Got a bunch of mods installed -- drivability problems now, ideas?
05-13-2005, 12:19 PM
#1
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Got a bunch of mods installed -- drivability problems now, ideas?
I have a 2003 E55 and for sometime I have had just K&N's, the S55 intake tube, and the superchips software which allowed me to muster a 12.1@115 SAE w/ 1.84 60-foot.
I recently had Evo sport headers, by-pass pipes, phelonic spacers, limited slip and a Hennessey pulley that apparently adds 3psi.
I am getting some very strange and inconsistent performance out of the car now. Sometimes the tranny & engine don't engage and the car feels like it is in limp mode and the car literally takes 7-8 seconds to go from 0-60mph, other times from a roll the car doesn't downshift and the same things happends, about 25% of the time the car runs like it should.
These observations are from about 8-10 blasts in 50 degree weather with about 2-5 minutes of cool down in between.
From 0mph and other points I tried the S and M mode and well as w/ and w/o Traction control on -- under all circumstances the car does not respond as I would expect it.
I was wondering if the issue is the speedtuning software? Timing? Issue with 02 sensors reading more flow -- no warning lights or malfunctions are on.
Btw, Hennessey claims that the stock software will allow 40 rwhp from the pulley mod alone -- no need for tuner software. Perhaps true?
What do you think the issue and resolution would be? Thank you guys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just got a 2004 E55 with about 10,000 miles on it. I was eager to get a stock baseline chassis dyno test before upgrading it. So today I took the car over to Hennessey Performance here in Houston, TX. They had built a few Vipers for me in the past and I went to them to get the baseline dyno numbers.
While there they told me that they offered a pulley/belt upgrade which would gain more power. I thought that this could not be done without first upgrading the computer. But they told me that the stock computer would compensate for the 3 psi increase in boost. So we went ahead and did a test on the stock motor and got a peak power of 427 rear wheel hp in 4th with the power running around 410 rear wheel hp thru most of 3rd gear.
The guys at Hennessey offered to install their pulley kit while the car was still on the dyno. A couple of hours later we dyno'd the car again and I was very happy to see a peak gain of 40 rear wheel hp and solid gains of over 30 rear wheel hp across the board. I drove the car back to my office after the dyno pulls - about 20 miles thru traffic. The car still runs like stock, no check engine lights, etc. And it goes noticably quicker, especially from a roll.
Anyway, I am pretty impressed for a mod that cost me under $2k installed with before and after dyno testing. I also got to keep my stock pulley and belt if I ever need to put it back to stock.
Attached is a dyno sheet of the before and after rear wheel hp numbers. We are going to try some exhaust mods and maybe some headers in the next few weeks.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/105442-gained-40-rear-wheel-hp-my-e55-today.html
Attached Images
I recently had Evo sport headers, by-pass pipes, phelonic spacers, limited slip and a Hennessey pulley that apparently adds 3psi.
I am getting some very strange and inconsistent performance out of the car now. Sometimes the tranny & engine don't engage and the car feels like it is in limp mode and the car literally takes 7-8 seconds to go from 0-60mph, other times from a roll the car doesn't downshift and the same things happends, about 25% of the time the car runs like it should.
These observations are from about 8-10 blasts in 50 degree weather with about 2-5 minutes of cool down in between.
From 0mph and other points I tried the S and M mode and well as w/ and w/o Traction control on -- under all circumstances the car does not respond as I would expect it.
I was wondering if the issue is the speedtuning software? Timing? Issue with 02 sensors reading more flow -- no warning lights or malfunctions are on.
Btw, Hennessey claims that the stock software will allow 40 rwhp from the pulley mod alone -- no need for tuner software. Perhaps true?
What do you think the issue and resolution would be? Thank you guys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just got a 2004 E55 with about 10,000 miles on it. I was eager to get a stock baseline chassis dyno test before upgrading it. So today I took the car over to Hennessey Performance here in Houston, TX. They had built a few Vipers for me in the past and I went to them to get the baseline dyno numbers.
While there they told me that they offered a pulley/belt upgrade which would gain more power. I thought that this could not be done without first upgrading the computer. But they told me that the stock computer would compensate for the 3 psi increase in boost. So we went ahead and did a test on the stock motor and got a peak power of 427 rear wheel hp in 4th with the power running around 410 rear wheel hp thru most of 3rd gear.
