Boxster S or SLK 55 (again...)
10-01-2005, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by CDN-SLK55
I think you all should watch the Top Gear video by Jeremy Clarkson. He put the Boxster up against the SLK55 and had some very interesting comments. He did think that the boxster handled a bit better than the SLK and thought the Boxster was a bit better built. But after driving both cars his decision was the SLK55, without any hesitation. He said it is a nicer looking car and simply put, was a lot more fun to drive.
I found the video on Bit Torrence and the entire video is 348Meg. If you get a chance, download it...
I found the video on Bit Torrence and the entire video is 348Meg. If you get a chance, download it...
10-01-2005, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CDN-SLK55
Not really because the guys shooting at him said after shooting at the Boxster they figured out how those laser guns worked. 
10-02-2005, 01:32 PM
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It looks like we won't agree anywhere on this issue, I will admit it is hard for a man to be completely unbiased when it comes to the car he owns. I like my benz, you like your porsche. Saab and volvo drivers love their stuff too. One of these two cars is better; I don't care what people say, there is always a "better". These cars are from different company's, one has to be better. One is built better, one is tested better, one is designed better, one uses more expensive materials, one is just better. Unless we visit the factories and talk to the engineers, we may never know. I don't trust people's opinions, wether they sell, work on, or drive either car. I have a friend who used to work at volvo doing sales, now he works at benz. Back then, volvos were the best, now mb's are the best. I'm sure when he works at hyndai, they will be the best.
As for porsche being a more rewarding experience, that all comes down to the dealer. My buddy has a mini cooper. Every time it breaks they give him a new 3 series loaner, and fix the problem no questions asked. He cracked the windshield coming off the track, dealer fixed it. Broke something in the steering because the car is lowered, dealer fixed it. And so on. He swears by mini, sure he'd rather own a porsche or mb, but he can almost guarantee he'll not find similar service anywhere. Now that's a rewarding experience.
I think the cayenne was a big mistake for porsche. Why does the world need a porsche version of the touareg? These kind of tricks are for GM & Ford, not porsche. It is not cool when GM rebadges pickup trucks as escalades, so why is it ok for Porsche to sell VW's? The worst part of the cayenne/touareg deal is that you can buy a V8 Touareg for less than a V6 cayenne. You've gotta be a total brand ***** to go for that one. Oh well, they are selling pretty good, so I guess that's all that matters these days.
As for MB reliability, we need to understand what reliability really is. Is it when a cupholder breaks? Or when you are left stranded in the middle of the road? Most new cars these days are very reliable. Hyndai offers a ten year warranty in the US. They must have some faith in their cars to warranty them for 10 years. MB is in a slightly different situation. They make 500 & 600 hp daily drivers. They put hardtops where other manufacturers put soft tops. They push the envelope in engineering, they are on the leading edge. No other manufacturer makes cars as advanced. I hope we can all agree on that one. So, when you are pushing the limits, you may have some issues. So a sensor malfunctions, it was probably not even made by MB. A fuel injector is faulty, again MB didn't make it either. All new cars are plagued by silly little problems.
When it comes to the big stuff, the stuff that counts like engine, transmission, and rear end, MB's are bulletproof. Those 500 & 600hp engines will last a million k's, the transmissions that can take 600 ft/lbs of torque will last a million k's. The nano paint will last a million k's. The new benzes have had no reliability woes of recent years. Those supid little problems, all electronic in nature are from bad suppliers, not MB.
As for porsche being a more rewarding experience, that all comes down to the dealer. My buddy has a mini cooper. Every time it breaks they give him a new 3 series loaner, and fix the problem no questions asked. He cracked the windshield coming off the track, dealer fixed it. Broke something in the steering because the car is lowered, dealer fixed it. And so on. He swears by mini, sure he'd rather own a porsche or mb, but he can almost guarantee he'll not find similar service anywhere. Now that's a rewarding experience.
