W211 E Class / E55 CF Hood
08-20-2005, 04:20 AM
#226
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2017 S63 Coupe Iridium Silver
Copyright W211 C/F Hood
QUOTE:
"Also, the hoods are only going to be made if we get the 15 people. If you are one of the first 6 to receive it that's fine. But if we don't get the 15 prepaid orders nothing is happening. Also, I cannot guarantee these hoods will be offered any other time. We are possibly going to do this as a one of creation and after the group buy is done, we may not make the hoods again.
on the stock hood."
Since the original 15 deposits are going to be used partly to R & D the C/F hood and partly to manufacture the limited edition of 15 units, shouldn't we form a consortium and protect our investment so that if any more hoods are made for the W211 in the future, for whose design and development we 15 have paid, we get an ongoing royalty? Who owns the final design if we all chip in funds and ideas to create it? Intellectual property is the most valuable thing on earth.
Just a thought, as the C/F guy is certainly not doing it for love...
"Also, the hoods are only going to be made if we get the 15 people. If you are one of the first 6 to receive it that's fine. But if we don't get the 15 prepaid orders nothing is happening. Also, I cannot guarantee these hoods will be offered any other time. We are possibly going to do this as a one of creation and after the group buy is done, we may not make the hoods again.
on the stock hood."
Since the original 15 deposits are going to be used partly to R & D the C/F hood and partly to manufacture the limited edition of 15 units, shouldn't we form a consortium and protect our investment so that if any more hoods are made for the W211 in the future, for whose design and development we 15 have paid, we get an ongoing royalty? Who owns the final design if we all chip in funds and ideas to create it? Intellectual property is the most valuable thing on earth.
Just a thought, as the C/F guy is certainly not doing it for love...
Last edited by Rafal; 08-20-2005 at 04:23 AM.
08-20-2005, 11:57 AM
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'10 E63 AMG
Originally Posted by Rafal
[COLOR=Black]QUOTE:[FONT=Times New Roman]
"Since the original 15 deposits are going to be used partly to R & D the C/F hood and partly to manufacture the limited edition of 15 units, shouldn't we form a consortium and protect our investment so that if any more hoods are made for the W211 in the future, for whose design and development we 15 have paid, we get an ongoing royalty? Who owns the final design if we all chip in funds and ideas to create it? Intellectual property is the most valuable thing on earth.
Just a thought, as the C/F guy is certainly not doing it for love...
"Since the original 15 deposits are going to be used partly to R & D the C/F hood and partly to manufacture the limited edition of 15 units, shouldn't we form a consortium and protect our investment so that if any more hoods are made for the W211 in the future, for whose design and development we 15 have paid, we get an ongoing royalty? Who owns the final design if we all chip in funds and ideas to create it? Intellectual property is the most valuable thing on earth.
Just a thought, as the C/F guy is certainly not doing it for love...
NOW, WHERE'S THE FINAL THREE PLAYERS?!?!
08-20-2005, 02:43 PM
#228
Super Member
carbon fiber article
I figure if sillyAOL has this on their opening screen, it must be a sign from some E55 god that we are on the right track.
Carbon Fiber -- the Next Big Bling
By Chris Woodyard
From entry-level Scions to super-plush Maybachs, exotic and expensive composite carbon fiber is turning into the must-have automotive fashion statement.
"Carbon fiber says luxury, sport and performance," whether used to save weight or just for high-tech looks, says Jason Hill, president of design firm Eleven in Long Beach, Calif., who has worked on Porsches and Mercedes-Benzes.
The material, a black fabric weave held together by a transparent resin, weighs one-third to one-fifth as much as similar-strength steel but is seven to 10 times as expensive, says Steve Loud, editor of Advanced Materials & Composites News.
Replacing steel in a car body with carbon fiber could cut the vehicle's weight two-thirds, according to Energy Department research. The department wants to find ways to halve the weight of a family sedan by 2010, and sees carbon fiber having a key role in that.
Slicing weight would dramatically improve fuel economy and performance, and is why carbon fiber is used in race cars and jet planes.
