I heard recently that MB was testing a new CLS55 on the Nurburing and lapped it at significantly faster times than a Ferrari f430. Am I dreaming? Does anyone have a link to this story?

 

All I keep hearing is how "night and day" CLS and E are in handling. Anyone have a comparison??

Lemme go ask the CLS guys.

Hang on .

 

I traded my E55 in for a CLS55. They do handle differently. The CLS steering is more communicative, and the car definatly pulls more lateral G's. I wouldnt go so far as to call it night and day, but the CLS55 is unquestionably the better handling car. I am sure part of it is the larger rims and much better tires than the POS Contis on the E55.

A CLS55 doing better around the Nurburgring than an F430?? I dont know about all that but we can certainly dream!

 

Let me chine in on this one

Raced and thrashed both the E55 and the CLS55 for two days at the AMG challenge in Miami. I ended up driving the CLS more than the E because I was interested to find out if it felt any different in the handling dept.

Ran very similar times around the track at the challenge in both vehicles. The E felt a little softer, the CLS a bit stiffer. The CLS seeemd to turn in better and faster and definitely pitched less in the turn-in to the infield track than the E. The E feels as if it has a shorter wheelbase (not sure if this is true) and feels shorter. Rear visibility on the CLS is definitely an issue especially with a bunch of fast guys on the track.

In my opinion the difference is not marked but the CLS is definitely more sporty in the handling dept. One would also anticipate that MB/AMG would have made some improvements in the +/- 3 years between the E and CLS releases

Photos of the E and CLS turning in to the in-filed from the banked oval at Homestae speedway http://www.dannysteyn.com/amg-challe...iami-day-1.htm

Just my $0.02

Regards

Siswati

 

Drove them back-to-back at the AMG Challenge and I can say I canceled my order for my CLS55 the next day. The E55 was more fun to drive and it did not have the complete resistance to turning in for the apex that was apparent in the CLS55. The 05 E55 has the faster steering rack and I really noticed that in the cars I drove but I saw no reason to sell my 04 E55 and spend +30k to get into a CLS55.

Plus the car has NO rear seat room! You cannot sit in the back of that car with a helmet on your head. It just does not work

Well my instructor at the event (Derek Hill -- Son of Phil Hill) said that he has to drive the CLS55 harder and brake later just to keep up with the E55's during hot lapping sessions. His speed exiting the banked oval part of the track was 15 mph faster in the CLS (in violation of the rule to stay below 125) because he said that when he stayed at the stated limit the E55 would vanish through the rest of the course and he needed a head of steam to pull a lead on the cars behind him. Eventually the E55's were on our tail the minute the road turned. Clearly he enjoyed the E55 a great deal more than the CLS.

I so wanted the CLS to be a word different than the E but in reality I see little to no difference in the two cars. Given the space of an E it’s the better car. That is... unless you need the style. The CLS is a beautiful any way you slice it…. But its not so good looking as to off-set the added cost and lack of space on the interior.

I cant believe I just wrote this. I always wanted a CLS. Oh well ? Both were great cars but I saw no reason to pay the extra $$$ for the CLS -- or to sell my car and "upgrade."

 

I wanna see them both at the track ( e55 vs CLS55) BUT! Slap same tyre size on E55 and quicker Steering ratio, and firmer suspension... then we'll see, also have anyone heard about this sport pakage AMG will offer now? Its pretty cool

 

that package is only for the CLS not the E

but yes the CLS does have a ton more rubber on the ground but it did not seem to help very much at all.

 

I drove both at the Las Vegas challenge and agree with you all's assessment of the handling of each. I didn't know if it was the fact that I had driven my E55 for 6 mos before the Challenge but I felt that the E55 was much better balanced than the CLS55. Another factor was that both vehicles were equipped with Michelin PS2 and not Contis. I never got close to losing it with the E but swapped ends twice in the CLS. It seemed to me that the suspension of the E had been refined quite a bit more at the time.

What I heard or read on the net was that a more recent iteration of the CLS 55? 65? was tested and lapped Nurburbring 4 seconds faster than the 430. The story may have been typical net garbage but then again I have no doubt that MB could do it if they desire. Whether the bean counters would allow it is another question.

 

i would guess it would slot in between the sl55 and e55 so 8:15~8:20 and the f430 7:55 or so (a guess based on the f360 doing 8:09)

 

did anyone noticed this? lol

 

Not bad for a clunky old four door sedan "oops" coupe. Tell us how you feel after watching this video. I know how I feel, WOW! - Bob

Video under "Top Gear" heading- http://www.mysubprofile.com/mbworld/

 

I highly doubt a CLS would beat a F430 around the ring. Also i also doubt Ferrari has run a F430 on the ring, they do not test their cars there.

 

NO way that CLS can beat new F430 on ther rign or even in straight line...

The Top Gear review of CLS55 is impressive!!!

What do you need to do to make E55 steering to be more communicative and to have quicker steering???