I think the cayenne was a big mistake for porsche. Why does the world need a porsche version of the touareg? These kind of tricks are for GM & Ford, not porsche. It is not cool when GM rebadges pickup trucks as escalades, so why is it ok for Porsche to sell VW's? The worst part of the cayenne/touareg deal is that you can buy a V8 Touareg for less than a V6 cayenne. You've gotta be a total brand ***** to go for that one. Oh well, they are selling pretty good, so I guess that's all that matters these days.
As for MB reliability, we need to understand what reliability really is. Is it when a cupholder breaks? Or when you are left stranded in the middle of the road? Most new cars these days are very reliable. Hyndai offers a ten year warranty in the US. They must have some faith in their cars to warranty them for 10 years. MB is in a slightly different situation. They make 500 & 600 hp daily drivers. They put hardtops where other manufacturers put soft tops. They push the envelope in engineering, they are on the leading edge. No other manufacturer makes cars as advanced. I hope we can all agree on that one. So, when you are pushing the limits, you may have some issues. So a sensor malfunctions, it was probably not even made by MB. A fuel injector is faulty, again MB didn't make it either. All new cars are plagued by silly little problems.
When it comes to the big stuff, the stuff that counts like engine, transmission, and rear end, MB's are bulletproof. Those 500 & 600hp engines will last a million k's, the transmissions that can take 600 ft/lbs of torque will last a million k's. The nano paint will last a million k's. The new benzes have had no reliability woes of recent years. Those supid little problems, all electronic in nature are from bad suppliers, not MB.
Last edited by benz-aficionado; 10-02-2005 at 01:51 PM.
10-02-2005, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by benz-aficionado
It looks like we won't agree anywhere on this issue.......... I think the cayenne was a big mistake for porsche. Why does the world need a porsche version of the touareg?
10-02-2005, 06:26 PM
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'93 RX-7, SLK55
Originally Posted by benz-aficionado
It looks like we won't agree anywhere on this issue, I will admit it is hard for a man to be completely unbiased when it comes to the car he owns. I like my benz, you like your porsche. Saab and volvo drivers love their stuff too. One of these two cars is better; I don't care what people say, there is always a "better". These cars are from different company's, one has to be better. One is built better, one is tested better, one is designed better, one uses more expensive materials, one is just better. Unless we visit the factories and talk to the engineers, we may never know. I don't trust people's opinions, wether they sell, work on, or drive either car. I have a friend who used to work at volvo doing sales, now he works at benz. Back then, volvos were the best, now mb's are the best. I'm sure when he works at hyndai, they will be the best.
As for porsche being a more rewarding experience, that all comes down to the dealer. My buddy has a mini cooper. Every time it breaks they give him a new 3 series loaner, and fix the problem no questions asked. He cracked the windshield coming off the track, dealer fixed it. Broke something in the steering because the car is lowered, dealer fixed it. And so on. He swears by mini, sure he'd rather own a porsche or mb, but he can almost guarantee he'll not find similar service anywhere. Now that's a rewarding experience.
I think the cayenne was a big mistake for porsche. Why does the world need a porsche version of the touareg? These kind of tricks are for GM & Ford, not porsche. It is not cool when GM rebadges pickup trucks as escalades, so why is it ok for Porsche to sell VW's? The worst part of the cayenne/touareg deal is that you can buy a V8 Touareg for less than a V6 cayenne. You've gotta be a total brand ***** to go for that one. Oh well, they are selling pretty good, so I guess that's all that matters these days.
As for MB reliability, we need to understand what reliability really is. Is it when a cupholder breaks? Or when you are left stranded in the middle of the road? Most new cars these days are very reliable. Hyndai offers a ten year warranty in the US. They must have some faith in their cars to warranty them for 10 years. MB is in a slightly different situation. They make 500 & 600 hp daily drivers. They put hardtops where other manufacturers put soft tops. They push the envelope in engineering, they are on the leading edge. No other manufacturer makes cars as advanced. I hope we can all agree on that one. So, when you are pushing the limits, you may have some issues. So a sensor malfunctions, it was probably not even made by MB. A fuel injector is faulty, again MB didn't make it either. All new cars are plagued by silly little problems.
