The Godfather

So my friend says that 19's or 20's on my car will not matter much in terms of performance. I tell him that the stock 18's are the best combo and that 19's may still be ok. But 20's, forget about it, it'll ruin the performance.

What's your take. Educate us both as we both believe in what we believe.

Here's what's been said. I'm thegodfather.


M TheGodfather S: I think 20's will kill performance b/c of weight and diameter
M TheGodfather S: won't put down traction as good as 19 or 18's
KuyaDab: why?
M TheGodfather S: I dont have the scientific fact, but it's just a known fact.
KuyaDab: always just depends on tires u use
M TheGodfather S: true
KuyaDab: its not known
KuyaDab: look at racing
KuyaDab: it just depends on tires u use
KuyaDab: lose traction on wet
KuyaDab: yes
M TheGodfather S: ok true, hence why 20's have less tires thus less good than 18-19
KuyaDab: because most cars can't fit 20s except trucks..?
M TheGodfather S: like you dont see civics race the 1/4 on 18's, they put their stock 15's or whatever.
KuyaDab: ok wait..
M TheGodfather S: im not talkinga bout trucks...
KuyaDab: what kind of racing are u talking about
M TheGodfather S: I'm talking about 0 to 60
M TheGodfather S: 0 to go
KuyaDab: quarter?
KuyaDab: ok
M TheGodfather S: 1/4 whatever, from a dead stop
KuyaDab: do u know the reason of this?
M TheGodfather S: of what?
KuyaDab: using big tires
KuyaDab: in drag
KuyaDab: have u watched the slow motion of a tire in a drag launch?
M TheGodfather S: yes but stock civics dont launch that hard lol
M TheGodfather S: but its the same concept...
KuyaDab: umm.. aem civic?
KuyaDab: thats ****ing fast
KuyaDab: faster than u'll ever get into
M TheGodfather S: i said stock civic clown, not a 7 sec civic.
KuyaDab: oh
KuyaDab: well ok
KuyaDab: still same concept
KuyaDab: the tire is almost flat
M TheGodfather S: ok so what's the point of the conversation, except you trying to own me somewhere?
KuyaDab: since there isn't a need to turn
KuyaDab: they can get more use out of a low pressure tire
M TheGodfather S: I'm saying smaller rim, w/ more tire, is better than larger heavier rim with less tire when it comes to performance.
KuyaDab no
KuyaDab: it only depends in what situation
M TheGodfather S: lower pressure means softer, means mroe tire to hit the ground and stick to it.
KuyaDab: yeah
KuyaDab: but if u turn
KuyaDab: u want a better amount of pressure
M TheGodfather S: well ok what other situation would you think that larger rim to be better?
KuyaDab: which u can't do
KuyaDab: if u have a small tire
KuyaDab: because the walls buckle
KuyaDab: ooh owned ok i win
KuyaDab: lol
M TheGodfather S: yes but im not talking about that kind of racing though...
KuyaDab: i wans't trying to own
KuyaDab: just educate
KuyaDab: ok so how often are you just going to drive straight?
M TheGodfather S: it's just common sense that 18's oin my car will do much better in any situation than 19 or 20.
KuyaDab: 18s may be more universal
M TheGodfather S: 19's might still be ok, but 20's and trying to race, **** that ****...
KuyaDab: doesn't mean that its better in any situation u know what i mean?
KuyaDab: since when do u race?
KuyaDab: ur road rage ****?
KuyaDab: u turn a lot
M TheGodfather S: in what situation would it be not good to have 18s and have 19's or 20's instead?
KuyaDab: the thinner the sidewall.. the more stable the tire is in a high g turn
M TheGodfather S: I dont race, I just care about performance loss b/c of heavier wheels, thinner tires.
KuyaDab: not thinner.. but smaller
M TheGodfather S: true.
M TheGodfather S: like my Iforged tires were perfect
KuyaDab: i read like a whole thing on this
KuyaDab: i don't remember.. it was like a small book.. lol
KuyaDab: ur iforge was good
M TheGodfather S: but im still saying that 20's is for looks more than performance
M TheGodfather S: so are 19s
KuyaDab: eh
M TheGodfather S: 18s is perfect balance.
M TheGodfather S: like your car, 16's will yield the best results. IF you put 20's like the ****** in your comment box, then **** that
M TheGodfather S: well 16 maybe 17's.
KuyaDab: no
KuyaDab: too much buckling
KuyaDab: for a car of its weight
KuyaDab: 18s or 19s would be good
M TheGodfather S: ok so anyway, your point is that 20's on my car doesnt necessarily mean that it'll contribute to a loss in power and performance?
KuyaDab: yeah
KuyaDab: it all depends on tires
KuyaDab: but
KuyaDab: cost wise
KuyaDab: go with 19 or 18
KuyaDab: because good tires for 20s going to cost too ****ing much
KuyaDab: not because one set is expensive
KuyaDab: but because they're ****ing soft and u'll wear them out quick
M TheGodfather S: true
KuyaDab: u know why i liked ur iforge setup?
KuyaDab: http://www.americanlemans.com/galler...race/16_lg.jpg
KuyaDab: see the way the tires mounted?
KuyaDab: they're in more than the rim.. like not as wide
KuyaDab: then again.. he's in a turn
M TheGodfather S: according to this one site change in tire/wheel size, though technically retaining the same ratios **** w/ the "engine rpm and gear ratio"
M TheGodfather S: dunno how accurate this **** is though http://www.geocities.com/gmfwd/pages/tirecalc.html
KuyaDab: everything ****s w/ everything
KuyaDab: technically
KuyaDab: ur supposed to readjust everything
KuyaDab: or have the total tire diameter meet stock
KuyaDa: no matter how big the rim is
KuyaD: so u can't go overboard
KuyaDab: still though.. in some cases ur right htough.. smaller wheels can help because sometimes u need more give
KuyaDa: because if u don't have give.. its like running on wood tires..
KuyaDab: u knwo what i mean/
M TheGodfather S: i kinda lost you
M TheGodfather S: lol
KuyaDabs: ok nevermind
KuyaDabs: from what i'm saying
KuyaDabs: those 20s look sick
KuyaDabs: and i would by them
KuyaDabs: because the majority of what you want
KuyaDabs: is image
KuyaDabs: keep in mind.. before.. u scraped everywhere..
KuyaDabs: therefore.. performance wasn't a factor
KuyaDabs: old rims like before
KuyaDab: would still be good
KuyaDab: comes down to drivability too u know?
M TheGodfather S: before I had an E320.
M TheGodfather S: Now I haev an E55. Different.
KuyaDab: a guy w/ lots of hp.. and 20s.. has to be a better driver than a guy w/ 18s.. because in essense.. he slides
KuyaDab: easier
KuyaDab: in all races.. ur on verge of drifts..
KuyaDab: formula racing.. they drive
KuyaDab: drift
KuyaDab: but u just don't see it
M TheGodfather S: ACtually me on the 235 wide tires now I need to be careful because I slide everywhere lol
KuyaDab: cuz its like a micro drift u know?
KuyaDab: i'm on 223
KuyaDab: 225
M TheGodfather S: but you have a J30...
M TheGodfather S: my car comes stock w/ 275 int he back and 245 front
M TheGodfather S: im runnign 235 all around right now :-(