The guys at Hennessey offered to install their pulley kit while the car was still on the dyno. A couple of hours later we dyno'd the car again and I was very happy to see a peak gain of 40 rear wheel hp and solid gains of over 30 rear wheel hp across the board. I drove the car back to my office after the dyno pulls - about 20 miles thru traffic. The car still runs like stock, no check engine lights, etc. And it goes noticably quicker, especially from a roll.
Anyway, I am pretty impressed for a mod that cost me under $2k installed with before and after dyno testing. I also got to keep my stock pulley and belt if I ever need to put it back to stock.
Attached is a dyno sheet of the before and after rear wheel hp numbers. We are going to try some exhaust mods and maybe some headers in the next few weeks.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/105442-gained-40-rear-wheel-hp-my-e55-today.html
Attached Images
05-13-2005, 12:45 PM
#2
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2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Have to ask one quick question....is the car fine at first and slowly degrades with each run....then you've got heat soak problems. Solution is the EVO cooler mod or at least a high flow pump to keep temp more steady.
4 Mins cool down with the hood closed really does about 0 to cool the motor down without hood open as the motor is pretty sealed. If you wanna try an experiment....try throwing an ice bag on the blower with hood open for 5-10 mins after you get the sluggish performance.
Also check that tube!!! Mine didn't fit quite right and was sucking red hot engine bay air....killed performance.
Other than that, it sounds like ECU software issues. That's why I went one maker for everything....if I choose EVO, I would go all EVO recommended parts....I went Kleemann and stuck with Klee ECU which is tested and tested to work with their mods.
Last thing....yes could be a sensor...we've had guys that have had one simple sensor replaced and the car just totally wakes up.
Sorry she isn't jamming like she should be....something's up....you'll find it.
The tranny and engine thing definitely sounds like software.
4 Mins cool down with the hood closed really does about 0 to cool the motor down without hood open as the motor is pretty sealed. If you wanna try an experiment....try throwing an ice bag on the blower with hood open for 5-10 mins after you get the sluggish performance.
Also check that tube!!! Mine didn't fit quite right and was sucking red hot engine bay air....killed performance.
Other than that, it sounds like ECU software issues. That's why I went one maker for everything....if I choose EVO, I would go all EVO recommended parts....I went Kleemann and stuck with Klee ECU which is tested and tested to work with their mods.
Last thing....yes could be a sensor...we've had guys that have had one simple sensor replaced and the car just totally wakes up.
Sorry she isn't jamming like she should be....something's up....you'll find it.
The tranny and engine thing definitely sounds like software.
05-13-2005, 02:27 PM
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E63 biturbo
Henessy said that their mods would run fine with the stock software, not with speedtuning software. My guess is that your car might need a some remapping by speedtuning to take into consideration the increased boost, or convert it back to the standard map.
05-13-2005, 02:40 PM
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'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
From the looks of things, all the mods your car has have worked well on cars w/ stock ecu. I would look into the chip first. Was it matched to your vehicle? This is why I'm so iffy on chip tuning. Unless it is done on a dyno and on the street in your car, its gonna be a ballpark thing and you'll never get the most out of your car.
05-14-2005, 09:59 AM
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2012 C63 Coupe Iridium Silver
Chip tuners are dodgy. I always think to myself - why would some aftermarket chip tuning company, who doesn't even make engines, be able to tune a chip better than Mercedes or AMG?
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05-14-2005, 10:26 AM
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E63 biturbo
Originally Posted by tommaey
Chip tuners are dodgy. I always think to myself - why would some aftermarket chip tuning company, who doesn't even make engines, be able to tune a chip better than Mercedes or AMG?
Cos chip tuners specialize in providing performance. AMG and Mercedes have to take into consideration many non-performance issues for a production car.
05-14-2005, 10:32 AM
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04E55AMG, 05Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab, 02Montero Limited
Originally Posted by e55 baller
I have a 2003 E55 and for sometime I have had just K&N's, the S55 intake tube, and the superchips software which allowed me to muster a 12.1@115 SAE w/ 1.84 60-foot.
I recently had Evo sport headers, by-pass pipes, phelonic spacers, limited slip and a Hennessey pulley that apparently adds 3psi.