When it comes to the big stuff, the stuff that counts like engine, transmission, and rear end, MB's are bulletproof. Those 500 & 600hp engines will last a million k's, the transmissions that can take 600 ft/lbs of torque will last a million k's. The nano paint will last a million k's. The new benzes have had no reliability woes of recent years. Those supid little problems, all electronic in nature are from bad suppliers, not MB.
As for porsche being a more rewarding experience, that all comes down to the dealer. My buddy has a mini cooper. Every time it breaks they give him a new 3 series loaner, and fix the problem no questions asked. He cracked the windshield coming off the track, dealer fixed it. Broke something in the steering because the car is lowered, dealer fixed it. And so on. He swears by mini, sure he'd rather own a porsche or mb, but he can almost guarantee he'll not find similar service anywhere. Now that's a rewarding experience.
I think the cayenne was a big mistake for porsche. Why does the world need a porsche version of the touareg? These kind of tricks are for GM & Ford, not porsche. It is not cool when GM rebadges pickup trucks as escalades, so why is it ok for Porsche to sell VW's? The worst part of the cayenne/touareg deal is that you can buy a V8 Touareg for less than a V6 cayenne. You've gotta be a total brand ***** to go for that one. Oh well, they are selling pretty good, so I guess that's all that matters these days.
As for MB reliability, we need to understand what reliability really is. Is it when a cupholder breaks? Or when you are left stranded in the middle of the road? Most new cars these days are very reliable. Hyndai offers a ten year warranty in the US. They must have some faith in their cars to warranty them for 10 years. MB is in a slightly different situation. They make 500 & 600 hp daily drivers. They put hardtops where other manufacturers put soft tops. They push the envelope in engineering, they are on the leading edge. No other manufacturer makes cars as advanced. I hope we can all agree on that one. So, when you are pushing the limits, you may have some issues. So a sensor malfunctions, it was probably not even made by MB. A fuel injector is faulty, again MB didn't make it either. All new cars are plagued by silly little problems.
When it comes to the big stuff, the stuff that counts like engine, transmission, and rear end, MB's are bulletproof. Those 500 & 600hp engines will last a million k's, the transmissions that can take 600 ft/lbs of torque will last a million k's. The nano paint will last a million k's. The new benzes have had no reliability woes of recent years. Those supid little problems, all electronic in nature are from bad suppliers, not MB.
I agree with most of your posts & MB has improved their quality recently. However, the electronic mistakes are indeed MB's. If they subcontract out mfg for engine, ABS, climate, tranny controllers, etc, they must manage their suppliers & perform rigorous qualifications for the specific parts/modules they procure from Bosch, etc via rigorous reliability testing (just like I do at my semiconductor company)
. They have been careless in this regard & its bit them in the azz recently. Kudos to MB for acknowledging this fact, but defective electronic modules leave lingering effects with current & prospective customers (like a bad restaurant meal, for example).I also think that what you may define as "better" may not apply to others?
People may jointly come to the conclusion that the SLK55 has better acceleration & looks while also agreeing the Boxter handles, at limit, better. This does not mean the SLK55 is, overall, a "better" car. To you, yes, it rules. However, to someone who favors handling over power & looks, the traits don't offset the handling characteristic of the Boxster. Pal, I don't wish to "preach" to anyone - just mention people may have different tastes & value judgements on performance traits that when added up, come up with a different answer than you & I? For what its worth, I think the SLK55 is, overeall, a better var than the Boxster. However, it does not mean I'm "right" per se.
See ya,
-Matt
10-09-2005, 05:50 AM
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I wish I could agree with you guys and believe that the differences between a boxster s and an SLK55 are so minor that either is a winner based on slight differences in taste.
I wish I could, but I can't.
Porsche has been posting record profits for the last 11 years. They accomplish this by employing simple technology, zero innovation and huge markups. Throw in some VW rebranding and their automotive philosophy becomes very clear: profit is what drives this company.
