T-Roll

I dropped my vehicle off last Thursday for an intermittant starting problem. We agreed that the mechanic would need to have diagnostic tools hooked up when the issue arises in order to identify the problem.

Then I get a call Friday afternoon saying he took my vehicle on a host of errands...to this location and that location...but could not replicate the issue.

The thing that is bugging me is I didn't give him permission to drive my car on errands. As stated above he'd have to have diagnostic tools hooked up (in his shop, right?) in order to identify the problem, so why would he have my car out on errands? Is this normal for mechanics to do, especially without asking permission? I'm a bit put off by it.

Maybe I am overreacting? Or do I have a right to be taken aback by this?

I'd appreciate anyone's input who'd like to pipe in...

Thanks.

Schweinhund

I would think not.

CharlyE500

Personally I wouldn't mind so......

wpgfordguy

If it's an intermittent starting problem yes... with the unspoken understanding that he will be nice to it. how else is her going to replicate the problem without using it under normal circumstances.

mfletch69

in that situation, I would not have a problem with that

Schweinhund

I would prefer he keep it in the shop and try to start it every 30 minutes.

T-Roll

First off, I appreciate all of the replies so far - they give me other perspectives - which are often tough for me to see and / or accept.

That being said, if you said it was okay for him to take it on errands...then what would set you off? For instance, what if he drove 10 miles on errands? No big deal for you guys, I'm sure. How about 20 miles? 30? 40? What if he had an errand 40 miles away and drove it 80 miles? At some point I'd think you guys would have an "uncle" point where you'd say, "Hmm, this doesn't seem right."

It appears me and Schweinhund's uncle point is leaving his work garage without permission! Certainly if it is a brake job or the like and they need to test-drive it to make sure everything is operating a-okay that makes sense. But I was highly surprised to hear about "errands" if he had to have diagnostic tooks hooked up to it...i.e. unless he brought diagnostic tools with him and connected them every time (I'm not savvy in this area so I'm not sure how realistic this is or not), then "errands" didn't have anything to do with fixing the problem, according to his own logic. It just caught me off guard, especially since I just met him and we didn't have a past working relationship (if it were a long time mechanic that you knew and trusted I could see being completely fine with this, obviously). Finally, he did come recommended by a BMW dealer I trust, so it wasn't a random find on my part.

amo1858

Most shops charge a flat fee, usually one hour, to diagnos problems like yours. This does usually include driving the vehicle, since heat plays a major role in no start conditions. If the shop had charged for actual time involved most individuals would not pay. Especially since driving the vehicle around and stopping and allowing it to sit for five to ten minutes to allow for heat soak then drive it again and then not experience the problem. Many technicians would use this,drive, stop and wait time to run their own errands since they are trying to simulate your errands. I do however think the shop should have explained this a little clearer for you.

Strigoi

I work at a motorcycle shop and our techs will run personal errands while on test rides or trying to replicate a problem. I personally don't see what the big deal is as long as they're not out beating on the vehicle.

xlr8tin

Now, you are overreacting. If you have a problem like this it is in your best interest to let him drive it under normal circumstances to replicate the problem. Obviously, he did this. To then exaggerate and say, "what if" is going to far.

Point is did he fix the problem or not?

xlr8tin

Agreed. If they already have to go out to drive it I don't personally care either as long as they don't mistreat.

EyesofThunder

Read this: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...ff-creech.html

I would say NO.

A friend of mine worked at a shop and his boss (the shop owner) used to regularly take customer cars home at night. One Sat morning my friend came in and had to open up the shop himself because his boss wasn't there.... He took a customer's 80's W123 home and was driving drunk and wrecked it. And had it towed back to the shop.

The customer had come in early to see his/her W123 in shambles..... His boss didn't come in and wouldn't answer his phone.

My friend promptly called up all his friends and asked them to bring a u-haul to come help him get his tools (3 huge rollaways) and he quit on the spot.