I am getting some very strange and inconsistent performance out of the car now. Sometimes the tranny & engine don't engage and the car feels like it is in limp mode and the car literally takes 7-8 seconds to go from 0-60mph, other times from a roll the car doesn't downshift and the same things happends, about 25% of the time the car runs like it should.
These observations are from about 8-10 blasts in 50 degree weather with about 2-5 minutes of cool down in between.
From 0mph and other points I tried the S and M mode and well as w/ and w/o Traction control on -- under all circumstances the car does not respond as I would expect it.
I was wondering if the issue is the speedtuning software? Timing? Issue with 02 sensors reading more flow -- no warning lights or malfunctions are on.
Btw, Hennessey claims that the stock software will allow 40 rwhp from the pulley mod alone -- no need for tuner software. Perhaps true?
What do you think the issue and resolution would be? Thank you guys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just got a 2004 E55 with about 10,000 miles on it. I was eager to get a stock baseline chassis dyno test before upgrading it. So today I took the car over to Hennessey Performance here in Houston, TX. They had built a few Vipers for me in the past and I went to them to get the baseline dyno numbers.
While there they told me that they offered a pulley/belt upgrade which would gain more power. I thought that this could not be done without first upgrading the computer. But they told me that the stock computer would compensate for the 3 psi increase in boost. So we went ahead and did a test on the stock motor and got a peak power of 427 rear wheel hp in 4th with the power running around 410 rear wheel hp thru most of 3rd gear.
The guys at Hennessey offered to install their pulley kit while the car was still on the dyno. A couple of hours later we dyno'd the car again and I was very happy to see a peak gain of 40 rear wheel hp and solid gains of over 30 rear wheel hp across the board. I drove the car back to my office after the dyno pulls - about 20 miles thru traffic. The car still runs like stock, no check engine lights, etc. And it goes noticably quicker, especially from a roll.
Anyway, I am pretty impressed for a mod that cost me under $2k installed with before and after dyno testing. I also got to keep my stock pulley and belt if I ever need to put it back to stock.
Attached is a dyno sheet of the before and after rear wheel hp numbers. We are going to try some exhaust mods and maybe some headers in the next few weeks.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105442
Attached Images
I recently had Evo sport headers, by-pass pipes, phelonic spacers, limited slip and a Hennessey pulley that apparently adds 3psi.
I am getting some very strange and inconsistent performance out of the car now. Sometimes the tranny & engine don't engage and the car feels like it is in limp mode and the car literally takes 7-8 seconds to go from 0-60mph, other times from a roll the car doesn't downshift and the same things happends, about 25% of the time the car runs like it should.
These observations are from about 8-10 blasts in 50 degree weather with about 2-5 minutes of cool down in between.
From 0mph and other points I tried the S and M mode and well as w/ and w/o Traction control on -- under all circumstances the car does not respond as I would expect it.
I was wondering if the issue is the speedtuning software? Timing? Issue with 02 sensors reading more flow -- no warning lights or malfunctions are on.
Btw, Hennessey claims that the stock software will allow 40 rwhp from the pulley mod alone -- no need for tuner software. Perhaps true?
What do you think the issue and resolution would be? Thank you guys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just got a 2004 E55 with about 10,000 miles on it. I was eager to get a stock baseline chassis dyno test before upgrading it. So today I took the car over to Hennessey Performance here in Houston, TX. They had built a few Vipers for me in the past and I went to them to get the baseline dyno numbers.
While there they told me that they offered a pulley/belt upgrade which would gain more power. I thought that this could not be done without first upgrading the computer. But they told me that the stock computer would compensate for the 3 psi increase in boost. So we went ahead and did a test on the stock motor and got a peak power of 427 rear wheel hp in 4th with the power running around 410 rear wheel hp thru most of 3rd gear.
The guys at Hennessey offered to install their pulley kit while the car was still on the dyno. A couple of hours later we dyno'd the car again and I was very happy to see a peak gain of 40 rear wheel hp and solid gains of over 30 rear wheel hp across the board. I drove the car back to my office after the dyno pulls - about 20 miles thru traffic. The car still runs like stock, no check engine lights, etc. And it goes noticably quicker, especially from a roll.
Anyway, I am pretty impressed for a mod that cost me under $2k installed with before and after dyno testing. I also got to keep my stock pulley and belt if I ever need to put it back to stock.