A boxster is not a deal. That is a fact. Record profits are one indication of this. Dealer markups in excess of $20k (CAD) are another. There is nothing to the car. For all intents and purposes, there is very little technology wise and cost of production wise to set it apart from a miata.
An SLK55 on the other hand has a list of innovations and new technologies that is longer than all of porsches put together. You are getting a serious deal when you buy this car. As the brochure states, the 55 is an "Affordable Exotic". 13.4" discs, 6 piston calipers, 7 speed transmission, hand build V8, conv. hard top. These are things a porsche driver should understand. I won't go into the list that MB drivers would understand, because everybody already knows what MB built their reputation on.
The SLK is by far the better car. No amount of marketing hype, brand loyalty, or anything else should convince an objective person otherwise. MB didn't post record profits over the last 11 years. They spent a lot of money making their cars better.
I wish I could, but I can't.
Porsche has been posting record profits for the last 11 years. They accomplish this by employing simple technology, zero innovation and huge markups. Throw in some VW rebranding and their automotive philosophy becomes very clear: profit is what drives this company.
A boxster is not a deal. That is a fact. Record profits are one indication of this. Dealer markups in excess of $20k (CAD) are another. There is nothing to the car. For all intents and purposes, there is very little technology wise and cost of production wise to set it apart from a miata.
An SLK55 on the other hand has a list of innovations and new technologies that is longer than all of porsches put together. You are getting a serious deal when you buy this car. As the brochure states, the 55 is an "Affordable Exotic". 13.4" discs, 6 piston calipers, 7 speed transmission, hand build V8, conv. hard top. These are things a porsche driver should understand. I won't go into the list that MB drivers would understand, because everybody already knows what MB built their reputation on.
The SLK is by far the better car. No amount of marketing hype, brand loyalty, or anything else should convince an objective person otherwise. MB didn't post record profits over the last 11 years. They spent a lot of money making their cars better.
10-09-2005, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by benz-aficionado
profit is what drives this company.
10-09-2005, 08:58 AM
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Benz-afficionado is right. If your looking for the best "value" for your money a new porsche is way down the list. Being the "most profitable car company in the world" may be great for them, but it's not good for the consumer. If Porsche made an slk55 clone ( call it the rebirth of the 928) with the EXACT same parts (New 7sp tiptronic! brembo brakes!) it would cost 130k easy. Pop a flat six in the new mx-5 and it would cost 35 k at the most.
There is something to be said, however, for refined simplicity. The only German car I'd ever own that was more than 10 years old would be a 911. Simplicity enhances reliability, which we all know is not a strong suit of mercedes
There is something to be said, however, for refined simplicity. The only German car I'd ever own that was more than 10 years old would be a 911. Simplicity enhances reliability, which we all know is not a strong suit of mercedes
10-09-2005, 01:31 PM
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987S
Originally Posted by benz-aficionado
Porsche has been posting record profits for the last 11 years. They accomplish this by employing simple technology, zero innovation and huge markups.
I would say Porsche have just as much innovation in their range as MB..... PASM adaptive suspension, PSM traction control that is amazingly complex and effective, PCCB ceramic brakes (their own in house standard brakes are also matched by very few), Sport Chrono, vario cam, the Boxster is the only roadster with 6 airbags, variable inlet control...... they'll also soon have a DSG type auto box that will make the MB 7G look old fashioned..... when will MB produce a decent manual box (the SLK 6 speed manual is the only decent manual MB produce currently) or an auto that avoids those nasty power sapping torque converters?
10-09-2005, 03:07 PM
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'93 RX-7, SLK55
Originally Posted by SLK55AMG
You've mentioned Porsches's lack of innovation several times...... what makes you feel that Porsche don't innovate as much as any other top marque?
