Something does not add up here. How are we to believe that AMG's "small" V8 described as quoted here:

"...AMG version of the all-new 32-valve M156 direct injection V8. Depending on whether the final displacement of this engine finishes at 5.3 litres or 5.5 litres, the output is expected to be 370 or 375bhp."

Will somehow -- when increased only slightly more to 6.3 litres -- will be able to push 600bhp to 650bhp in naturally aspirated form, as stated just one paragraph later in the article?

This makes absolutely no sense at all. It sounds to me like the information presented in the article is a hodge-podge of rumor and fact. I would be willing to bet, almost certainly, that the 6.3L V8 being discussed will be supercharged. And thus, I would suggest that the whole notion that Mercedes is "moving away" from supercharged engines is totally false.

And heck, they are clearly sticking with Turbo charged V12s, so forced induction in general is not being phased out. Absolutely no rationale that I can think of for keeping the Turbos around while killing the Kompressors. Makes zero sense.

Just IMHO.

I agree..... this was sent to me by a mutual MB nut ............



FYI: Top honors at the International Engine
of the Year Awards?

The 5.5-liter supercharged V8 engine that is
hand-built for Mercedes-Benz, by its AMG division, won the Best Performance Engine award. This powerhouse develops up to 500 horsepower and 500 pound-feet of torque and was introduced with the SL 55 AMG roadster.
It now also propels the E 55 AMG and S 55 AMG
sport-luxury sedans as well as the CL 55 AMG coupe and CLK 55 AMG coupe and convertible models.

I'm confused myself. BMW's S62 engine (M5, Z8) produces 400bhp from 4.9 liter engine, 370bhp from MB's 5.3 liter V8 seems small Audi's new 4.2 V8 (new S4) has around 350-360bhp.

And I agree that a gain of 200+ bhp from one additional liter of displacement is very high. On the other hand, who the heck are we to know what does MB have up it's sleeve?

As for leaving turbo's in V12s, those are niche cars, owners most probably don't care about long-term reliability or efficiency. Or maybe V12's are less stressed than V8's (higher displacement, different alloy used, etc).

EDIT: Forgot to say that CAR magazine is a pretty credible source. They don't print rumours or hear-say. It's probably the output estimates provided to them are either optimistic or pessimistic

That doesn't mean much. BMW's S54 engine (M3) also won similar awards, yet it has some problems and rumor is the next M3 will have a V8 which will be more long-term friendly

Its about engine design and stress placed on the engine. Are you after a free rever thats high power output and torqueless? Or a less stressed engine that can handle lots of punishment as well as put out lots of torque.

Actually the V8 55K won its class, but did not take Top Honors. That went to the Mazda RX-8's Renesis rotary engine, which won the overall International Engine of the Year Award.

http://www.ukintpress.com/engineofth...ategories.html

I say keep the Kompressors and twin-turbos!!! It's a smart way to keep the weight down.

here's the whole article ..........

Supercharged AMG V8 Roars to Victory
__Text and photos courtesy DaimlerChrysler AG
__06-05-2003, edited 06-05-2003



*AMG takes first place in the International Engine of the Year Awards

*A resounding victory in the Best Performance Engine category

*Jury made up of 50 journalists from some of the world’s leading media organisations and representing 22 countries

Stuttgart/Affalterbach – The supercharged AMG V8 engine is celebrating a crushing victory in the International Engine of the Year Awards after gaining a clear majority of votes from the 50-strong jury in the newly created Best Performance Engine category. This conclusive result in the face of competition from its rivals in Europe, Japan and the USA underlines once again the expertise of Mercedes-AMG in the development of high-performance engines and cars.

Every year, the leading passenger-car engine concepts are nominated for awards in twelve different categories as part of a competition organised by British motoring publication Engine Technology International Magazine. The jury is made up of 50 recognised motoring journalists representing leading media organisations from 22 countries. Many of the jurors are also members of the Car of the Year committee.

”It’s very powerful, and completely without temperament – the exact opposite of most frenetic high-performance engines,” was the verdict of Jake Venter from the South African trade magazine ”Car” when it came to the supercharged AMG V8 engine. Graham Johnson, Chairman of the International Engine of the Year Awards, was equally impressed. His assessment: ”Blistering performance delivered by a brilliantly smooth and charismatic V8.”

”This award for our supercharged AMG V8 power unit is not only confirmation of the positive results from tests carried out by press and media around the world, it also reflects the delight of our customers with our product,” enthused Ulrich Bruhnke, Managing Director of Mercedes-AMG GmbH, at today’s presentation ceremony at Engine Expo 2003. This globally recognised exhibition for the engine industry is taking place from June 3 to 5, 2003 at the Stuttgart trade fair centre.

