W210 AMG Discuss the W210 AMG's such as the E50, E55, and E60

How much power can be made NA?

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Old Nov 3, 2020 | 07:03 PM
  #51  
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Thanks. Well let's see.

It will be mated to a 6 speed manual, and it's not in a 210 either. I only started the thread here as I thought it would be the best place to discuss na m113's...
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Old Nov 3, 2020 | 07:05 PM
  #52  
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01 E55
Originally Posted by Hooblah
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Are we looking at the same page? This is a mild cam by any standards. They class it as a sport cam, but list further options that are a lot more 'radical'.
Yikes!! I didn't see the tabs at first.. the first one on the second tab (4003605) that one is going to have some chop behind it, but it's also on a 108 lobe center, you'd kill a bit of it if you could get that one on a 112, maybe a 115. but it's still going to be pretty damn lopey at idle FOR SURE. Also, a converter will be a MUST at that type of cam.

The rest are kind of all over the place, and I don't think you're looking for a mechanical conversion cam.. seems like it'd be more of a headache than it's worth. The one dude recommended isn't a bad choice for the parameters you seem to be setting for yourself. However, there are options madeby them that will absolutely get you where you're looking to go on the power front.. BUT you will be giving up idle quality for sure, maybe a touch of driveability. but that last is very subjective. What are you willing to deal with.. when I was younger.. I would deal with a lot of crappy driving motors because they made power.. I'm far less concerned with squeezing every last bit of power out of something I'm looking to drive on the road on the regular. But again.. there isn't a wrong answer here.
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Old Nov 3, 2020 | 07:07 PM
  #53  
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01 E55
Originally Posted by Hooblah
Thanks. Well let's see.

It will be mated to a 6 speed manual, and it's not in a 210 either. I only started the thread here as I thought it would be the best place to discuss na m113's...
This changes things a good bit, at least as far as the whole converter discussion. Just throw that right out the window! lol Now it's just a matter of what kind of idle quality you're hunting for, and also what a cam will ultimately "clean up" as rpm goes up. Will it clean up at your final drive freeway operating rpm? That's going to be your big question..
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Old Nov 3, 2020 | 07:16 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by 90lxracer
This changes things a good bit, at least as far as the whole converter discussion. Just throw that right out the window! lol Now it's just a matter of what kind of idle quality you're hunting for, and also what a cam will ultimately "clean up" as rpm goes up. Will it clean up at your final drive freeway operating rpm? That's going to be your big question..
Now that's a good question. A question I can't answer because I have no experience. Fine if I was in the US, plenty of modified v8's running around that I could look at and experience. Not really the case here in the UK. The majority of people have never owned a v8, and even less modify them with aftermarket cams. There are obviously people I can speak with on forums, but would it make a difference from engine to engine? I.e. would a certain grind on one engine behave or feel different on something else?

Cruising rpm would be between 1k-3k. At 70 in 6th I'm likely to be at 3k. But even cruising around town I like to stay in a high gear and keep rpm down as low as possible.

Last edited by Hooblah; Nov 3, 2020 at 07:19 PM.
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Old Nov 3, 2020 | 07:23 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Hooblah
Now that's a good question. A question I can't answer because I have no experience. Fine if I was in the US, plenty of modified v8's running around that I could look at and experience. Not really the case here in the UK. The majority of people have never owned a v8, and even less modify them with aftermarket cams. There are obviously people I can speak with on forums, but would it make a difference from engine to engine? I.e. would a certain grind on one engine behave or feel different on something else?

Cruising rpm would be between 1k-3k. At 70 in 6th I'm likely to be at 3k. But even cruising around town I like to stay in a high gear and keep rpm down as low as possible.
I know you definitely have to be worried about the piston to valve clearances in these motors also.
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Old Nov 3, 2020 | 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hooblah
​​​​​​
A cam expert.
Didn't you profess to be some sort of expert record holder? I'm sure you don't need advice on cam selection from anyone.


Are we looking at the same page? This is a mild cam by any standards. They class it as a sport cam, but list further options that are a lot more 'radical'.
Never said I was an expert, just always like learning new info, or prospective of others. I was just trying to help you with cams.

PTE made the best cams for 113, but good luck finding there info. He only made about 20 sets. Usually gain 25whp on an na113
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Old Nov 3, 2020 | 07:32 PM
  #57  
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01 E55
Originally Posted by Hooblah
Now that's a good question. A question I can't answer because I have no experience. Fine if I was in the US, plenty of modified v8's running around that I could look at and experience. Not really the case here in the UK. The majority of people have never owned a v8, and even less modify them with aftermarket cams. There are obviously people I can speak with on forums, but would it make a difference from engine to engine? I.e. would a certain grind on one engine behave or feel different on something else?