I would say Porsche have just as much innovation in their range as MB..... PASM adaptive suspension, PSM traction control that is amazingly complex and effective, PCCB ceramic brakes (their own in house standard brakes are also matched by very few), Sport Chrono, vario cam, the Boxster is the only roadster with 6 airbags, variable inlet control...... they'll also soon have a DSG type auto box that will make the MB 7G look old fashioned..... when will MB produce a decent manual box (the SLK 6 speed manual is the only decent manual MB produce currently) or an auto that avoids those nasty power sapping torque converters?
I would say Porsche have just as much innovation in their range as MB..... PASM adaptive suspension, PSM traction control that is amazingly complex and effective, PCCB ceramic brakes (their own in house standard brakes are also matched by very few), Sport Chrono, vario cam, the Boxster is the only roadster with 6 airbags, variable inlet control...... they'll also soon have a DSG type auto box that will make the MB 7G look old fashioned..... when will MB produce a decent manual box (the SLK 6 speed manual is the only decent manual MB produce currently) or an auto that avoids those nasty power sapping torque converters?
I don't agree with your tranny commentray. Porsche's Tiptronic pales in comparison to MB's 7G. Talking about what Porsche "may come out with" is irrelevant because you, nor anyone else, can obtain it on any Porsche model today. I think you may want to read up on the 7G, its torque converter is more efficient than the 5 Spd Auto. In fact, even MB current 5 Spd auto is very efficient. People are putting down 531 RWHP with the same Kleemann set up I have (590 Hp at the flywheel) with the 5 Spd auto. This is a 59 Hp drivetrain loss = 10% drivetrain loss. Even in stock format, 12% drivetrain loss is typical with the 5 Spd auto. I'm willing to BET that (10 - 12% loss) is more efficient than the Porsche Boxter MANUAL.
See ya,
-Matt
10-09-2005, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Yellow R1
Agreed, many innovations by Porsche. However, you have to pay for nearly every one of them. Its OK to pay for "some" innovations, but Porsche makes you pay for every one of them & they are all pretty expensive (THAT is a major problem & I think reinforces's Benz's above commentary regarding value). The ceramic brakes were an $8k option when I looked at the Boxter. Optioned up, a Boxter S was about $80K. Again, way too pricey for what you get. That Boxter was going to cost more than a base 911 when option out. That ain't right.
I don't agree with your tranny commentray. Porsche's Tiptronic pales in comparison to MB's 7G. Talking about what Porsche "may come out with" is irrelevant because you, nor anyone else, can obtain it on any Porsche model today. I think you may want to read up on the 7G, its torque converter is more efficient than the 5 Spd Auto. In fact, even MB current 5 Spd auto is very efficient. People are putting down 531 RWHP with the same Kleemann set up I have (590 Hp at the flywheel) with the 5 Spd auto. This is a 59 Hp drivetrain loss = 10% drivetrain loss. Even in stock format, 12% drivetrain loss is typical with the 5 Spd auto. I'm willing to BET that (10 - 12% loss) is more efficient than the Porsche Boxter MANUAL.
See ya,
-Matt
I don't agree with your tranny commentray. Porsche's Tiptronic pales in comparison to MB's 7G. Talking about what Porsche "may come out with" is irrelevant because you, nor anyone else, can obtain it on any Porsche model today. I think you may want to read up on the 7G, its torque converter is more efficient than the 5 Spd Auto. In fact, even MB current 5 Spd auto is very efficient. People are putting down 531 RWHP with the same Kleemann set up I have (590 Hp at the flywheel) with the 5 Spd auto. This is a 59 Hp drivetrain loss = 10% drivetrain loss. Even in stock format, 12% drivetrain loss is typical with the 5 Spd auto. I'm willing to BET that (10 - 12% loss) is more efficient than the Porsche Boxter MANUAL.
See ya,
-Matt
And I didn't mention the current tiptronic I'm talking about the Porsche DSG box that is due for release soon, admittedly not now but we were talking about innovation. The current Tiptronic is rubbish..... possibly the worst auto box on a sports car today! Anyone that pays extra for tiptronic on a Porsche needs to be taken out and flogged as far as I'm concerned.
