adx

All this talk about the new M5 when people should be talking about the new CLS65 (600+hp V12TT) which should blow the doors off of the new M5.

Here is an article from Edmunds regarding the CLS65.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/d...rticleId=105395

Also, here is a picture of the CLS65 from a post in the CLS55 forum:
https://mbworld.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=106204

a_ok2me

Nice clip. I own an M5 - thank you. Given your own link to the clip, the fact was that the M5 won objectively, but lost subjectively - just as tested by Gustav and company. I really like the CLS and might have also chose it subjectively, despite the objective results. Also, the SLK makes the Z4 look like crap. But, the hood on the CL looks like it belongs in another car. The E55 is nice, but has too much plastic/foam on the interior. I really like the current renaissance in Merc styling and can’t stand the new BMW Bangle designs. However, I hate the previous Merc styles. It's all opinions. You know what Dirty Harry said about opinions.

However, I disagree with your claim that M5 owners cannot ignore the facts. In general, from all that I have read, M5 owners seem a little more cool tempered with this topic. Probably because they are being a little reserve until they see more data and because they have seen a glimpse that the M5 has a leg up on the E55. There's nothing more they need to say about the cars. However, I know they all would love to comment on the kiddish complaints that goes on here, but surprisingly most of them don't comment much on it.

I'd say to several - not all - here to stop whining, like some loser that just got beat up, about the new M5. I conceded to the current E55, despite it's unnatural power - subjective. It's (E55) still a nice car. Fess up to the objective results and feel free to talk all you want about your subjective views. Don't say, "…wait for the new E63". M5 owners will just say the same about the M5 after. It's all about here and now. I could have said my E39 M5 devestated the previous E55, but who cares anymore?

Gustav

Improvis you are unbeleiveable, but I also kind of enjoy reading your posts here that is why I continue to answer you. You are good at finding numbers in papers

You are comparing with SL55 AMG and CLS55 AMG, cars that never have been discussed! It is like I would drag up tests M6 times and tell that the M6 would beat the E55 times.

For the second time in a reply to your posts: we are talking the E55 and M5 here. Please keep the discussion focused.

Regarding banning members DerekFSU is not banned, he posted today on my site...

Also your comparisons with Gulag and the Soviet to a forum for exclusive cars is just tragic and shows your knowledge about history.

Still, I have doen the tests and you have not even seen the new M5.

adx

Gustav,

Any comments on the CLS65 (V12TT)?

Erik

LOL winner yes..... based in a subjective pointscale.... But faster NO.
Nothing to disagree on there.

I would have expected you to se the difference.


Whos is slinging mud ? LOL

And please stop lying to make a point, Gustav does not bann members on regular basis for. Please try and keep you statememts remotly close to the truth.

Neither has this nothing to do with freedom of speech.



LOL


This is the same test you used earlier in you post Impro. This is a video made of the test Auto Motor & Sport made. M5 was faster in everything but lost on point. Thats OK. The departement that it won is the most important factor for potential M5 owners anyway.




Well to be honest Impro, I had expected a better responce than this from you.

You pick something here and there and try to make the worst of it.

And to include the incident regarding the E39 vs CL55, what does that have to do with anything.......

But I have to give you credit for collecting numbers.

reggid

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=53500

Look at the autocar test 12.8 @119mph,... pretty quick i'd say, you yourself said the best judge is trapspeed because who knows what the surface conditions were at the time.

Find a test of E55/CLS55 vs m5 same day etc with plenty of data points and use excel to calulate distance vs time and that will tell you with reasonable accuracy the margin at whatever period in time you like its not difficult to do, its just a matter of finding reasonable data.

enzom

FWIW - good post.

Erik

Its also a difference to how the european test.

"We" do not run on a 1/4 track that are mostly well prepped for such event. They use a normal track, airfield normaly full of dust. That is not helping traction one bit.

Furthermore we use eqipment that start to meassure at the tinyest bit of movement of the car. If I have not missunderstood completely on a 1/4 track the times is measured from when the car break the beam. I think I read somewhere that was refered to as the rollout factor. I have no clue if that is correct, nor do I know how much difference that give. But since every singel 1/4 time I have seen on several different cars are always slower in Europe ( Germany mostly) than the times in the US it must be relatet to the testing method.