The material's growing popularity and attractive image mean that demand from auto buyers could speed development of cheaper, faster ways to produce the material. Meantime, its high price brings a touch of exclusivity to cars that use it. That's enough lure that automakers sometimes don't hide the industrial-looking material.
For example, BMW's M6 coupe, on sale in Europe and due in the USA next spring, has an unpainted carbon-fiber roof. Not only does it save weight and lower the car's center of gravity, "it's so beautiful to look at. It has a high-tech feel," says spokesman Rob Mitchell.
"It's a material that designers love because it has all these beautiful visual and structural properties," says Stewart Reed, transportation design chairman at the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, Calif. "We've used it on a lot of projects."
Cars on a high-fiber diet include:
Chevrolet Corvette: The $65,800 Corvette Z06, available later this year, will use carbon fiber in the front fenders, front wheelhouses and floor. Along with other lightweight materials, carbon fiber helps keep the weight of the 505-horsepower speedster down to 3,132 pounds, Chevy says.
Maybach 57S: The 604-horsepower, 172 mile-per-hour version of the $325,000 sedan will offer only two interiors: dark poplar wood or carbon fiber. "Carbon fiber is as exotic as you can get with interior trim. It reeks of performance," Maybach brand manager Wayne Killen says.
Porsche Carrera GT: The $440,000 Carrera GT, to be discontinued this year, has offered a frame that makes extensive use of carbon fiber.
Ford GT: The $140,000 GT has seat frames and a rear-deck panel of carbon fiber.
Ford also assisted in the design of carbon-fiber components for an America's Cup yacht.
Although still used mainly at the high end of the price scale, carbon fiber is gaining popularity in accessories for lower-price cars and small parts of others.
A popular accessory for Toyota's Scion low-price line of youth-oriented cars is a carbon-fiber gearshift knob — even though that small part is $49. Also hot: a $39 carbon-fiber fuel-filler door. Scion offers carbon-fiber appliqués for roof pillars, ranging in price from $75 to 189.
Cameron Hunter, 24, of Long Beach, is adding the shift knob, as well as carbon-fiber pedals on his xB. Outside, he has carbon-fiber skirting. Cost: $400. "It's probably the strongest material for the price available," he says.
Mitsubishi's Lancer Evolution rally-style high-performance car uses a carbon-fiber air spoiler. And aftermarket makers sell loads of carbon-fiber hoods and other body panels to enthusiasts.
Automakers also are using carbon fiber in concept cars. Much of the frame in the dune-buggy-like Jeep Hurricane, which made its debut last January, was made of carbon fiber, says Chrysler Group spokesman Sam Locricchio.
Car companies, chasing the image that authentic carbon fiber brings to a car, also have begun installing plastic interior trim that resembles carbon fiber in cars priced too low for the real thing.
It has begun to replace the standbys, fake wood and faux aluminum, as the trim of choice.
Carbon Fiber -- the Next Big Bling
By Chris Woodyard
From entry-level Scions to super-plush Maybachs, exotic and expensive composite carbon fiber is turning into the must-have automotive fashion statement.
"Carbon fiber says luxury, sport and performance," whether used to save weight or just for high-tech looks, says Jason Hill, president of design firm Eleven in Long Beach, Calif., who has worked on Porsches and Mercedes-Benzes.
The material, a black fabric weave held together by a transparent resin, weighs one-third to one-fifth as much as similar-strength steel but is seven to 10 times as expensive, says Steve Loud, editor of Advanced Materials & Composites News.
Replacing steel in a car body with carbon fiber could cut the vehicle's weight two-thirds, according to Energy Department research. The department wants to find ways to halve the weight of a family sedan by 2010, and sees carbon fiber having a key role in that.
Slicing weight would dramatically improve fuel economy and performance, and is why carbon fiber is used in race cars and jet planes.
The material's growing popularity and attractive image mean that demand from auto buyers could speed development of cheaper, faster ways to produce the material. Meantime, its high price brings a touch of exclusivity to cars that use it. That's enough lure that automakers sometimes don't hide the industrial-looking material.
