Step up of shut up
04-22-2005, 03:32 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
I was with erickaz when he dyno'd his bone stock '05... he made some 530bhp and 570btq. 30more hp and nearly 200 more torque - most available from 2000rpm on up. So unless the M5 is underrated at 500hp & 385tq it's going to have some big time problems fending off our E55s...[/b]
-m
-m
04-22-2005, 06:01 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
I think you are getting too much into semantics here. You're categorizing what I like in a car using words that make it seem trivial. I would love a 600hp car for everyday. I am very much into cars and associate with a lot of enthusiasts on a regular basis. We hit the highways late at night and the race tracks quite often. A 600hp daily drivable car for me is great because I can do so many things with it. To you, with a different lifestyle, a different line up of cars, it's not the same.
We simply do not have open highway to run here (not unless losing your license in the process).
That's why having a monster straight line performance is very low in my chart. Plus, there are much easier way to have a monster in straight lines other than spending 100K for a W211 E55. A simple 30k IS300 with 20k in mod would outgun even a modded W211 E55. The IS300 engine can be tuned up to 1000HP if you put enough money into it.
Personally I just find it absurd. But everyone's taste is different.
Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
E55 cannot be made to handle like an M5 without extensive and ridiculously expensive money thrown into it. I don't think the E55 tries to handle as well as the M5, as discussed previously.
E55 simply does not suit my needs. That's why to me it underwhelms. For you it is a stellar car, because you have different set of priorities.
Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
You do realize that from a roll, the E55 makes more torque @ 1800rpm than the M5 makes at peak, right? Check the dyno graphs....
Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
I had this happen to me against an SVT Lightning. Thing would jump out on me and I'd have to rev out the gears to start reeling him back in. It was tough and I really had to be focused on rpm and shift points to get the true potential out of the car. Fortunately I've had my experience driving cars and I could usually pull it out - but no one is perfect and it's very easy to slip up.
This is very true. M5 will require a much more skilled driver to max its potential. To screw it up is very very easy especially you don't want to over rev the engine and have it turn itself into expansive pile of aluminum pop corn.
I believe after living with the new M5 for a while, this will become one of my complaints.
Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
This is true... but an E55 will at most use 4 gear (we hit our 155mph limiter in 4th). So if it's from a roll we may both be in 2nd but he'll end in 6th I'll be in 4th. Twice as many shifts... this of couse will vary, but you get my point.
As far as preference goes. Like you have stated. We are just different in preference. For you E55 is better suited. For me M5 is better suited. PEACE.
Last edited by krispykrme; 04-22-2005 at 06:03 PM.
04-23-2005, 05:53 AM
#29
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
I want a total package too
Originally Posted by cte430
Back to Marcus' point. Many of the M fans will say "the MB is just fast in a straight line". The M is the whole package". Whole package? Last time I checked there are some other criteria I look at in a car. Maybe it's just me. Looks, comfort, interior, etc. Isn't that also part of the package? There are sacrifices in everything, and choices have to be made. Since most of my time in the car will be like Marcus (no mountain "twisties" here) I made the choice that was right for me. I do have to chuckle though at many M fans on the M5board (BTW, i'm a member there and have always been treated great and with the utmost respect) who have said "well, the looks are starting to grow on me". I'm sorry, but if I'm going to spend 90K I don't want it to have to grow on me?
Further, if what Marcus says is true, that the SMGIII is not very city traffic friendly, most likely I'll dump the M5. Must take an SMG out for an extended test drive.
04-23-2005, 09:15 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by cte430
This is a great point that many of the M5 fans fail to see. I have stayed out of this "discussion" to this point, since I just don't understand some of the hysteria from both camps. If the M5 is faster, as I expect it to be (would be tough for BMW to come out with a slower car after how many years 
) that fact will not change how I feel about my car. Anyone who bought an E55 simply because it was the fastest sedan out there is a little silly, IMHO. Things change. I'm sure the next AMG will be faster (although I'd rather see them address some of the other issues) and so on.
Back to Marcus' point. Many of the M fans will say "the MB is just fast in a straight line". The M is the whole package". Whole package? Last time I checked there are some other criteria I look at in a car. Maybe it's just me. Looks, comfort, interior, etc. Isn't that also part of the package? There are sacrifices in everything, and choices have to be made. Since most of my time in the car will be like Marcus (no mountain "twisties" here) I made the choice that was right for me. I do have to chuckle though at many M fans on the M5board (BTW, i'm a member there and have always been treated great and with the utmost respect) who have said "well, the looks are starting to grow on me". I'm sorry, but if I'm going to spend 90K I don't want it to have to grow on me.
For a little bit of a different perspective on this whole thing. The other night I was reading all this stuff while my wife was watching TV next to me. She's certainly no car enthusiast, but does know about AMG and the "enemy" LOL. I let her read some of the threads. She looks at me and says: "these are grown men who can afford a $90K car, arguing about how many 10ths of a second one is faster than the other?" "Pretty much", I said. Her next question: "how many people and how often do you get to extract all the performance these cars are capable of, that they talk about in these tests"? My answer: "almost none and almost never I would think". "But you still argue about it"?, she asks. "Of course we do". Her final comment before walking away in total disgust (women, they just don't get it!): "So, while you're sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on the LIE one of these days a new M5 is going to pull up along side you, and what, hold up a magazine showing the tests that he's faster than you"?