Probably the time to speed are less efected by this than the time to distance, maybe.....



Small question.

If car A runs the 1/4 track in 12.4@115 mph and car B runs it in 12,6@118......
What car is fastest.?

Erik

Agree

Belmondo

In that case-- NOW its nowhere HERE. YOu can cross US from Boston to San Diego, from Miami to Seattle and find one big ZILCH here and now.



Can you tell at lest how many sold NOT HERE by NOW? Or are you clueless?

Belmondo

Personally I'd like to know performance at all speeds , if available. I remember there was many posts here about SL55 being faster than some Ferrari from 0 to 300kl/h and if remember correctly, only after certain speed did SL55 pull away.

For me, its a load of BS that comes with just about every description of given test or M5 ingeneral.
Like the clown, who was telling here or there that with a push of a button in a second M5 felt to him just like S class. Surly I will never believe that M5 in its softest setting with stock 19" can match S class on 16" or 17" that is a FACT. Even 745 with 18" stock 19" optional can never do it. BS like that just does not add credibility to his statement.
I'd say the dude never been in S class but uses this crap as description.

Also, I still don't understand why "friend" of E55 owner is posting while the actual owner is MIA? Why are there BS about: "I e-maild him, here is his answer", but no dude in "flesh"?

Who here, would not want to know from the E55 dude the datails of the race? Who would not want to know at which point the E55 dude started to fall behing and how did it all feel from inside the E55, when did he slamm it and so on. Just purely out of interest, who here would not want to know Dude's impressions from inside the car??


Honestly, do you want 100 posts from Erik/norway and m&m or ONE post from E55 dude?

THere is ERIK from Sweden who rented the airfield and there is some arguments between him and gustaff as to some results.

Than there is Erik from Norway , who's clueless and just here to pass what he thinks......... Two Eriks, can we just have the one from Sweden who rented the field and was there?? Can Erik from Norway chill a bit , ignore this whole thing if only for a day or two because he is not likely to change anybody's opinion here anyways.

Instead, Erik here does all the talking....... or the ohter "smart and likable " dude from M5 board will show up here to "reason" with you and tell you: "Hey, E55 is faster than my old E39 M5, so now you do the same for new M5 versus e55, go ahead, say it".


I think if gustaff did not fk up the test -----it would have been a great source of information for people who will not see the car for a long time in their countrys. Instead its a subject of an argument, with erik and m&m, two I have no interest to learn from in this case.

Gustaff basically tells you hey, I dont give a fk that I'm posting on US MB board where you AREe interested in the result from 0 to 1/4.

He'll tell you M5 pulling away after 120, as if one does not have to get to 120mph first .

My opinion on it is that there is nothing happening between 0-120 to report, so he is pushing the "after 120 part so hard".



If gustaff came and said: "hey there is not much happening from 0 to 120mph but after 120 " I will break you"-------- would there be any arguments? I doubt it . Its the selective crap that I disagree with.




Listen Erik/ norway, if you want to help, go find that E55 owner, because you seem to think that the more you post the more believable it makes things and its not.

M&M

Your wish is my command. Here's the comments from the E55 camp & the link to where he posted it:

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=44940

Erik was kind to let me drive the new M5 and boy it was fast.
It feels lighter than it is and thats nice. The grip in the rear is very good even it has 507hp and rear driven. The SMG in fastest mode is crazy, its big bangs every time it change, I love that bang every time. As all M cars it is so easy to powersteear. The 997 S was suprisingly fast and keept up well, and is my choice. Its slower than M5 of course but than again funnier to drive, even on a straight line!
We came in an E55 kombi wagon and E55 sedan and last the 997 Carrera S whit ceramic breakes.

The M5 dident feel fast when driving it, but boy it is fast

We in the E55s got spanked all time against the M5.

One time we was 4 persons in M5 and my freind was alone in his sedan E55 and we were even after a long time. But in the end of the air field the M5 was winning by a car leghts. Thats strong of M5.

Even my friends 510 hp techart porsche got passed by a tiny bit by M5. But my guess the are pretty even steven.

