M6toE55

QUOTE:
hey everyone...
i just got off the phone with a Powerchips Rep who told me that he'd give me a discount if i could get a group order together....
Ashman and I are going to get one each...
anyone else?
check the website out and then let me know if you're interested....
i haven't heard anything negative about these chips or the company....

http://www.powerchipgroup.com/index.asp



I copied this from another mb forum - has anyone here swapped out their ecu/brain? I did a similar thing to my m6 when I first got it - very noticable improvement [not nearly as expensive, though]...

Anybody with this sort of experience with their e55?

jmeyers

I hate to rain on your parade, but when I was in Affalterbach recently visiting the AMG facility, the director of engine manufacturing made it very clear to me that the E55 engine has been engineered precisely for the horsepower it produces. Additional power will, inevitably, stress the crankcase, and the likely outcome will be an engine damaged beyond repair.

I really don't think that one needs more power than an E55 delivers for a W210 chassis, but I suspect others might debate that!

Jonathan

Ronald

You are 100% right. Furthermore you loose your warranty and in some countries (like Germany) even your operating license and therefore, your insurance.

And don't think nobody will find out if you stand at your Mercedes-Benz dealer with a damaged engine.

Ronald

JamE55

so i guess that chip is not adviseable to be installed then?

M6toE55

Good feedback - seems to be a sign of how far we've come with technology, tuning, tolerances, etc. It used to be a real no-brainer to pop a dinan chip in the older bmw's - instant hp/trq!

The upside seems to be that today's cars have been much more refined and tweaked, prior to release.

thanks for the replies.

Ronald

There is no chip adviseable. If you want to improve the performance of your car, replace parts that actually improve the life span of your engine, like metallic catalytic converters (~ add. 20 HP), Carbon Fibre Airbox (~ add. 10 HP),...

My best advise for the old E 55:


Ronald

dNA3D

Yea true - would be a better idea to send it to a proper, more reputable tuner i.e. Brabus, Renntech, Kleemann etc. Plus, those tuners will also give you a warranty for the new components in your car... much safer that way while the standard Mercedes warranty will still apply for all Mercedes and AMG components that still exist in the car

Ronald

This is usually the case, but there are other examples: One of our members had problems with his sunroof. The mechanic said that his warranty won't cover it since he had his suspension modified with some shorter Eibach springs. So, the repair wasn't covered by the warrant since you can't legally prove that the problems with the sunroof weren't the result of a modified suspension set up....

I could list a lot more examples like these, but before you start flaming: you can expect most dealers to handle this different.

However, if you turn up at your dealership with a damaged engine and the mechanic finds out through standard Mercedes-Benz diagnosis systems that your car was 'chip-tuned', don't expect even the tiniest bit of warranty-coverage. Every little detail of your car is electronically logged these days. So don't even dream about Mercedes-Benz not finding out.

Do it right or don't do it at all!
Ronald

muhri

Ronald,

So does this mean that your brabus wheels on your SL55 voided your warranty? if its that bad in germany.. I know our dealers are OK about kits, wheels and springs.. Anything that has to do with supercharging or mangling with chips they don't like though.

Ronald

Theoretically: yes. But since AMG offers a rim / tire combination in the same size, Mercedes-Benz wouldn't stand a chance denying warranty if I had problems with other parts of the car (like the Command system). But here's another example: I had my brake discs exchanged after only 4.000 miles because they weren't running smooth any more. Theoretically my dealer could have said that this happened due to insufficient cooling because of using rims that weren't certified by Mercedes-Benz...

However, you will always have to differentiate between the real warranty and fair trading. (I don't know if this is the right term: How do you call it when Mercedes-Benz pays for a repair out of good will even though your warranty expired?)

Things aren't that bad in Germany. I am only speaking theoretically and gave some extreme examples.

I avoid this problem by buying all my stuff from one of our members who runs an AMG / Brabus / Lorinser / Carlsson headquarter. If I have a problem, I don't care whose warranty has to cover it

Ronald

JamE55

I agree! Although i haven't recieved a call yet??

pocholin

So, are you saying that a kleeman S/C is going to brake that engine because of the added HP????
Kleeman has been doing this for years and you can't compare the amount of power a s/c does compared to a chip, so How could a chip alone damage the engine but a super charger won't???

What they told you doesn't make sense, I also remember reading that AMG engines are made to take more power than they make (600 hp).

pocholin

Your advise is about $14k dlls
I talked to the rep in Dallas once.

Ronald

Only if you get the entire kit, but you can also get the part separately.

Since all the parts don't just increase the power of your car, but even increase it's life span, I would say it is much cheaper than buying a ~1.000 US-$ chiptuning and a new ~40.000 US-$ engine one year later....

Ronald

Ronald

A supercharger for the old E 55 stresses the car a lot more than a chip, because many parts of the car can't handle the massive increase in torque in the long run (gearbox, rear axle,...). Just ask AMG what they discovered when they detuned a Kleemann...

Ronald

Bilal

I'm curious Ronald, just what did they discover?

dNA3D

I don't think Kleemann sell Supercharger-only packages. I'm sure they'll reinforce some other parts won't they?

Ronald

Two of my friends were interested in Kleemann Kompressors (E 55 S210 and C 55 S202) and we were told that they only put the supercharger on top. Not even the exhaust is adjusted, let alone gearbox / transmission, power train, rear axle, etc.

