Next time you see a Porsche 996 TT or something like it ( maybe a KLEEMANN car ) you can see how real brake discs should look like.
BTW, they also tested an SL with the big Porsche brakes (380 mm discs) which produced worse results.
I don't care if you like the AMG brakes or not. If you have a problem with their design, call up AMG and take it up with them directly: 07144 / 302 - 0
On my SL 55 and CLK 55, they work just fine.
AMG brakes are not made for track use. PERIOD.
However, since yesterday the Formula 1 Saftey Car brakes are officially available through AMG as well as a special oil cooler and bodykit:
http://www.amg-owners-club.org/board...adid=1127&sid=
Knock yourself out.
Ronald
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From: troyes, france
ML 320 CDI
Ronald, concerning the brabus brake system, I agree that the 12 pistons are certainly here for the show but the french magazine "sport auto" had better result with them than with the AMG standard system (the brabus system was tested on a K8).
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Munich, Germany
Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R 230) and CLK 55 (W 209)
Originally posted by Paul Le Corre
Ronald, concerning the brabus brake system, I agree that the 12 pistons are certainly here for the show but the french magazine "sport auto" had better result with them than with the AMG standard system (the brabus system was tested on a K8).
Ronald, concerning the brabus brake system, I agree that the 12 pistons are certainly here for the show but the french magazine "sport auto" had better result with them than with the AMG standard system (the brabus system was tested on a K8).
Anyway, the Safety Car brake for the SL 55 will probably easily outperform the Brabus brake for a fraction of the cost.
Ronald
Last edited by Ronald; Apr 1, 2003 at 06:37 AM.
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From: troyes, france
ML 320 CDI
They didn't tellwhat kind of test they make but it's more an overall results based on differents things (stop distance, feeling during a long ride...)
The SL 55 AMG F1 brake system, designed for the track, is certainly better but I have two question about that
-How many $$?
-will it be avalaible all over europe, or is it a german only option?
For example, the Cl 55 F1 with ceramic brake was not available in france ( I asked the question to the french MB website).
The SL 55 AMG F1 brake system, designed for the track, is certainly better but I have two question about that
-How many $$?
-will it be avalaible all over europe, or is it a german only option?
For example, the Cl 55 F1 with ceramic brake was not available in france ( I asked the question to the french MB website).
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 284
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From: Munich, Germany
Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R 230) and CLK 55 (W 209)
Originally posted by Paul Le Corre
-How many $$?
-will it be avalaible all over europe, or is it a german only option?
-How many $$?
-will it be avalaible all over europe, or is it a german only option?
Ronald
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Senior Member
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From: Munich, Germany
Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R 230) and CLK 55 (W 209)
Originally posted by Lucas
the fact is still that one rotor is facing the wrong way
the fact is still that one rotor is facing the wrong way
Ronald
Last edited by Ronald; Apr 1, 2003 at 03:46 PM.
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Roland
Lets try and cut it out in paper for you and see if this helps.
If the spare part number is the same for L/R rotor = 1 side must be wrong. ( and they are )
If the cross drilled holes in the rotors points forward on one side and backwards on the other side = 1 side must be wrong.
( and they do ).
Sumasumarum = 1 rotor takes the air from the outside and into the center, the other takes the air from the center and out
( which is right and the holes point backwards ).
Roland, you must be able to do better than this or you should call somebody who knows something about brakes instead of that floor sweeper you talk to at AMG.
Lets try and cut it out in paper for you and see if this helps.
If the spare part number is the same for L/R rotor = 1 side must be wrong. ( and they are )
If the cross drilled holes in the rotors points forward on one side and backwards on the other side = 1 side must be wrong.
( and they do ).
Sumasumarum = 1 rotor takes the air from the outside and into the center, the other takes the air from the center and out
( which is right and the holes point backwards ).
Roland, you must be able to do better than this or you should call somebody who knows something about brakes instead of that floor sweeper you talk to at AMG.