We all that was at lunda take it for what it is, i mean the car that give gas first when rolling starts is geting away first. Its not 100% accurate. But the thing is that allmost every time the M5 came out as fastest of all the cars at lunda(not faster than the crazy Ruf)

We did rolling starts from 20, 50 and 100 km/h


Love to hear what excuse you come up with next.

Gustav

Who said I "fk up the test". What do you base this on? My impression of you is that you refuse to accept anything I say. See my earlier posts why a standing start was not done more than once. Once it was done and the ESP was off on the MB = bye bye. Video is upp this evening so you will see.

You have to accept that we do it to suit European needs, not the drag strip need of the E55 crowd.

This is getting ridicoulous. Or actually it was already a week ago.

Belmondo

I said.
I hope that the "video" of the "buy-buy" will be from the end of runway, at the finish, so that everyone can clearly see those 10-15 car lengnt that some magazines posted. I hope your vedeo is not like those pictures from behind where you and Eric arguing who is faster.
Also please translate right now what do you mean by "buy-buy" is it 10 car lengnt or is it by a nose?

If you want everyone in US to accept "Euro needs", surly you should accept the disagrements coming from "drag strip E55 US crowd" than.

Why do you want to be "understood" but refuse to "understand" ---is that also because you are European?

Gustav

Bye-bye = E55 lost very bad.

It iwll be filmed formm within hte cars which is clearly the best way.

I live in Europe thereby "Euro needs". We dont have many drag strips and more differences.

Your last question is too ignorant to even reply too.

Belmondo

Ok, very clear now.

I think every auto magazine should switch to gustaff's way of postin g results of the auto tests what else do you have?

We now know:

"buy-buy"= very bad

NOw what does " very bad" mean............


What do you have for "not bad" and "not very bad"

That is fked up description of test results, dont you think, or it suits your European needs just fine?

Read auto magazines and see if data/results can be presented any better.

Gustav

Sorry, meant "bye bye". A video will present it perfectly sicne not too many of you MB fans seem to accept numerous written accounts.

Again in this discssuion: try ´having this discussion in a foreign language and see how it goes.

Belmondo I dont know if your questions contribute too much in this debate.

Bubbaboy

Gustav you seem to enjoy belittling my car...I'm very excited about the new M5 and your choice words even **** me off.

JD

SoulBladeZA

You guys sure are giving Gustav a hard time. He has NEVER insulted any of you, not even remotely. When the video is up, we shall see. If he is in fact proven right , then you should apologise no? If he is lying then we can all flame him together. I see no reason for him to do so, he has way too much to lose. Just my 2c.

M5KILLR

what the heck does he have to lose? he doesnt let AN EVEN REMOTE AMOUNT OF DISAGREEMENT on his board but can come here and call us "ignorrant." anyone here calling him "ignorrant" would have been banned on his site instantly!!! a multi billion $ company chooses to use him to promote their car, gets special invitations for no discussions of other cars on his board allowed?!?!?! what am i missing sonny? except the fact those cars are still in your sig and is embarrassing.

Gustav

peter b you were banned because of your behaviour not your feelings towards the brand. FYI I have a forum on my site that is called "Competitors to the M5".

Improviz

I must say that I'm better at it than you are at changing the subject and evading. To wit:


Extremely lame, even by your standards. You seem to be unable to grasp the point, which is that if the SL55, with the same engine, gearing, and heavier weight, can run dead even with the fastest M5 tested in acceleration tests, it is laughable for you to suggest that a stock M5 with four on board would run away from a lighter E55.

As to the CLS55: the CLS55 is an E-class chassis, and again shares the motor, transmission, and gearing with the E55. Two key differences are: 1) it is heavier; 2) it has poorer aerodynamics.

I.e., if by 130 mph the M is only 0.8 ahead in TIME TO SPEED , it is NOT going to run down and blow by the CLS55 OR the E55 in the manner in which you're describing it..

UNLESS it is a MODIFIED CAR.

To further prove this point, I did provide data from a Euro test of an E55, which of course you also ignore.

There are two possibilities here: either you guys are incapable of comprehending my argument, or else are intentionally avoiding it because the numbers show that what you're claiming is implausible, but I'm not going to let you change the subject.

The point is that I've shown data from multiple tests which proves that cars which were MUCH further apart than these cars.