 

We all can transform the handling and ride of our E55's by upgrading to better rims and tires. Even a "mild" upgrade to 18" SL55 (8.5 ET30 and 9.5 ET35) wheels with PS2's has given me a "night & day experience". No need for CLS55 to get "that special feeling". Those of you who have already gone to 19" and 20" should try driving a stock, Conti-shod E55 for a day, to remind you how far your cars have departed from the original car that is continually being tested , compared and often criticised by those jaded motoring journos around the World.

 

If you belive it you are dreaming

If you put Mr Average behind the wheels of both cars, you may get better laptimes in the CLS since I guess it is easier to drive the CLS on the limit than the 430, BUT put Mr Pro in them and it is no contest.

Its just no way in hell a CLS55 would stay with a 430 at the ring.


My estimate is 8 min 15-20 or so for the CLS. Remember the SL65 is clocked at 8 min 14 and it aint likely that the CLS55 is faster than the SL65 is it.

Results in Europe indicate that the CLS55 and the E55 is very close in terms of laptimes.
On a fast 80 sec lap the difference is less than half a second.

 

They have their own course/test track.... Fiorano

 

Repeating others sentiments here, but I drove a CLS first, and an E second at the AMG event down in LA. The CLS is very cramped and my head was literally at an angle because I could barely fit (and anyone in the back seat on the way to and from the track was SOL with their knees).

With the CLS the ride was fun and fast, but the E definitely felt faster and more nimble around the track. Maybe the car suits my driving better, who knows? Second hot lap section I kept on catching the two CLS in front of me (might be the driver's fault more than the car's).

What will be interesting to see is how each of these handle with the new performance package that AMG/MBUSA is selling for next year (upgraded suspension, AMG LSD, and 19" rims). I think its only available for the CLS however.

It surprises me how much $ people invest in extras under the hood, when they really could get a lot more out of their car by paying $$ for a good driving course.

 

Couldn't find a F430 time for Nurburgring - but here are many others:

6:59 --- Ferrari 312T, Niki Lauda, German GP, training (1975)
7:06 --- Ferrari 312T, Clay Regazzoni, German GP, race (1975)
*1.2m longer circuit than standard Nordschleife

6:11 --- Porsche 956, Group C, Stefan Bellof, training (1983)
6:26 --- Porsche 956, Group C, Stefan Bellof, race (1983)
6:41 --- Porsche 956, Group C, Derek Bell
7:50 --- BMW X5 Le Mans V12, Hans Stuck (2001)
*0.232 km longer than current, standard Nordschleife