For example, BMW's M6 coupe, on sale in Europe and due in the USA next spring, has an unpainted carbon-fiber roof. Not only does it save weight and lower the car's center of gravity, "it's so beautiful to look at. It has a high-tech feel," says spokesman Rob Mitchell.
"It's a material that designers love because it has all these beautiful visual and structural properties," says Stewart Reed, transportation design chairman at the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, Calif. "We've used it on a lot of projects."
Cars on a high-fiber diet include:
Chevrolet Corvette: The $65,800 Corvette Z06, available later this year, will use carbon fiber in the front fenders, front wheelhouses and floor. Along with other lightweight materials, carbon fiber helps keep the weight of the 505-horsepower speedster down to 3,132 pounds, Chevy says.
Maybach 57S: The 604-horsepower, 172 mile-per-hour version of the $325,000 sedan will offer only two interiors: dark poplar wood or carbon fiber. "Carbon fiber is as exotic as you can get with interior trim. It reeks of performance," Maybach brand manager Wayne Killen says.
Porsche Carrera GT: The $440,000 Carrera GT, to be discontinued this year, has offered a frame that makes extensive use of carbon fiber.
Ford GT: The $140,000 GT has seat frames and a rear-deck panel of carbon fiber.
Ford also assisted in the design of carbon-fiber components for an America's Cup yacht.
Although still used mainly at the high end of the price scale, carbon fiber is gaining popularity in accessories for lower-price cars and small parts of others.
A popular accessory for Toyota's Scion low-price line of youth-oriented cars is a carbon-fiber gearshift knob — even though that small part is $49. Also hot: a $39 carbon-fiber fuel-filler door. Scion offers carbon-fiber appliqués for roof pillars, ranging in price from $75 to 189.
Cameron Hunter, 24, of Long Beach, is adding the shift knob, as well as carbon-fiber pedals on his xB. Outside, he has carbon-fiber skirting. Cost: $400. "It's probably the strongest material for the price available," he says.
Mitsubishi's Lancer Evolution rally-style high-performance car uses a carbon-fiber air spoiler. And aftermarket makers sell loads of carbon-fiber hoods and other body panels to enthusiasts.
Automakers also are using carbon fiber in concept cars. Much of the frame in the dune-buggy-like Jeep Hurricane, which made its debut last January, was made of carbon fiber, says Chrysler Group spokesman Sam Locricchio.
Car companies, chasing the image that authentic carbon fiber brings to a car, also have begun installing plastic interior trim that resembles carbon fiber in cars priced too low for the real thing.
It has begun to replace the standbys, fake wood and faux aluminum, as the trim of choice.
08-20-2005, 07:18 PM
#229
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Originally Posted by oblax4
I will selflessly forego any future royalty payments in favor of a financial contribution toward ongoing research along these lines for the specific betterment of all Beast onwers, and mankind as a whole in general.
NOW, WHERE'S THE FINAL THREE PLAYERS?!?!
NOW, WHERE'S THE FINAL THREE PLAYERS?!?!
Last edited by Rafal; 08-20-2005 at 10:16 PM.
08-21-2005, 03:53 AM
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2005 E55, 2010 ML350
Originally Posted by BlackC230Coupe
We are still at 12.
Let's get these vents sorted out. A little discouraging that the design is not completely finalized, but the devil's in the details.
here's the original Brabus photo (realizing its for a C55, not an E55).
is there a mechanic somewhere on this forum who can state the best location for the vents? i'm taking my car in for service on monday, i can ask then, but no promises on whether i'll get an answer from my mechanic there. someone else? any input? lets get this ironed out so we can get #14 and 15 on board.
IMPORTANT QUESTION: can some of us order the hood w/o the vents? i'm almost at the point where i actually don't even want them anymore. just a standard OEM W211 E55 hood that I can paint and it looks like a factory hood. please let me know.
Last edited by gmdebruyn; 08-21-2005 at 03:55 AM.