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2003
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SL55
Dear Ronald,
As I understand, you have good relationship to AMG, could you please to ask their engineers, HOW THEY EXPLAIN THE RIGHT SIDE ROTORS ARE NOT WRONG INSTALLED, AGAINST THE LAWS OF PHYSICS!
We really have to know, what we answer to the people who ask the same from us, the owners of these high performance sports cars.
I really don't want to be 'red faced' any more for trying to tell Subaru Works Rally Team engineers, that may be AMG has found the laws of physics wrong.
Please print AMG's reply on this forum "BLACK ON WHITE" so we can stop this talk!!!
Regards, KM
As I understand, you have good relationship to AMG, could you please to ask their engineers, HOW THEY EXPLAIN THE RIGHT SIDE ROTORS ARE NOT WRONG INSTALLED, AGAINST THE LAWS OF PHYSICS!
We really have to know, what we answer to the people who ask the same from us, the owners of these high performance sports cars.
I really don't want to be 'red faced' any more for trying to tell Subaru Works Rally Team engineers, that may be AMG has found the laws of physics wrong.
Please print AMG's reply on this forum "BLACK ON WHITE" so we can stop this talk!!!
Regards, KM
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: San Francisco
Can't somebody who has an SL55 with 5-spoke wheels just go outside and LOOK?
You guys sound like a bunch of medieval philosophers debating whether or not birds have teeth. Sooner or later someone is going to cite Aristotle - every other authority has been mentioned; why not him?
You guys sound like a bunch of medieval philosophers debating whether or not birds have teeth. Sooner or later someone is going to cite Aristotle - every other authority has been mentioned; why not him?
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Posts: n/a
Lucas, dude, you can't even speel Ronald. 
and chill guys, Ronald, is the only guy I know on any board that can give you so much info in a second, for nothing. Don't you think he minds people asking him is this possible? or can I do this? jeeze the guys has a life, he is not paid to be an AMG spokesman, even though he would make a good one.
Whiteknight, I couldn't agree more, i think Isacc said it best "for every action there is an equal and opposie reaction", this theory when applied correctly suggests, that when the brakes are pressed, there is another force acting against the force of the brake caliper, which means....
Im just being a dic*.
Everyone else just cool it, don't make me get the hose...
and chill guys, Ronald, is the only guy I know on any board that can give you so much info in a second, for nothing. Don't you think he minds people asking him is this possible? or can I do this? jeeze the guys has a life, he is not paid to be an AMG spokesman, even though he would make a good one.
Whiteknight, I couldn't agree more, i think Isacc said it best "for every action there is an equal and opposie reaction", this theory when applied correctly suggests, that when the brakes are pressed, there is another force acting against the force of the brake caliper, which means....
Im just being a dic*.
Everyone else just cool it, don't make me get the hose...
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 284
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From: Munich, Germany
Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R 230) and CLK 55 (W 209)
Originally posted by Bilal
Everyone else just cool it, don't make me get the hose...
Everyone else just cool it, don't make me get the hose...
Here is my last post regarding this topic:
For every job at AMG, there are 200+ applications from within Mercedes-Benz. So, AMG has the luxury to pick the best of the best, which they do and are very proud of.
Do you really think the ultra-conservative company AMG would have mounted the brake discs the way they are if it would mean a worse performance or even pose a seurity risk? Not to mention to pass the Mercedes-Benz test catalogue (which is one of the toughest in the automobile industry).
I mentioned your concers to the appropriate engineers at AMG and even showed them this thread. Unfortunately, my english (or better: my vocabulary) is not good enough to explain to you in detail why you don't have to worry.
But if you think you know better, please, for the sake of all SL 55 drivers, call up AMG and talk to the responsible engineer directly. Who knows, maybe AMG will be thankful to you for pointing something out that they missed.
Tel. 07144 / 302 - 0
Like Bilal said: I'm not affiliated with AMG or any company in the automobile industry. I am a regular customer who spends a lot of his time and money supporting other AMG customers and fans around the world. And as long as I feel welcome, I will continue to do so here.
In my opinion, we should direct our energy to more important projects like the foundation of an AMG Owners Club US / Canada or pushing MBUSA towards offering more AMG products in North America (S / SL / CL 65, Manufaktur products,...).