If the 7G drivetrain loss on a stock car is as low as 10% it would indeed be as good as your average manual as far as power loss is concerned. My main problem with torque converter autos compared to a DSG dual clutch semi automatic is the slow shift times..... the DSG is immediate while the standard auto isn't.
10-09-2005, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SLK55AMG
You've mentioned Porsches's lack of innovation several times...... what makes you feel that Porsche don't innovate as much as any other top marque?
I would say Porsche have just as much innovation in their range as MB..... PASM adaptive suspension, PSM traction control that is amazingly complex and effective, PCCB ceramic brakes (their own in house standard brakes are also matched by very few), Sport Chrono, vario cam, the Boxster is the only roadster with 6 airbags, variable inlet control...... they'll also soon have a DSG type auto box that will make the MB 7G look old fashioned..... when will MB produce a decent manual box (the SLK 6 speed manual is the only decent manual MB produce currently) or an auto that avoids those nasty power sapping torque converters?
I would say Porsche have just as much innovation in their range as MB..... PASM adaptive suspension, PSM traction control that is amazingly complex and effective, PCCB ceramic brakes (their own in house standard brakes are also matched by very few), Sport Chrono, vario cam, the Boxster is the only roadster with 6 airbags, variable inlet control...... they'll also soon have a DSG type auto box that will make the MB 7G look old fashioned..... when will MB produce a decent manual box (the SLK 6 speed manual is the only decent manual MB produce currently) or an auto that avoids those nasty power sapping torque converters?
About the manual... North Americans are the only market that still want manuals in hi-po cars anymore. Europeans are all onto F1 style sequential manual gearboxes. Case in point: the new M5 is available in SMG only in europe, and was going to be that way in US as well, until whining idiots demanded a 6spd for their 4 door sedan. Americans can now choose between a 7 spd SMG or a 6 spd manual.
Manuals are slowly becoming obsolete. Porsche, Corvette and MB are the only guys left that don't have SMG's yet. Corvette is excused, because the new Z06 runs circles around virtually everything under $300k. MB has a very competent 7spd auto, benefits of which have been outlined by YellowR1. So that leaves Porsche. Porsche has a good old 6spd and 15 year old tiptronic.
Once again, porsche is at the back of the pack.
I can level with the purists who want a pure sports car with no gadgets, but the definition of pure sports car has changed. Ferrari's version is about F1 technology for the street. Corvette's version is about lightweight materials and massive power. MB's version is about power and technology.
Porsche's version is all about the old school. 1990's power, 90's transmissions, and finally water cooling. Pure by 90's standards, but pretty low end by today's.
10-09-2005, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by benz-aficionado
I'm not too sure if I would call those innovations. Vario cam is another way of saying VVT, which honda came out with decades ago.
About the manual... North Americans are the only market that still want manuals in hi-po cars anymore. Europeans are all onto F1 style sequential manual gearboxes. Case in point: the new M5 is available in SMG only in europe, and was going to be that way in US as well, until whining idiots demanded a 6spd for their 4 door sedan. .
About the manual... North Americans are the only market that still want manuals in hi-po cars anymore. Europeans are all onto F1 style sequential manual gearboxes. Case in point: the new M5 is available in SMG only in europe, and was going to be that way in US as well, until whining idiots demanded a 6spd for their 4 door sedan. .
The British market still want manual boxes..... and until the semi auto is as good as a manual I suspect that won't change.
And if Porsche are "only" using 90s design and technology it doesn't say much for the competition when Porsche are still the benchmark against which other sports cars are measured
10-09-2005, 09:18 PM
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The Ford Skyliner was the first hardtop convertible. MB was the first to make it a sucess with the original SLK.
Porsche hasn't been the benchmark for quite a while now. The Boxster s has stiff competition from MB, BMW, Honda and Nissan 350z. 911 is a little better off, but for the same money you can get a 505hp Z06 that is a wee bit quicker at everything. You really have to get into GT2 territory to claim any benchmarks, but at that point you are competing with F430's, SL65's, Gallardo's, Vipers, Ford GT's and everything else out there.