X55

Looks like you guys are debating between turning performance (your buddy) and straightline performance (you).

In general a "plus x" wheel/tire combo is bad for straightline acceleration, and acceleration in general, because of 1. too short sidewall to absorb the shock load when power is transferred to rear tires (think wrinkle wall slicks), and 2. "usually" a "plus x" tire wheel combo, even maintaining same overall diameter, will weigh more. I say usually because only now are some 19-20 inch wheels available that are lighter than smaller sized wheels because of better alloys, etc. Higher rotating mass (larger, heavier wheels) takes more horsepower to get spinning than smaller rotating mass which is why most dragsters and slicks are on 15-16 inch rims. Ever pick up a 17 inch tire and an 18 inch tire when doing a +1 conversion? The 18 will weigh more.

In general larger wheel/tire combo is better for turning because more of the face of the tread is forced into the pavement as there's less sidewall flex, hence your friend's position.

Basically you're both right but you were arguing with the wrong people

BTW Doc I am a huge fan of your previous work and wish you luck on the repair of your E55. I have a 2001 and am debating between doing 19's or getting some 18's for summer wheels. My stock monoblocks will be doing winter duty. I don't want to lose any ride quality but love the look of the brabus M6 19's, and I have virtually new Pilot takeoffs which would be wasted if I had to buy new tires for 19's.

James F. Cannon

I have 19's on my W210 and do not see a performance difference, specifically in straight line acceleration. My quickest quarter mile time was run on my 19's. But to go to 20's would probably be too much!!

MBE55AMG

19"s I've heard do increase handling capabilities, if not much more, because there's less 'play' between the physical wheel and tire itself. Other than that, the only real downside is a bent rim over a pothole.

The Godfather

Well I'm getting 19's regardless, I was just trying to see if I could own him

X55, the E55 will be as nice if not nicer than the now dead Wald E320