08-21-2005, 04:46 AM
#231
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Originally Posted by Rafal
Since the original 15 deposits are going to be used partly to R & D the C/F hood and partly to manufacture the limited edition of 15 units, shouldn't we form a consortium and protect our investment so that if any more hoods are made for the W211 in the future, for whose design and development we 15 have paid, we get an ongoing royalty? Who owns the final design if we all chip in funds and ideas to create it? Intellectual property is the most valuable thing on earth.
Just a thought, as the C/F guy is certainly not doing it for love...
Just a thought, as the C/F guy is certainly not doing it for love...
I can tell you something like that will never happen. After all this is still a group buy. You guys are not even paying alot of money for the part considering what it is.
08-21-2005, 04:49 AM
#232
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Originally Posted by gmdebruyn
Lucky #13 was just bought.
Let's get these vents sorted out. A little discouraging that the design is not completely finalized, but the devil's in the details.
here's the original Brabus photo (realizing its for a C55, not an E55).
is there a mechanic somewhere on this forum who can state the best location for the vents? i'm taking my car in for service on monday, i can ask then, but no promises on whether i'll get an answer from my mechanic there. someone else? any input? lets get this ironed out so we can get #14 and 15 on board.
IMPORTANT QUESTION: can some of us order the hood w/o the vents? i'm almost at the point where i actually don't even want them anymore. just a standard OEM W211 E55 hood that I can paint and it looks like a factory hood. please let me know.
Let's get these vents sorted out. A little discouraging that the design is not completely finalized, but the devil's in the details.
here's the original Brabus photo (realizing its for a C55, not an E55).
is there a mechanic somewhere on this forum who can state the best location for the vents? i'm taking my car in for service on monday, i can ask then, but no promises on whether i'll get an answer from my mechanic there. someone else? any input? lets get this ironed out so we can get #14 and 15 on board.
IMPORTANT QUESTION: can some of us order the hood w/o the vents? i'm almost at the point where i actually don't even want them anymore. just a standard OEM W211 E55 hood that I can paint and it looks like a factory hood. please let me know.
But about the CF hood with no vents. I originally wanted to do that. Infact, i would still prefer to do that. But for us to do a vented hood, and non vented hood, that will require 2 different molds. I would be willing to make a new mold if 5 more people were wanting a non vented hood. Or if for some crazy reason everyone decided they didn't want vents anymore we can do the OEM hood in CF.
08-21-2005, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackC230Coupe
I can tell you something like that will never happen. After all this is still a group buy. You guys are not even paying alot of money for the part considering what it is.
08-21-2005, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackC230Coupe
Don't worry, i have the vents all taken care of. They will be placed right. I still feel people are somehow taking this hood to serious.
But about the CF hood with no vents. I originally wanted to do that. Infact, i would still prefer to do that. But for us to do a vented hood, and non vented hood, that will require 2 different molds. I would be willing to make a new mold if 5 more people were wanting a non vented hood. Or if for some crazy reason everyone decided they didn't want vents anymore we can do the OEM hood in CF.
But about the CF hood with no vents. I originally wanted to do that. Infact, i would still prefer to do that. But for us to do a vented hood, and non vented hood, that will require 2 different molds. I would be willing to make a new mold if 5 more people were wanting a non vented hood. Or if for some crazy reason everyone decided they didn't want vents anymore we can do the OEM hood in CF.
08-21-2005, 01:24 PM
#236
Super Moderator
Neal you sound very confident in what you're saying about placing the vents, I will trust your word and go with the vents. I know you aren't just another guy with a benz. You mod tastefully and I know you wouldn't do something that you wouldn't put on. As long as it goes with the lines of the Brabus hood I'm fine...
08-21-2005, 03:41 PM
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2004 E55
This question may be asked already, but, will we be able to the stock hydrolic latch to hold the hood up ? In another words, is the CF strong enough ?
08-21-2005, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Yeah you will.