Actually, they can only claim a benchmark with the Touareg/Cayenne Turbo. I'll give you that. It was the fastest SUV on the market until the ML63 showed up. Ironic, wouldn't ya say? Porsche has average sports cars, but really fast SUV's. What is the world coming to...
If you're looking for a benchmark, I would have to say it's the new Z06. (They are going for $20k over list on eBay - crazy!)
Porsches are great, but it's time for them to get back to work, and stop resting on their laurrels.
Porsche hasn't been the benchmark for quite a while now. The Boxster s has stiff competition from MB, BMW, Honda and Nissan 350z. 911 is a little better off, but for the same money you can get a 505hp Z06 that is a wee bit quicker at everything. You really have to get into GT2 territory to claim any benchmarks, but at that point you are competing with F430's, SL65's, Gallardo's, Vipers, Ford GT's and everything else out there.
Actually, they can only claim a benchmark with the Touareg/Cayenne Turbo. I'll give you that. It was the fastest SUV on the market until the ML63 showed up. Ironic, wouldn't ya say? Porsche has average sports cars, but really fast SUV's. What is the world coming to...
If you're looking for a benchmark, I would have to say it's the new Z06. (They are going for $20k over list on eBay - crazy!)
Porsches are great, but it's time for them to get back to work, and stop resting on their laurrels.
10-09-2005, 11:03 PM
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'93 RX-7, SLK55
We need to be talking this stuff over a beer, not sucking up bandwidth .
Just kidding.
SLK55AMG, your point regarding speed of the MB 7G is valid - it's a little slow for my taste - its a good point. :p
I do agree with Benz regarding value though. Porsche's are built well & perform well. The value though, in light of the competition, is no longer what it "was" in my opinion. Its not a "rip off", it's just there are so many choices out there today with more compelling value than what Porsche has to offer. In any case, I'm not here to change anyone's mind - it's just my opinion (hey, its a forum, not car bible!).
If you guys were in the Bay area, I'd buy ya a couple of drinks so we could trade input. Email sucks, but its entertaining!
See ya,
-Matt
.Just kidding.
SLK55AMG, your point regarding speed of the MB 7G is valid - it's a little slow for my taste - its a good point. :p
I do agree with Benz regarding value though. Porsche's are built well & perform well. The value though, in light of the competition, is no longer what it "was" in my opinion. Its not a "rip off", it's just there are so many choices out there today with more compelling value than what Porsche has to offer.
In any case, I'm not here to change anyone's mind - it's just my opinion (hey, its a forum, not car bible!).If you guys were in the Bay area, I'd buy ya a couple of drinks so we could trade input. Email sucks, but its entertaining!
See ya,
-Matt
10-10-2005, 04:07 AM
#143
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W210 E320, SLK55 AMG
Originally Posted by SLK55AMG
Well in that case most of the "innovations" you mentioned for the SLK55 are hardly any better than those at Porsche...... other than the 7G and hot air down your neck hardly anything in the MB range is truely innovative...... traction control was first seen in a SAAB not MB...... hardtop convertibles were introduced by Lexus, 13.4" brakes ain't new, nor are 6 piston calipers, or hand built V8s.....
Powered hardtop convertibles were actually first made by Peugeot in the 1930s.
First car with crumple zones and safety cage: Mercedes-Benz
First car with ESP: Mercedes-Benz
First car with brake assist: Mercedes-Benz
First car with driver and passenger air bags: Mercedes-Benz
First car with rain sensing wipers: Mercedes-Benz
First car with pretensioning seat belts: Mercedes-Benz
And, of course,
First car: Mercedes-Benz (1886)
10-10-2005, 05:44 AM
#144
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987S
Originally Posted by Yellow R1
If you guys were in the Bay area, I'd buy ya a couple of drinks so we could trade input. Email sucks, but its entertaining!
See ya,
-Matt
See ya,
-Matt
10-10-2005, 05:57 AM
#145
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Originally Posted by steve-p
Hmmm, let's see.