Attached is a dyno sheet of the before and after rear wheel hp numbers. We are going to try some exhaust mods and maybe some headers in the next few weeks.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105442
Attached Images
05-15-2005, 01:27 PM
#10
Super Member
My bet is that the throttle body piping isn't installed correctly and there is an air leak(either vacuum or under boost). This would definitely kill the performance and cause the car to behave as you have described. The tricky point is at the rearmost of the engine compartment where the rubber intake piping fits over the throttle body. Also, make sure the tanks were reinstalled properly after the phenolic spacers were installed. I have performed all of my mods myself so let me know if you are still having problems.
05-16-2005, 03:13 AM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
Different mods from different tuners, that is your problem...
ECU need to be adjusted for headers and pullies...
As I have been told by Kleemann before, when the headers installed the boost goes down from 0.9 to 0.7, therefore the tune ECU to bring the boost back...
Get Powerchip ECU for Evo headers and pullies!!!
Other problem could be with a MAFS (mass airflow sensors) or O2 near the Cats and thus could cause the car to run in a lean mode...
You have K&N filter and freeflowing filters are known to let more dirt in and + sometimes after cleaning them, some Oil can get on MAFS as well...
If O2 sensors are bad, then you should get Falsesafe mode...check MAFS sensors at the dealer...See if they read equally...I've had this problem with M5...changed MAFS and car runned great again...
Top get the best out of your mods do ECU anyways...
Good luck...
ECU need to be adjusted for headers and pullies...
As I have been told by Kleemann before, when the headers installed the boost goes down from 0.9 to 0.7, therefore the tune ECU to bring the boost back...
Get Powerchip ECU for Evo headers and pullies!!!
Other problem could be with a MAFS (mass airflow sensors) or O2 near the Cats and thus could cause the car to run in a lean mode...
You have K&N filter and freeflowing filters are known to let more dirt in and + sometimes after cleaning them, some Oil can get on MAFS as well...
If O2 sensors are bad, then you should get Falsesafe mode...check MAFS sensors at the dealer...See if they read equally...I've had this problem with M5...changed MAFS and car runned great again...
Top get the best out of your mods do ECU anyways...
Good luck...
05-16-2005, 08:16 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
I think it probably is the software....going to get it reflashed. There is a chance that at my 20K service the ECU was reflashed. I hope that is all it is.
Performance does not degrade...the car either makes 500+ hp or it makes what feels like 150-200hp...its that noticeable. It still does it sporadically in any gear and from any mph w and w/o track on in M/S/C mode, etc.
I will check the MAF sensor to see it has caused any errors but from the speedo gauge it reads no malfunctions...not sure if that is where it would alert me if there was a problem.
Aslo Oliver at Speedtuning originally flashed my car with the software file to also compensate for a pulley...so my additional mods are really just headers so I wouldn't think that would make a difference if true. On the otherhand if MB flashed my ECU at my 20K service then that would puzzle me if people cars are running fine without any tuner programming.
I will check to see if the throttle body piping isn't installed correctly
and will have my shop make sure the tanks were reinstalled properly after the phenolic spacers were installed.
Thank you everyone for your help.
Performance does not degrade...the car either makes 500+ hp or it makes what feels like 150-200hp...its that noticeable. It still does it sporadically in any gear and from any mph w and w/o track on in M/S/C mode, etc.
I will check the MAF sensor to see it has caused any errors but from the speedo gauge it reads no malfunctions...not sure if that is where it would alert me if there was a problem.
Aslo Oliver at Speedtuning originally flashed my car with the software file to also compensate for a pulley...so my additional mods are really just headers so I wouldn't think that would make a difference if true. On the otherhand if MB flashed my ECU at my 20K service then that would puzzle me if people cars are running fine without any tuner programming.
I will check to see if the throttle body piping isn't installed correctly
and will have my shop make sure the tanks were reinstalled properly after the phenolic spacers were installed.
Thank you everyone for your help.
Last edited by e55 baller; 05-16-2005 at 08:25 PM.
05-17-2005, 10:02 PM
#13
Super Member
I don't care what anyone says about the software etc. Even if the software is stock(worse case scenario) the drivability would not be as you have stated with the 0-60 time feeling as if it were in the 7-8 second range. As Hennesey has stated, the stock ECU can compenstate for a small range of boost increases and fueling issues. You must have a mechanical issue with a boost or vacuum leak to cause such a performance loss.