AMG had test cars with their kompressors on the old E class models as well with 'only' 450-475 HP and guess what: The car couldn't stand one Mercedes-Benz long term test. The amount of torque is just too extreme.

I love the idea of just putting a Kompressor on top of the non-s/c 5,0 / 5,5 l engines, because it gives you an incredible power boost for a reasonable amount of money. But since maybe only a supercharged 430 is up for it, I better take my money and buy the next bigger model (or start saving for it). Anything with more than 15% increase in HP / NM is too much for the car, unless you start replacing associated parts as well.

Did you never ask yourself why the engines of extremely powerful cars like the CLK GTR or the have to be serviced every 3000 miles? Or why AMG had to detune the 65 engines to just 1000 NM? AMG also had no problem tuning the SL 55 Safety Car to an incredible <unofficial> HP, but many parts had to be exchanged after every race.

Ronald

pocholin

This is why James Cannon took his car to Renntech, they reinforce the block, do something with the pistons and internals of the engine to ensure longevity, do exhaust, brakes, transmission, rear frame (or something like that). Kleeman just puts the s/c and says the engine is built to take the extra power, I guess they are right, but for how long? that is the question.

pocholin

That is exactly my point, jmeyers was saying that the Chip will damage the engine because of the extra stress, I was saying the chip won't hurt the engine in comparison to the s/c which adds a lot more stress, yet kleeman says it won't affect the engine.

Ronald

That's why I don't have a problem with MKB and it's US partner RENNtech. They have the right attitude towards tuning. Either they do it right, or they don't do it at all.

But I guess many people complain that a RENNtech supercharger is much more expensive than a Kleemann kompressor. Unfortunately, many people don't see (or don't want to see) why the RENNtech solution is much more expensive.

Ronald

prozach7

Any Kleemann reps. want to reply with their story?

Bilal

Well, Kleeman is Danish, them tuning German cars, that says it all.

Ronald

That's a bit unfair: The quality of Kleemann's work shares a reference status together with just a few other high-quality tuners like Brabus, Carlsson, MKB and RENNtech (in alphabetical order). I don't have a problem HOW they do it - it's WHAT they (partially) do. I like the sound of their exhausts and I think their Mov'it brakes are great. I just think that a Kompressor is too much for the 5.0 / 5.5 l engine and some of their rims are simply way too wide to survive even the most basic racetrack (i.e. 12x20" on an SL 55).

But everybody has to decide for himself: It's your car, your money, your decision, your life. If you're happy, than I'm happy for you.

Ronald

Lucas

Roland.

I admire your enthusiasm against AMG, I personally respect and admire AMG mostly because arround 50% of KLEEMANN modifications are made on AMG cars.

I personally starts getting a little tired of defending or explaining the same over and over again.

Let us do it the oposit way this time, Roland you seems to be a wise man, who knows a lot about Mercedes-Benz / AMG cars, so please explain me what's the differences are between MB AND AMG parts Mentioned below.

Don't tell me the sparepart number difference, tell me the difference in construction and why the AMG parts are stronger than the MB parts.

* Rear axle
* Drive axles
* Cardan
* Gear box
* Engine Block
* Crank
* Conrods
* Pistons
* Cylinder heads.
* What is MKB/Renntech exactly dooing when they reinforce the
block
* Why do the Renntech Hiboost system requires close to the doubble boost to reach the same out put as a Kleemann system.

" Anything more than 15% power increase is too much ",

Please explain the members of this board, what exactly happens
when power gains exceeds 15%.

Did it ever occour to you that the CLK GTR is a race car with an engine constructed for race and extreemly high engine revs.
Please explain the board why you feel it's fair to compare such a race engine to a normal street car engine with 6200 rpm as max.

Did you ever drive a 600 biturbo or AMG 65 your self ??????.
Did you ever had first hand experience with one of these cars
on a dyno ?????.
If you did, I am 110% sure you will agree with me in this, which I have first hand experience with, when building the KLEEMANN S 60 K ( V 12 bitorbo - 620 HP - 1000 NM ).
You can read in magazines, that this V12 engine will put out 1000
NM under 2000 rpm. ( BRABUS press release )
Mabye thats possible in an engine bench, but on the road this is far from facts. Accelerating the car from a dead stop, it will shoot out like any V 12 car from 0, between 2500 and 3000 rpm the 1000 NM comes ( with ESP off ) it will loose the rear end at 60 - 80 km/h in the middle of the acceleration on a dry road, it feels incredible Then the turbos and ECU are build to drop boost,
so over 4000 to max 5800 rpm, the boost will drop which means the power, torque dissaperes and the upper revs. feels flat and disapointing.
Giving a car 1000 NM between 2500 and 3500 RPM isn't good for anything other than loosing traction and destroy the driveline, it's much better to launch the car with 6-700 NM and then get the high Torque and HP in the higher revs, which will accelerate the vehicle much faster and spare the drive line for a lot of stress.

I have no idea where you get your info from, but it seems to me you get it from press releases ect.ect., just remember AMG also have a product to sell and they try to make their products / developments into someting very special and unique for one reason... to sell cars.

A lot of us posting on this board, have spend the best half of our lifes tuning MB / AMG cars, we have had every single little screw
in our hand, for some reason I don't belive you have the same.
If you can explain to us in details the above, you will earn my respect ( and I belive others as well ).

I will be looking forward to see you post, in the mean time have a great weekend