Powered hardtop convertibles were actually first made by Peugeot in the 1930s. >>>>> Yep well remembered..... I think the Lexus SC430 was the first modern car to make it a feature..... the SLK made it popular.
First car with crumple zones and safety cage: Mercedes-Benz >>>> yep
First car with ESP: Mercedes-Benz >>>>> developed by Bosch for MB
First car with brake assist: Mercedes-Benz >>>>> Bosch again
First car with driver and passenger air bags: Mercedes-Benz >>>>> yep
First car with rain sensing wipers: Mercedes-Benz >>>> yep
First car with pretensioning seat belts: Mercedes-Benz >>>>> yep
And, of course,
First car: Mercedes-Benz (1886) >>>>>> maybe first mass produced but not the first...... "A frenchman named Etienne Lenoir patented the first pratical gas engine in Paris in 1860 and drove a car based on the design from Paris to Joinville in 1862. His one-half horse power engine had a bore of 5 inches and a 24 inch stroke. It was big and heavy and turned 100 rpm. Lenoir died broke in 1900."
Powered hardtop convertibles were actually first made by Peugeot in the 1930s. >>>>> Yep well remembered..... I think the Lexus SC430 was the first modern car to make it a feature..... the SLK made it popular.
First car with crumple zones and safety cage: Mercedes-Benz >>>> yep
First car with ESP: Mercedes-Benz >>>>> developed by Bosch for MB
First car with brake assist: Mercedes-Benz >>>>> Bosch again
First car with driver and passenger air bags: Mercedes-Benz >>>>> yep
First car with rain sensing wipers: Mercedes-Benz >>>> yep
First car with pretensioning seat belts: Mercedes-Benz >>>>> yep
And, of course,
First car: Mercedes-Benz (1886) >>>>>> maybe first mass produced but not the first...... "A frenchman named Etienne Lenoir patented the first pratical gas engine in Paris in 1860 and drove a car based on the design from Paris to Joinville in 1862. His one-half horse power engine had a bore of 5 inches and a 24 inch stroke. It was big and heavy and turned 100 rpm. Lenoir died broke in 1900."
10-10-2005, 06:38 PM
#146
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BLACK 2005 SLK55 AMG,02 SILVER C32(SOLD),02 ML320 SILVER(Sold),99 S320 BLUE, 03 E500 Sport Pewter
Mercedes Benz--->First car with hard top convertible which folds into trunk
10-11-2005, 12:55 AM
#147
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Originally Posted by SLK55AMG
I think the Lexus SC430 was the first modern car to make it a feature..... the SLK made it popular.
Answers above...... oh the joys of the internet! :p
Answers above...... oh the joys of the internet! :p
But before that in a modern day, commercially available, mass produced car was the 1996 Mitsubishi 3000GT Spyder. Hardtop convertible that folded into the trunk at a push of a button.
10-11-2005, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by chitownc32
Mercedes Benz--->First car with hard top convertible which folds into trunk
10-11-2005, 04:40 AM
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987S
Originally Posted by bloflin
Nope, not even close, MB was 6 years ahead of Lexus. 1998 SLK230 had the retractable hardtop. Lexus SC430 wasn't out until '01 as a 2002 MY.
But before that in a modern day, commercially available, mass produced car was the 1996 Mitsubishi 3000GT Spyder. Hardtop convertible that folded into the trunk at a push of a button.
But before that in a modern day, commercially available, mass produced car was the 1996 Mitsubishi 3000GT Spyder. Hardtop convertible that folded into the trunk at a push of a button.
10-11-2005, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SLK55AMG
OK fair enough!...... I should know by now not to take the first bit of internet rubbish I come across as fact
I had a Dodge Stealth, which was a Mitsu 3000GT rebranded. Also had soft top converts in my early life, liked converts but didn't like rag tops anymore. Then I almost went for the SLK230 early on (the Mistu convert was only one model year). But just didn't do it for me. Then later got one of the first Lex SC430s.
So, I had a little more background