Cruising rpm would be between 1k-3k. At 70 in 6th I'm likely to be at 3k. But even cruising around town I like to stay in a high gear and keep rpm down as low as possible.
For the most part, cams that are the same grind sound less radical as the engine gets bigger. Using American V8s as an example, a cam with same that 230 duration at .050 in a 350 will sound healthy, in a 406-434 (common SBC sizes) it will sound pretty mild, but you'll know it's there, in a 283, it'll sound like a beast. lol

So, if you're hunting for a sound/idle, look for things of roughly the same displacement, same number of cylinders, regardless of the make, and look for different cams. The easy one is in the chevy 350, but it frankly doesn't matter. find a sound you like, then search those cam specs.. it'll get you in the ball park. There's TONS of youtube videos of people with "my 350 with "x" cam" just see what they're talking about... Talk to the catcam place.. see what they have to say as well. What I personally think would be kind of a cool cam, is a combo of their 2 hot cams.. but the 236 on the intake side, with the big cam's lift, and but the 244 duration on the exhaust with the lower lift. Put the thing on like a 110-112 lobe center and let'er rip
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Old Nov 4, 2020 | 07:17 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Hooblah
It will be mated to a 6 speed manual, and it's not in a 210 either.
I, for one, just got a little more interested....whats the build?
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Old Nov 10, 2020 | 01:37 PM
  #59  
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Rennsport Factory in the UK just posted on Facebook ITB set ups for m112 and m113 engines
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Old Nov 10, 2020 | 03:24 PM
  #60  
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It's going into a 190e.

Lol rennsport factory. 400% markup for reselling products. I'll make my own for 10% of what he charges thanks.
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Old Nov 10, 2020 | 03:27 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by 90lxracer
What I personally think would be kind of a cool cam, is a combo of their 2 hot cams.. but the 236 on the intake side, with the big cam's lift, and but the 244 duration on the exhaust with the lower lift. Put the thing on like a 110-112 lobe center and let'er rip
Why specifically that combo?

I've tried watching vids on YouTube of various cams. Most of them are choppy af.
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Old Nov 10, 2020 | 03:37 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Hooblah
It's going into a 190e.
AWESOME

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Old Nov 10, 2020 | 03:39 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Hooblah
It's going into a 190e.
Having had a 190e in years past, I approve this message. That will be an absolute riot to drive.
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Old Nov 11, 2020 | 10:52 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Hooblah
It's going into a 190e.

Lol rennsport factory. 400% markup for reselling products. I'll make my own for 10% of what he charges thanks.
E9X M# ITB almost fit perfect. just need to make an adapter. Check out Garage764 on instagram
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Old Nov 11, 2020 | 11:22 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by eurochargedw210
E9X M# ITB almost fit perfect. just need to make an adapter. Check out Garage764 on instagram
Who do you think garage764 gets its inspiration from?
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Old Nov 11, 2020 | 11:49 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Hooblah
Who do you think garage764 gets its inspiration from?
Oh my bad . Do you have Instagram?
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Old Nov 11, 2020 | 12:17 PM
  #67  
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Lol I joke. Yes, but I don't use it.
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Old Dec 2, 2020 | 02:51 PM
  #68  
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https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-mercedes.html

Just some food for thought, looks like one person in this thread already found that one though...
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Old Dec 16, 2020 | 09:48 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by eurochargedw210
what do you mean no compromise? You can email them, tell them what you are looking for and they will recommend a cam. You have to under stand, you can get crazy with lift in these cars, with the valve and piston clearances.

The 4003613 is what the recommend. There has been at least 5 different companies over the years who made cams for m113. I would not go with VRP or Race Iq, cams.

The 4003613 cams, need new springs also, and make power from 2500 to 7000, with a slight lope.
Originally Posted by eurochargedw210
Never said I was an expert, just always like learning new info, or prospective of others. I was just trying to help you with cams.

PTE made the best cams for 113, but good luck finding there info. He only made about 20 sets. Usually gain 25whp on an na113


Oddly enough, “PTE” cams were actually “VRP” cams. Different company I assume, but here are the part numbers if anyone needs to verify a used set. Also, FYI it was 40 sets.

Best of luck achieving your goals!
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Old Dec 16, 2020 | 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dre5373


Oddly enough, “PTE” cams were actually “VRP” cams. Different company I assume, but here are the part numbers if anyone needs to verify a used set. Also, FYI it was 40 sets.

Best of luck achieving your goals!
Yes they are the same specs. But who knows where they are made now, and the hardness and proper coating
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Old Dec 16, 2020 | 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dre5373


Oddly enough, “PTE” cams were actually “VRP” cams. Different company I assume, but here are the part numbers if anyone needs to verify a used set. Also, FYI it was 40 sets.

Best of luck achieving your goals!
Most everyone VRP sales is pure Chinese junk, or a knock off of another companies parts.
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Old Dec 16, 2020 | 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dre5373


Oddly enough, “PTE” cams were actually “VRP” cams. Different company I assume, but here are the part numbers if anyone needs to verify a used set. Also, FYI it was 40 sets.

Best of luck achieving your goals!

Have you installed these in an NA113 or 113k, with a dyno?
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Old Dec 18, 2020 | 11:12 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by eurochargedw210
Have you installed these in an NA113 or 113k, with a dyno?


Jake felt no need to adjust the custom EC dyno tune after the cam install as he felt the ECU was adjusting well. The cams alone dropped me from a 12.345 @ 113.50 to 12.105 @ 115.56
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Old Dec 18, 2020 | 11:16 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by dre5373


Jake felt no need to adjust the custom EC dyno tune after the cam install as he felt the ECU was adjusting well. The cams alone dropped me from a 12.345 @ 113.50 to 12.105 @ 115.56

was this the white c55 that ending up making 377?
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Old Dec 19, 2020 | 08:12 AM
  #75  
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Yes, that was on a dyno jet, this was the last run I ever did though.
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