albanianbenz

After reading through several threads I never found one with someone trying to do a top mount twin turbo set-up in an E55. I know in my 99 E55 it looks as though there is enough room to make it work by relocating the winshield washer tank. I was thinking two Garrett GT30r ball bearing turbos would be the best fit because they will spool fast enough to ge some low end power and enough top end.

I only saw people running STS/rear mount turbo kits thru threads on here. So the questions is what is the problem with doing a twin turbo top mount? I know it may cost a bit more, but is there something I am missing? Whats everyone's thought on the turbos I'm thinking about?

If this has already been discussed I apoligize but couldnt find a thread with it discussed.

AMS Performance

Its a lot more headache than its worth ... you are much better just extracting more power out of the car NA. If you really want to upgrade simply sell your car and buy a newer AMG, they are so cheap these days its difficult to justify spending more than a few grand on mods. rear mount turbos are terrible and have always been lackluster at best, avoid them at all costs.

If you aren't a full stage 4+ NA e55 then you still have lots of room to upgrade the performance of your vehicle. Once you've done all the power mods then you can get into drive-line mass reduction (lighter wheels, and lightweight brake rotors).

hope that helps.

albanianbenz

The way I added it up it would be about $6k for everything minus a tune. Is that a far off estimate thus I'm missing something?

I don't want to spend money going na then end up wanting more. I'm used to my 550whp m3 but looking for the Mercedes to be my torque monster with turbo feel. I drove a w211 e55 and it was great but not what I'm looking for at the time.

I definitely don't want the rear turbo setup. The way I see it the tuning will most likely be the difficult part. Again I may be overlooking something else.

kustom2k1

Custom turbo setups are costly due to the engineering involved. Parts alone can cost 2500 and that's with 2 little turbos intercooler piping hoses clamps etc. The time to fab headers alone can cost upwards of 3k to 4k...unless flipping the stock exhaust is an option (seen mustang owners do this). If I had a jig, welder, and an engineering background I'd be in my garage day and night cause that 55 engine with a slight reduction in compression would be a monster. In reality a shop probably wouldn't even consider the job for less than 10k.

Then again you can spend 1k and spray the bytch

albanianbenz

That's what we were thinking is flipping the manifolds by swapping the left and right. That will be one of the biggest factors as it will save a lot of money and make this possible.

Schweinhund

I suggest going for a used W211 with the blower and convert to turbos on that one. The long block is already setup for pressurized induction which is key to getting a lot more out of a turbo setup. Lower compression, sturdier block, etc. Unless you rebuild and lower the compression on the W210 engine, you won't be able to gain nearly as much.

albanianbenz

Not really looking to go with a w211.

AMS Performance

you can run it on a stock NA compression 5.5L AMG, you just have to turn down the boost to reasonable levels (most likely 6-8psi at most). Underhood engine bay temps will get ridiculously hot though and not burning the paint on your hood may be a whole different issue you may have to deal with.

albanianbenz

Yeah that's right around the boost we were thinking of doing. How much to you think "functional" hood vents would help? Aesthetically I don't know if they will end up looking good on an E class but if it makes a noticeable difference I'd do it.

What's your opinion on the turbo choice?

slownrusty

I think you are a little shy on your $6K figure.

Let's see:

1) 2 x Garrett GT30R = $1,250 each = $2,500
2) Manifolds = Hand fabricated = (Easy) $2,000
3) 2 x Blow Off Valves = $250 each = $500
4) 2 x Wastegates (TiAL) = $400 each = $800
5) Intercoolers = Big unkown = air to water or air to air..either way well over $1,000
6) Plumbing, piping, rising rate fuel pressure regulators, tap oil pan, gauges, misc = $1,000 (easily)
7) Custom exhaust, down pipes = $1,500 (easily)

Rough total parts *ONLY*: Almost $9,500 and rising

How do you plan to control detonation and pull timing back under full load? Full engine management...? Another $1500 + dyno time...

This project will easily be well over $12K...neat but very expensive..been there a few times with projects past and present. It adds up very quickly.

armaniE55

+1

Honestly squeeze out the HP/TQ out of the NA engine. It will cost you a lot less and you don't have to burn so much money. Pulley, short or long headers, exhaust, lighter rims, lighter battery, kill the spare, see if you can grab a used Renntech airbox, top it off with a nice Tune and you will be one happy camper . You could even upgrade the brakes to Brembo- if you wanted to......

All for way less than 10k-

Armani

SilverarrowE55

Been overseas for a few years thanks to our govt. Just logged in and saw this thread. Don't kid yourself into thinking that this will be cheap. I have over $38,000 into my rear mount GT4294R and while I was gone the tuning continued (albeit sporadically). That doesn't include anything but the Turbo, associated plumbing, R&D, and tuning. The R&D to do this properly is not cheap. While I might have been able to save $10k by not getting involved with a crooked shop to begin with, it still would not have been cheap. I have thought of pulling the plug many times and reverting to stock as it still is mainly very peaky in output and not the smooth linear surge that was expected to match the factory toque curve just with greater output. Puts down great peak dyno numbers but that is unimportant to me.. I want smooth curves that allow the car to be used as a trackday demon and that has yet to materialize. All the money that went into HRE's, Brembo's, etc. so far has been for naught.

If the twin turbo 5.5 V8 had existed when I started this project, I would have just gone that route and still may in the future...It would save some headaches in development. Ever since I heard about it being in development, I had second thoughts about my project. It would be SO much easier to just do an engine swap and the necessary computer tuning to get them to all play nicely together. It would certainly be cheaper. I'm sure that Brabus would happily perform this swap as swaps seem to be one of their specialties.