Everyone, have a nice weekend. I'm off to Spa Franchorchamps to enjoy my AMG on one of the most beautiful race tracks.
Ronald
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Posts: 443
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'03 S55 (79K miles)
Vacuum cleaner analogy...
Another way to look at this...
When the rotor pictured at the top of page 2 rotates in a Counter-clockwise direction(as it would going forward if mounted on the left side of the car) air would get sucked in through the holes in the face of the rotor and get forced out the vents at the circumference due to centrifugal forces.
If this same rotor spins in the opposite direction, as it would if mounted on the right side of the car, the air would get scooped into the vents on the outer edge and be forced toward the center of the rotor and out the holes in the face.
Just like a vacuum cleaner with a reversible motor:
Counter-clockwise= sucks
Clockwise = blows
They both move air, but I believe sucking is better at higher speeds, so to speak...ahem. And therefore, the right side of the car should have rotors with internal vents that point the other way.
So if MB-AMG thinks that the cooling efficiency and safety margin between sucking and blowing is negligible for the daily driver, they can stock one type of rotor for both sides.
Is that what they are really doing?
By the way, the pattern of the holes don't matter as much as the direction of the vanes inside the rotor.
(Ronald: I'm not putting you up to asking AMG again. I'm just trying to explain the physics of it.)
When the rotor pictured at the top of page 2 rotates in a Counter-clockwise direction(as it would going forward if mounted on the left side of the car) air would get sucked in through the holes in the face of the rotor and get forced out the vents at the circumference due to centrifugal forces.
If this same rotor spins in the opposite direction, as it would if mounted on the right side of the car, the air would get scooped into the vents on the outer edge and be forced toward the center of the rotor and out the holes in the face.
Just like a vacuum cleaner with a reversible motor:
Counter-clockwise= sucks
Clockwise = blows
They both move air, but I believe sucking is better at higher speeds, so to speak...ahem. And therefore, the right side of the car should have rotors with internal vents that point the other way.
So if MB-AMG thinks that the cooling efficiency and safety margin between sucking and blowing is negligible for the daily driver, they can stock one type of rotor for both sides.
Is that what they are really doing?
By the way, the pattern of the holes don't matter as much as the direction of the vanes inside the rotor.
(Ronald: I'm not putting you up to asking AMG again. I'm just trying to explain the physics of it.)
Senior Member
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From: Munich, Germany
Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R 230) and CLK 55 (W 209)
Re: Vacuum cleaner analogy...
Originally posted by GrepAwk
(Ronald: I'm not putting you up to asking AMG again. I'm just trying to explain the physics of it.)
(Ronald: I'm not putting you up to asking AMG again. I'm just trying to explain the physics of it.)
Ronald
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GrepAwk
The vacuum cleaner explanation is not bad, it will be exactly the same if a turbocharger or compressor are turned the wrong way,
then the air will also travel the oposit direction.
Ronald says that AMG has good explanation for that and if you fit the rotors right, they will work right. Very clever guy at AMG I must say.
1 sparepart number for left and right side tells it all, the holes are drilled after the vanes inside, so the pattern of the holes is a perfect guideline.
The vacuum cleaner explanation is not bad, it will be exactly the same if a turbocharger or compressor are turned the wrong way,
then the air will also travel the oposit direction.
Ronald says that AMG has good explanation for that and if you fit the rotors right, they will work right. Very clever guy at AMG I must say.
1 sparepart number for left and right side tells it all, the holes are drilled after the vanes inside, so the pattern of the holes is a perfect guideline.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 911
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From: Wichita
2005 SL600, 2011 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite
davidegai,
From what I gather, in order to avoid the problem of squeaking brakes, simply drive both forward and in reverse (in equal measure) to ensure proper brake cooling before you park your car. And, by the way, don't take it to the track.
From what I gather, in order to avoid the problem of squeaking brakes, simply drive both forward and in reverse (in equal measure) to ensure proper brake cooling before you park your car. And, by the way, don't take it to the track.