Developing output figures of 350 kW/476 hp to 368 kW/500 hp and peak torque of 700 Newtonmetres, the supercharged AMG V8 engine delivers a seriously impressive driving experience. The 5.5-litre eight-cylinder power unit made its debut in 2001 under the bonnet of the SL 55 AMG and since the autumn of 2002 has also been available for the E 55 AMG and S 55 AMG Saloons, as well as the CL 55 AMG Coupé.

rennteam - are you out there somewhere with a slant on the future AMG engines/trannies and when?

The BMW 4.9 and Audi 4.2L are two of the highest specific output naturally aspirated V8 motors in production today (right behind Ferrari). The fact that MB does not match them in power, to me, is of little surprise or consequence. I don't expect this to change in the near future.

Certainly we don't know for certain. I am only making assertions based on the facts at hand. Could MB/AMG start building
motors that approach or exceed 100hp/L in naturally aspirated form? Sure. Is it likely? IMHO, no.

Those V12s are the same ones used in Maybach's. You had better believe that reliability is absolutely at the forefront of the owners' concerns. As for the V12s being less stressed, there is no general property of a V12 that would make it so. Their displacement (in MB's case) is almost exactly the same as their V8s. And the same block materials can be used for either engine.

I think that the power figures stated in the article are reasonable. The premise of the article, however -- that MB is abandoning supercharged motors -- is absolutely preposterous in my humble opinion.

just got my August issue of Motor Trend and it has pics and a small but interesting article on the '05 M5 w/V-10. I know how competitive MB and BMW are and more and more things are pointing to larger displacement NA engines. BMW is talking about 500 to 550hp from a NA V-10. AMG, I'm sure, will have a response!!!

They'll probably just use the V12 engines from their Maybach line and do some tweakings?! Can you imagine all MB line having V12 engines?

some of the stuff on that article is believable as far as the next SLK might have the 5.5 NA V8, but the rest of of the article just doesn't make much sense. For instance, they said AMG will bore the V8 to 6.3 liter while having the v12 at 6 liter just doesn't make any sense.

Another thing is that is weird is that they say having the bored out big block engine will provide better fuel efficiency at high rpm? Saving fuel and make it more efficient was part of the reason that AMG went to the kompressor concept and having a clutch for the kompressor for the same reason. Why would AMG plan to change it after only putting the s/c engine series on the market for 2-3 years. That wouldn't even cover their cost for developing these s/c engines.

Last thing is that those spy shot of the CLE four-door coupe (which I think is a stupid design) and the white SL. I've seen them with complete different story and info. The white SL most likely IS the SL55 with the now Euro only manufacturer option with the F1 pace car spec and body kit. As for the CLE or whatever, that's not even a AMG test mule.

Final thought: If these info were as accurate as the BMW 530i having a turbo 3.0 inline-six that they had before the new 5 debuted this year with a NA 3.0 that's continued with slight change from the previous generation, I wouldn't count on it.

You mean right behind Honda (2.0L 240HP)

NP

Notice I said "V8".

Maybe, the V8 they are referring to is the next generation 4 valve Direct Gas Injection type and the V12 is the current 3 valve. It took a while for the 3 valve V12 to appear when the V6 and V8 debuted in 1997.

Those current supercharged engines are not fuel efficient. The kompressor eats a lot of gas on its own. Superchargers have never been fuel efficient. They are quick and easy ways to make HP.

You ever heard of "File photos" or "file footage'? It is not necessary to have a photo to write a story. Most press releases do not have pictures. So you use what you can find that closely resembles the story at hand.

BMW never said that a Turbo 3.0 was going to debut this year and if they did they can change their minds.

well doesnt the 5.5 liter waste more gas than the 3.2liter sc amg?

plus i think its better if they keep the 3.2 sc. when you have a v6 that has that much HP, you should be proud that your v6 is keeping up with most v8's

& the supercharger gives the engine a nice sounding rev.

well, I know the BMW did not say anything about a turbo 3 liter. But I was saying that bunch of these magazines had said that there will be a turbo 3.0. So, my whole point is that don't bet on any magazines. Unless it's the official BMW or MB magazines, even then they are only good for reference.

yep, the 32 engine does use less gas then the 55's v8.

OK, so according to this article the all new bulletproof 7G-Tronic transmission will be fitted on all V-8 E, S, SL and Cl from Autumn of 2003?

So if this is true, will my brand new 03 E55 have an obsolete (sort of speak) tranny in a few months

the E55 will most likely keep the 5 speed until an engine change/update. either a 32 valve 5.5/SC or another larger engine and I'm guessing MY 05 or 06. with all the power of the AMG V8s one wonders if 7 speeds is too many and how much time the tranny will spend gear hunting when you mash the pedal!! it also may be wise to wait for the 2nd year of production after/if the 7G comes to the E55. mp

blah...who cares...ur E55 still has 469hp and 510+ lb of torque.

This car with AMG performance (and post-market) tuner effects ought to be a sweet machine! (A poor-man's SLR!)

Bright Yellow '04 SLK

I noticed a significant difference if the headlamp design.

I hope the latter gets the nod; it shares closer styling to the SLR.