All I can say is that of the 30 cars I have owned almost all of which were heavily modified, I would never do this project again in hindsight. It has been more of a headache than anything else and kept me from enjoying the E55.

AMS Performance

well said silver arrow

armaniE55

Hey buddy,

Glad to have you back well there you have coming right from the source. I have been on here for a while and seems that everyone who decides to go to the dark-side (engine mods) it becomes a nightmare.... I think Abalone is still having issues with his SC in sync with everything else.

For me all that's left is headers and tune and off to the next project.. and little stuff like Depo headlights
CL55 or newer E55.

Well said silverarrow...

Armani

Schweinhund

+1 to the previous three comments. Armani, what's your output right now?

ctravis595

i guess hindsight really is 20/20

https://www.driftworks.com/forum/thr...tc-etc.228440/

this was always my biggest annoyance with mercedes forums, instead of just answering the questions about swapping the exhaust manifolds around, you get countless "don't do it just buy a different car" responses instead

sorry to dig up an old thread but I THINK as these cars are getting cheaper and cheaper that they are becoming a good platform for some quick turbo action. see the link above

NAFT1

Good way to go for someone who wants to gut it, invest in the upgrades to the driveline, maybe. I have worked for teams professional racing series, and done custom setups on both turbo- and non-turbocharcharged cars from the factory; I have never enjoyed driving them on the street regularly. The only exception was my A4 putting down a mild 425 AWHP, it felt like a luxury Evo MR with some decent upgrades, but it was a ****ing nightmare to maintain and work on. It was always blowing off boost hoses because there wasn't enough room for the proper sized clamps, blowing out diverter valves, screwing up vacuum lines and check valves that weren't meant to be attached to the cold end of a MHI 20g compressor, cooking things underhood because of the high temps even with a water cooled turbo, etc. If it's your toy and you are prepared to spend more in the long run than just getting a vehicle that hits your targets from stock or with a few bolt-ons just for the novelty of it, go right ahead.There is nothing wrong with that, unless you think that you are going to daily drive a twin-turbo E55 that eats GTRs and ZR1s and still maintain the drivability and reliability that it is so renowned for.

ctravis595

i feel that and let me first say thanks for the educated opinion, these forums seem to be dead lately. I have a habit of sounding a bit abrasive when things need fo be stirred up haha

and see, a modest setup like you describe on the A4 is about what I’m looking to do. I found someone who boosts a lot of m113’s and is selling a turbo kit, he can also get me in the ballpark with an ecu tune. I’m sure I’ll need a really extensive dyno/tune day to really get things perfected, but it’s a start. He’s willing to let the system go for cheap too.

I was thinking maybe 5/6 psi boost max,, I dont need a ten second car, I’ll probably never get that with my heavy *** W215. but I’m really attached to my 215 and the n/a 55 engines just don’t keep up with the modern cars like the m113k’s still do

and for anyone who will undoubtedly say “just get a m113k” half the reason I want to do this is the fun of it. So does anyone know if the manifolds can be flipped? Lol otherwise I was immediately thinking of rear mount setup to avoid dealing with manifolds and engine bay heat

NAFT1

The bolt drillings on the flange are offset around 30-ish degrees clockwise from the centerline of each port; you will not be able to bolt it up short of welding the holes, drilling new ones, and then surfacing the flange. After that, I couldn't say whether the ports would line up properly or the outlet would clear the valve cover. It would seem easier to use the existing flange and weld a custom manifold to it.

ctravis595

I don’t just mean flipping them backwards, is this still true if I switch driver side to passenger AND flip them upside down? Every time I try to visualize the possibilities I get confused

BlownV8

I've done custom forced induction and, since MB already has forced induction on their engines, it will be cheaper and more reliable to buy one of those vehicles. The CL600's will make over 500 RWHP with a good tune only and those are very affordable less the ABC system. I understand the attachment to your car since you poured your heart and soul into your current ride but cut your losses if you want more power. It's a road that will be much more expensive than you think the budget will be for the custom system. Now, if you are good enough to do all the work yourself, you may come out about the same as selling yours and upgrading to a forced induction MB built vehicle.

Either way, good luck and build a duplicate so you can sell to help recoup some of the costs. Keep us in the loop on your progress if you decide to go the custom route.

ctravis595

Good thinking about selling duplicate kits

im sure with the price point of these cars now i could sell a few kits

but i will say I don’t agree with selling my car for one reason mainly, getting another 20 year old 215 is a gamble in my opinion. Unless you pay top dollar for a low mileage one

on these cars the brake lines start rusting, body starts rusting(corroding, more specifically) water damage happens a lot on these and 220’s, electronics issues, etc I’m just not interested in taking that risk. I know the few things that are wrong with my car like the back of my hand, im confident they can be repaired/restored

if i I bought another 215 I would spend 7 or 8 hours just taking things apart to inspect the undercarriage etc

NAFT1

ctravis595

HAHA i waiting for a link to that same video to pop up. Coolest thing about his set up is going from 30 to 40mm manifold ingress

edit: I’m thinking i should contact some folks who have made short headers for these engines to see what they think about flipping them backwards , might be the easy route . If I had a welder I’d probably do what’s in that video

NAFT1

Wish I could tell you. It certainly looks like they might match up, but until someone tries it I don't know. I think having some made could be the better route; if you make the flanges yourself, it could be fairly inexpensive as far as things go. That will give you exacting control over where the turbos are placed. You are still going to need waste gates; either integral or external, and this is going to mean a good deal of custom welding anyhow. Add in some V-band clamps to make clocking the turbo easier; you're going to be putting on and pulling it off more than a few times during this process.