7:01 --- 176.152 km/h -- Manthey Porsche GT3 race car, 493 hp (2004),
7:06 --- BMW M3 GTR, 24hrs, test session, Jörg Müller (2003)
7:18.1-- Donkervoort D8 RS (12/2004)
7:19 --- Radical SR3 Turbo (2003)
7:20* -- Opel Astra DTM V8 Coupe, set-up for 24hrs race (sport auto 2003) *estimated
7:25 --- Alzen Motorsport Porsche 996, 24hrs race, Uwe Alzen
7:28 --- Porsche Carrera GT, Walther Röhrl, Autobild July 2004
7:32.4 -- Porsche Carrera GT, definitive time by Horst Von Saurma
7:32.5 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO, Wolfgang Kaufmann (2001)
7:36 --- Porsche Carrera GT, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (2002)
7:40* -- Porsche Carrera GT, *estimated time on cold and partially wet track (2003)
7:40 --- Mercedes Benz McLaren SLR, Klaus Ludwig, Autobild July 2004
7:42 --- Radical 1500 SR3 (2002)
7:43 --- TechArt GT Street (2001)
7:43 --- Porsche 996 911 GT3 RS, factory test driver Walter Rohrl, MOTOR Magazine
7:43.5 - Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine, 2002)
7:44 --- Pagani Zonda C12S (07/2003)
7:45 --- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 (12/2000)
7:46 --- Porsche 996 GT2
7:46 --- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (1999)
7:47 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381PS (996) (2004)
7:49 --- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
7:50 --- BMW E46 M3 CSL (08/2003)
7:50 --- Blitz Supra, 750 PS, Herbert Schürg (1997)
7:50 --- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne (1993)
7:50 --- Lamborghini Murcielago (06/2002)
7:52 --- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (1995)
7:52 --- Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (12/2003)
7:52 --- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (06/2004)
7:54 --- Porsche GT3 (996) (2003)
7:55 --- Caterham R500 Superlight (2002)
7:56 --- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale (02/2004)
7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 --- Honda NSX-R - Motoharu Kurosawa, Best MOTORing
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette CE Z06 >>> link
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette C6 (tested by Dave Hill)
7:57 --- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600 PS, racing suspension
7:59 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Performance Chassis) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:02 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Sport PASM setting) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:03 --- Porsche 996 GT3 (1999)
8:04 --- Lamborghini Diablo GT (07/2000)
8:05 --- Ferrari 575M Maranello F1 (12/2002)
8:05 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Normal PASM setting)(Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:06 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:06 --- Caterham 7 Superlight R, Robert Nearn
8:06 --- Subaru Impreza Sti spec C - Motoharu Kurosawa, Best MOTORing
8:07 --- Ferrari 550 Maranello (06/1998)
8:09 --- Honda NSX-R 3.2 (08/2002)
8:09 --- Ferrari 360 Modena (10/1999)
8:09 --- Lamborghini Diablo SV (no ABS?)
8:10 --- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411PS, UK-Spec, no ABS (10/1997)
8:10 --- Donkervoort D8 180R
8:11 --- Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX (video here)
8:12 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG (04/2002)
8:12 --- Porsche 993 Turbo
8:13 --- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS (05/1999)
8:13 --- Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 PS (10/2004)
8:13 --- BMW M5 (E60) (12/2004)
8:15 --- Ruf 911 CTR 2, 520 PS
8:15*-- Holden GTS (2000), *estimated
8:15 --- Porsche 911 Carrera 2 (997) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:16 --- AC-Schnitzer E36 M3 CLS II, 350 PS (11/1997)
8:16 --- AC Schnitzer Z4 V8 Topster (01/2005)
8:17 --- Aston Martin Vanquish (2003)
8:17 --- Porsche 996 C2
8:18 --- BMW Z8, 400 PS (08/2000)
8:18 --- Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (09/2003)
8:18 --- Ferrari F355 (06/1997)
8:20 --- Audi RS6 (2002)
8:22 --- BMW E46 M3 (12/2000)
8:22 --- BMW M Coupe, 321 PS (10/1998)
8:22 --- Mercedes-Benz C55 (07/2004)
8:23 --- Aston Martin DB7 GT (2003)
8:23 --- Porsche 996 Carrera 4
8:24 --- Subaru Impreza WRX STi (2004)
8:25 --- Audi RS4 375 HP
8:25 --- Callaway C12
8:25 --- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VI (11/1999)
8:25 --- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VII (11/2002)
8:26 --- Mercedes Benz SLK 32 AMG (05/2001)
8:26 --- Nissan 350Z (2003)
8:28 --- BMW M5, 400 PS(also confirmed by Motor Commodore magazine, 2000)
8:28 --- Nissan Skyline GTR, 277 PS
8:28 --- Porsche 993 Carrera 2
8:29 --- Mercedes Benz CLK 55 AMG (05/2000)
8:29 --- Audi S4 4.2 Avant (11/2003)
8:30 --- Maserati Coupé Cambiocorsa (10/2002)
8:31 --- Ferrari F355 GTS, 380 PS
8:32 --- BMW M Roadster, 321 PS (09/1997)
8:32 --- BMW Z4 3.0 SMG (05/2003)
8:32 --- Porsche Boxster S
8:32 --- Volkswagen Golf R32
8:34 --- Acura NSX, 276 PS
8:34 --- BMW Z3 Coupé 3.0i, 231 PS (04/2001)
8:35 --- BMW M3 Coupe, 321 PS
8:35 --- Brabus-Mercedes Benz C V8 Sportcoupé (02/2002)
8:35 --- BMW 130i >>> Link
8:36 --- BMW E36 M3 EVO, 321 PS
8:36 --- Alpina-BMW B3 3.3 Coupé (07/1999)
8:37 --- Maserati 3200GT (2002)
8:37 --- Mercedes Benz C32 AMG (09/2001)
8:37 --- Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec, 350 PS
8:37 --- Subaru Impreza GT Turbo
8:37 --- Honda NSX 3.0 (07/1991)
8:38 --- Honda NSX 3.2 (08/1997)
8:38 --- Mercedes Benz SL500 (12/2001)
8:38 --- Porsche 996 Carrera, 296 PS
8:38 --- Brabus-Mercedes Benz CLK 5.8 (12/1998)
8:39 --- Honda S2000 (01/2000)
8:39 --- Morgan Aero 8 (04/2003)
8:40 --- Holden GTS, on an in and out lap (2000)
8:40 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5 Targa Automatic (07/1997)
8:41 --- Aston Martin DB7 (1999)
8:41 --- Audi S3, 210 PS (06/1999)
8:42 --- Audi S4, 265 PS (08/1998)
8:42 --- Lotus Exige (11/2000)
8:43 --- Honda Integra Type R (12/2000)
8:44 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5
8:45 --- Chevrolet Corvette, 339 PS, automatic
8:46 --- Porsche 993 Carrera S, 285 PS
8:47 --- Honda Civic Type-R, 200 PS (11/2001)
8:49 --- Jaguar XKR Coupe (07/1998)
8:49 --- Renault Clio Sport V6
8:49 --- Audi TT 1.8T quattro Coupé, 225 PS (11/1998)
8:50 --- Mercedes Benz E55 AMG (2000)
8:51 --- Mercedes Benz C43 AMG (02/1998)
8:52 --- Mercedes Benz CLK 430
8:58 --- Lotus Esprit Turbo SE (07/1991)
9:09 --- Volkswagen Golf V6 4Motion


TJC

 

Which model of SL55 rim did you go with? Are they wider than the E55 wheels? Was there a weight savings from the E55 wheels? Which kind of the various SL55 wheels are the lightest?