So NO, under no circumstances, unless specifically written up to do so, NO, they should NOT be driving around...

desired_speeds

I don't see a huge problem with it as long as they don't beat on the car. Hooking it up to a computer cannot replicate your problem. However, I do feel that he should have said I'll check over everything for you instead of just mentioning hooking it up to the computer because it gave you the wrong impression.

Schweinhund

I would say that if the errands are nearby, to a local warehouse to pickup something, and driving it is necessary, no problem, Otherwise it begins to be exploitation and exposes them (and you) to risk.

wpgfordguy

It is unlikely that doing that will replicate the intermitent problem, real use might.


I've been in the car business, ( ford dealer ) for 25 years.

These types of intermittent problems are the hardest and most frustrating to diagnose for both the customer and the technician.

Either you trust the place you are dealing with, or you don't. Make life easier for you and the shop by setting what your expectaions are, and be clear with them. But cold starting an intermittent no start in the parking lot is a waste of your time and the shops. Maybe it only does it after being run for 22 minutes at 80% humidy after driving at city speeds folowed by a short freeway (legal) run.

You need to use the car "real use" to find this stuff 80% of the time.

xlr8tin

Wow, that's a little extreme! Just because you heard that story doesn't mean it happens all the time

MBFLO

i havnt took my car to dealer for service since ownership . never had to but i have previus dealer records and clearly stated service advisor drove car home at 40mile each way for the night to check for the stutter , bogging out , jerking gremlin some of us have .. and still couldnt figure out the issue after changing just bout everything from maf to wire ,plugs , o2 sensors , but yea 80 miles .. sh*t my daily commute isnt that long , id be iffy about it .

hyperion667

I think you'd have a right to know if they were out in your car....
does seem like it needed to be investigated by driving.....but personal errands?
NO......I would also be put off by this.........
but I also would attempt some diplomacy to assure a good job gets done on the repairs....

hope it works/ed out

Schweinhund

I agree on the "trust your shop". Imperative.

I have been working on my own cars for 26 years. Ford 351 Clevelands, 5.0 Mustangs, Volvo Turbos, Hondas, and now this Merc.

I can't tell you how many times I have rebuilt a Borg Warner T5 in my driveway or shimmed out the HVAC clutch in the 850 Turbo compressor.

Intermittent problems are the worst but driving the car around until they manifest should come second to idling to full warm up and longer. In fact, in some cases, idling will heat soak the engine and bay far better than driving around. Now the jarring from driving may bring out some problems but in this case the mixing of errands and "diagnosis" would put me off too.

T-Roll

Once again, thanks for all of your replies. I'm definitely opinionated and can be thick-headed, so it is really interesting to me to read others' points of views.

Meant to add earlier: this is a private shop to whom I was referred by a dealer that I trust for one of my other vehicles.

One of you asked, "Point is did he fix the problem or not?" The vehicle is still with him. I'd not heard from him since last Friday so I called him this morning. He reported a new symptom (it stalling out while at idle; something that has not happened to me at all) that concerns me, and he still has no idea what is causing any of the problems. Interesting that the problem has apparently worsened while the vehicle has been under his watch; I hope that is legitimate.

People have to earn my trust over time; I don't walk into relationships, business dealings, etc. with 100% trust up front. I've found that doing so sounds great in theory, but invites entirely too much risk for my liking in the real world.

CharlyE500

Very true, it takes time to earn the trust. I think you should consider looking at other indy shop. Anybody here can refer a good one in SanDiego area ?

James@ACG

Let me know if we can be helpful, we have two Mercedes AMG certified technicians, and also the factory SDS tool.

xlr8tin

Kinda sounds like the crankshaft postion sensor with that new symptom

Ausmbtech

In theory this works, In reality it doesn't


I wouldn't have a problem with them driving it around under those circumstances

snooozie

I think, nowadays, most shops would not allow anyone working in their shop to drive a customers car around unless it's for diagnostic problems. If I am a shop owner, I would not want the liability on having something happen to the car outside the shop. My indie guy would lock all the cars in the shop bays before closing for the evening. And the ones outside would be park closest to the shop. I would definaely be pissed if I found out that one of theguys working there took my car home at nite and or drive around with it through out the day.....my two cents.