) that fact will not change how I feel about my car. Anyone who bought an E55 simply because it was the fastest sedan out there is a little silly, IMHO. Things change. I'm sure the next AMG will be faster (although I'd rather see them address some of the other issues) and so on. Back to Marcus' point. Many of the M fans will say "the MB is just fast in a straight line". The M is the whole package". Whole package? Last time I checked there are some other criteria I look at in a car. Maybe it's just me. Looks, comfort, interior, etc. Isn't that also part of the package? There are sacrifices in everything, and choices have to be made. Since most of my time in the car will be like Marcus (no mountain "twisties" here) I made the choice that was right for me. I do have to chuckle though at many M fans on the M5board (BTW, i'm a member there and have always been treated great and with the utmost respect) who have said "well, the looks are starting to grow on me". I'm sorry, but if I'm going to spend 90K I don't want it to have to grow on me.
For a little bit of a different perspective on this whole thing. The other night I was reading all this stuff while my wife was watching TV next to me. She's certainly no car enthusiast, but does know about AMG and the "enemy" LOL. I let her read some of the threads. She looks at me and says: "these are grown men who can afford a $90K car, arguing about how many 10ths of a second one is faster than the other?" "Pretty much", I said. Her next question: "how many people and how often do you get to extract all the performance these cars are capable of, that they talk about in these tests"? My answer: "almost none and almost never I would think". "But you still argue about it"?, she asks. "Of course we do". Her final comment before walking away in total disgust (women, they just don't get it!): "So, while you're sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on the LIE one of these days a new M5 is going to pull up along side you, and what, hold up a magazine showing the tests that he's faster than you"?
At least this tone of conversation is constructive, informative, and civil...
I drove home from golf yesterday and while I was driving off of I75 a single tear came down my face as I demolished the highway with my slower, untossable, and outdated E55...at least I was comfortable as I wept
.
04-23-2005, 06:06 PM
#31
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04 E55 tectite grey/charcol....traded 01 E55
I find these posts childish...does anyone really care which car is faster...the majority of e55 owners don't track their cars and bought the AMG because we wanted a fast exclusive comfortable sedan. If the BMW is .05 sec faster or takes corners at 1G...who really cares. Both cars have amazing potential that most of us will never use. I personally don't like the looks of the new M5 and took my name off the wait list. I decided the Aston amv8 will be my next ride.
jeff
04 e55
04 range rover
93 MB 500e
recently sold 02 M3 cabrio
traded 01 e55
jeff
04 e55
04 range rover
93 MB 500e
recently sold 02 M3 cabrio
traded 01 e55
04-23-2005, 09:58 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
You do realize that from a roll, the E55 makes more torque @ 1800rpm than the M5 makes at peak, right? 
Check the dyno graphs...
Check the dyno graphs...Multiply the dyno torque by the overall gearing and then you might find some useful information
04-23-2005, 10:47 PM
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MBenz
i agree with jefrose. this thread is childish. don't know yet, but 99% m5 e60 should be faster than e55 and the new eXX will be faster than m5 and so on... that's the way business does. and you guys have to get over with and stop thinking about "the beast" non-sense. beast is out there in the jungle and a car has its lifespan. so stop this nonsense. doesn't matter what car it is, if the driver sucks then it sucks!!! for me, i love both mercedes & bmw. PEACE.
Last edited by lpolo; 04-23-2005 at 10:49 PM.
04-23-2005, 11:11 PM
#34
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SL 65 AMG and E63s AMG
I've got "the whole package". My 550 HP Nitrous injected Vette, with no springs, which I drive on the "twisties" and will pull alot more than a 1G lateral acceleration on perfect weather days and my E55 for all the rest of the time.
My point is that no car can do everything perfectly but the E55 sure does get close.
If the M5 drives as stiff as my M3 I wouldn't like it for my family car. (By the way I wonder why the M5 has 4 doors since it sounds like a lot of people are getting them to use as a "sports car")
My point is that no car can do everything perfectly but the E55 sure does get close.
If the M5 drives as stiff as my M3 I wouldn't like it for my family car. (By the way I wonder why the M5 has 4 doors since it sounds like a lot of people are getting them to use as a "sports car")
04-24-2005, 02:51 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by Vetluver
If the M5 drives as stiff as my M3 I wouldn't like it for my family car. (By the way I wonder why the M5 has 4 doors since it sounds like a lot of people are getting them to use as a "sports car")
plus i think its cool to have a great 4 door car that handles well.
04-24-2005, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jefrose55
I find these posts childish...does anyone really care which car is faster...the majority of e55 owners don't track their cars and bought the AMG because we wanted a fast exclusive comfortable sedan. If the BMW is .05 sec faster or takes corners at 1G...who really cares. Both cars have amazing potential that most of us will never use. I personally don't like the looks of the new M5 and took my name off the wait list. I decided the Aston amv8 will be my next ride.
jeff
04 e55
04 range rover
93 MB 500e
recently sold 02 M3 cabrio
traded 01 e55
jeff
04 e55
04 range rover
93 MB 500e
recently sold 02 M3 cabrio
traded 01 e55
Amen!!!!!!!!!!
04-24-2005, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by reggid
but what about torque to the ground, dynos show torque for a 1:1 overall gearing which isn't really relevant.
Multiply the dyno torque by the overall gearing and then you might find some useful information
Multiply the dyno torque by the overall gearing and then you might find some useful information
Having a high torque engine just means that you will get better acelleration at low engine speeds. The torque that matters, as you point out, is the torque the car puts to the ground through the gearing. The M5 actually produces more torque to the ground than the E55 because it is able to use much higher gearing.
High engine torque such as on the E55 allows the car to run higher horsepower at lower engine speeds, so the car seems more 'relaxed'. The M5 requires higher engine speeds to generate the horsepower, which is one of the reasons the 7 speed SMG is so important.
These cars really have two different personalities. Both cars are powerful and luxurious to drive normally. The change happens when you push the pedal to the floor.