I hope you guys get the additional 2 orders soon. If not, maybe I'll just still pick one up and just sell it locally....to accomodate the GB. I hope the hood comes out well for all you guys' sake.
back to lurking,
-=PCH=-
08-21-2005, 11:47 PM
#241
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Stock Hood Weight - C/F Hood "Vents" PHOTOS
Originally Posted by BlackC230Coupe
Don't worry, i have the vents all taken care of. They will be placed right. I still feel people are somehow taking this hood to serious.
Price AUD 2400 so allowing for the extortionist margins in Australia and the exchange rate it should be around USD1200 in the US - you guys can check.
That would make the C/F hood very competitive, provided the quality is right.
Also, I reworked my "VENTS" to more closely match the BRABUS proportions.
I am surprised how little debate there is about the appearance of these vents. Guys, once the've made the mould, we've bought it!
I don't agree with the comment here that we are taking this C'F hood too seriously. The hood is the most visible and prominent part of any car. Our pride and joy can very easily become a butt of jokes and a source of ridicule and embarrassment if we "over-mod it". Take another look and decide!
08-22-2005, 09:57 AM
#242
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2003 E55 AMG
Neal,
Definitely show us the "placement" and design of the vents on the hood. I know it wont be possible to please everyone, but, I am expecting to get vents that look like the Brabus ones (start off larger and then grow smaller as the come towards the front of the car). Placement is also important... Please discuss with us where the vents are being placed BEFORE he makes the mold.
I would think that having them placed over top the header area on each side would be the best place for heat dissipation. Not sure why Brabus places them over top of the intake tubes...
Please, let's discuss this when you get a final design on placement.
Definitely show us the "placement" and design of the vents on the hood. I know it wont be possible to please everyone, but, I am expecting to get vents that look like the Brabus ones (start off larger and then grow smaller as the come towards the front of the car). Placement is also important... Please discuss with us where the vents are being placed BEFORE he makes the mold.
I would think that having them placed over top the header area on each side would be the best place for heat dissipation. Not sure why Brabus places them over top of the intake tubes...
Please, let's discuss this when you get a final design on placement.
08-22-2005, 12:13 PM
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'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
I agree with vrus about the appearance. Plus, I dont feel we are taking this purchase too seriously. Quite the opposite, IMO. As much money as some of us have, putting down a $580 nonrefundable deposit on an item that technically doesnt even exist yet is a great leap of faith. Given this, I believe we are entitled to ask questions and make suggestions.
Last edited by medici78; 08-22-2005 at 01:22 PM.
08-22-2005, 03:11 PM
#245
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2003 E55 AMG
Originally Posted by oblax4
Any ideas on how to solicit orders for the final two units? Does anybody know someone interested? Let's get this thing rolling!
08-22-2005, 06:08 PM
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2005 E55, 2010 ML350
Originally Posted by vrus
I believe 1Ender1 already said he was going to buy the last 3 units that were not accounted for. It looks like we are moving forward with this.
The more this lags, the more I tend to worry that this won't be done properly. We haven't seen any drawings yet of what the vents will actually look like. People who are buying the hood are offering pictures and the seller has not yet. This uncertainty and slowness to finalize what we're buying I'm sure only takes away from people's confidence levels.
Are we taking this too seriously? Of course we are. But thats not a bad thing. Attention to detail is how a lot of us got to the point where we can drive these wonderful cars anyway.
1) Can we please finalize what the hoods will look like? Blackcoupe, I'm looking for you to answer what this will be.
2) Is it possible just to get the ventless hoods (i'm one of two people interested in that)?
3) Are we just waiting for two more people to sign up before moving on questions #1 and #2? If so, whats the deadline where we calll this quits and you refund all the money back?
4) Who on the original list has decided not to go forward with the hood (it sucks, but its perfectly alright for you to say you don't want to anymore). Are there any other interested parties?
08-22-2005, 06:32 PM
#247
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Well, after much consideration, and even though the job can get done. I have came to the conclusion I will not offer a vented carbon fiber hood at this time. I have just been getting countless emails from people that are just worried about water issues, and a lot of designs on the vents, such as style and placement. This was going to look EXACTLY like a Brabus hood on in CF, but people still would like to see what it would look like. I am sure if I told you it was Brabus most people would think it actually was. The issue of vents is just not making me to comfortable.