Erik, rather than waste additional time responding to your laughable post, I would simply point out that you too seem to have difficulty grasping the previous points; I would recommend reading them several times carefully to see if they might hapen to sink in, because for some odd reason, they do not seem to be registering.

And I would also point out that I find your defense of Gustav's censorship to be sad, and your general derision of freedom of speech to be offensive. I'm glad you find it amusing, because my Father enlisted and fought in your neck of the woods for you to have that right. Enjoy it.


For the fourth time in reply to one of yours, unless you are arguing that physics apply to the SL55 and CLS55 but not to the E55, their acceleration data as compared to an M5 is pertinant, for reasons I've given, also multiple times. Further, I did produce data from the E55, which of course you are deliberately skirting, which also shows your argument to be weak.


Do you deny that you DID ban him, falsely accuse him of violation of terms of service, and deleted all of his posts?

Because on our boards evidence of this exists, which you cannot censor.

Answer the question.


Fallacy of assumption. I would stack my knowledge of history against yours any time. Censorship is censorship, and you used it without justification in these discussions.

If it was justified, please provide any evidence of any violation of your terms of service by DerekFSU.

Provide it.

Now.

You cannot, because it does not exist, and you know it.

I.e., you falsely accused someone of something which they did not do, and banned them from your forum, simply becuase you did not agree with what he said.

You were out of line, and apologized for it, but that doesn't hide or excuse the fact that you did it in the first place. Keep dancing around it, but the post proving it is here, in this forum, where you cannot delete or ban it.

But you would prefer to ignore it, just as you would prefer to avoid the double standard I mentioned that you used when I posted on your board, and a member there began flaming me, *clearly* in violation of the terms of service, yet you did not lift a finger to shut him down--but you did threaten me publicly with banning when I RESPONDED to his outbursts. Even after I PM'd you several times, you did not take any action whatsoever to control him.

One standard for BMW drivers, another for Mercedes drivers. And you expect anyone here to take you seriously? Good luck.

Further, you guys hypocritically whine about people's behavior here, when the exact same behavior is rampant on the BMW M5 board. Would you like links wherein BMW guys express hostility towards Mercedes and their owners? I don't see you complaining about this, but when people do it here, you are aghast.

One standard for BMW drivers, another for Mercedes drivers.

Actually, I have, and like the 5 series, I don't like it. But to each his own. Unlike you BMW guys, I don't troll Internet forums badgering people about their subjective opinions.

Gustav

Nice essay.

You seem to be unable to grasp the point, which is that if the SL55, with the same engine, gearing, and heavier weight, can run dead even with the fastest M5 tested in acceleration tests, it is laughable for you to suggest that a stock M5 with four on board would run away from a lighter E55.

Weight has an insignificant advantage in higher speeds. Aerodynamic advantage is alot mroe important where I beleive the SL55 has its advantages over the E55.



UNLESS it is a MODIFIED CAR.




The point is that I've shown data from multiple tests which proves that cars which were MUCH further apart than these cars.

haha, have you shoiwn any times OVER 200 km/h?


I'm glad you find it amusing, because my Father enlisted and fought in your neck of the woods for you to have that right. Enjoy it.

I beleive your father would be uupset if you told him this comparison.


Do you deny that you DID ban him, falsely accuse him of violation of terms of service, and deleted all of his posts?

No but I later unbanned him so what is the problem. Same question again.


One standard for BMW drivers, another for Mercedes drivers. And you expect anyone here to take you seriously? Good luck.

Obviously we have different definitions of quality posts. This is not one of them.

adx

Gustav:

With all this talk about E55 comparison to the M5 may all be moot with the new CLS65 (V12TT = 600+hp) coming out. What's your thoughts on the CLS65 compared to the new M5.

Gustav

A CLS65 AMG will destroy a M5 E60 totally in the straight line. That is common sense. I was interesting to read the Sport Auto Supertest of the SL55 AMG as well as the SL65 AMG with not too much won in seconds on the Nordschleife. I guess that many HP is not really usable.

BMW M says: always make the chassis go faster than the engine. AMG should take notice.

However I heard from a friend who drove the S65 AMG that it is amazing acceleration. 4 people almost on par with the 800 HP Koenigsegg in a spontaneous race.