I like people to feel comfortable when purchasing, yet it seems people are worried what the vents will look like. Like I said it would be an IDENTICAL replica of the Brabus hood in carbon fiber. I will not take the risk of having customers feel worried on what the final product will look like, or what affect it will have on the engine with water issues. (with vents). I would have loved to make a hood to show everyone what they look like before taking orders, but after all, I am running a business, and the amount of money I would need to spend to get it done without having pre paid orders will just kill me.
If I knew I would have great return on the hood such as 30+ orders I would have made hoods in advance. But since I am working with Mercedes and not a Honda here, I know the market is just to small and there are only a select few people out there interested in a carbon fiber hood with vents for a E-Class Mercedes. I wanted to get this done as much as everyone else, after all I am pretty much a salesmen, so I would have loved to sell these hoods to you yesterday, but I will not risk having un happy customers if water was an issue or if people didn't like the design of the Brabus vents in person.
I never had one un happy customer, and I do not want the risk of having 15. So again as much as I hate saying this, the vented CF hood is not longer an option. I will be sending all 13 people who gave a deposit an email in the next day or so. What I can do is an OEM hood in carbon fiber like I originally wanted. But I don't think there will be enough interest. To me the OEM hood in CF is the safest way to go. I thought that would appeal to many more people then a vented hood also, but I guess I was proven wrong. All the people who have left a deposit have not been charged a cent and will not be charged.
If anyone is interested in the OEM hood in CF, then we can start that, but otherwise the idea for carbon fiber hoods for the E-class is be scrapped.
Neal
I like people to feel comfortable when purchasing, yet it seems people are worried what the vents will look like. Like I said it would be an IDENTICAL replica of the Brabus hood in carbon fiber. I will not take the risk of having customers feel worried on what the final product will look like, or what affect it will have on the engine with water issues. (with vents). I would have loved to make a hood to show everyone what they look like before taking orders, but after all, I am running a business, and the amount of money I would need to spend to get it done without having pre paid orders will just kill me.
If I knew I would have great return on the hood such as 30+ orders I would have made hoods in advance. But since I am working with Mercedes and not a Honda here, I know the market is just to small and there are only a select few people out there interested in a carbon fiber hood with vents for a E-Class Mercedes. I wanted to get this done as much as everyone else, after all I am pretty much a salesmen, so I would have loved to sell these hoods to you yesterday, but I will not risk having un happy customers if water was an issue or if people didn't like the design of the Brabus vents in person.
I never had one un happy customer, and I do not want the risk of having 15. So again as much as I hate saying this, the vented CF hood is not longer an option. I will be sending all 13 people who gave a deposit an email in the next day or so. What I can do is an OEM hood in carbon fiber like I originally wanted. But I don't think there will be enough interest. To me the OEM hood in CF is the safest way to go. I thought that would appeal to many more people then a vented hood also, but I guess I was proven wrong. All the people who have left a deposit have not been charged a cent and will not be charged.
If anyone is interested in the OEM hood in CF, then we can start that, but otherwise the idea for carbon fiber hoods for the E-class is be scrapped.
Neal
Last edited by BlackC230Coupe; 08-22-2005 at 06:37 PM.
08-22-2005, 08:36 PM
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2003 E55 AMG
Originally Posted by BlackC230Coupe
Well, after much consideration, and even though the job can get done. I have came to the conclusion I will not offer a vented carbon fiber hood at this time. I have just been getting countless emails from people that are just worried about water issues, and a lot of designs on the vents, such as style and placement. This was going to look EXACTLY like a Brabus hood on in CF, but people still would like to see what it would look like. I am sure if I told you it was Brabus most people would think it actually was. The issue of vents is just not making me to comfortable.
When I saw the picture of the Brabus hood with the vents I was sold that that was what I wanted. If you just tell everyone they are getting vented hood EXACTLY like the Brabus design then there is no problem.
I am sure the confusion stemmed from that post I was talking about...
