ProjectC55

AMEN!

And AMEN!I agree! Consumer Reports will also give some pretty good info.MB owner's please don't read!

"Sarcastic" I guess those ML's especially were more reliable than the X5 hugh! Amazing how folks forget how much problems the ML's and other MB's have given in comparrison.

korveine

Can someone elaborate more about this? How does the Full Maintenance plan relate to the SBC issue?

Thanks in advance.

darren_dallas

I think RezF was referring to the fact that MB has stopped offering a full maintenance plan with model years 2005+ (he was maybe trying to show lack of faith in one's own product on the part of MB), while BMW is still backing their produce with a full maintenance plan.

In addition, the MB cars are still getting more expensive. The sales pitch used to be the MB cars are more expensive because of: 1) status, 2) quality, and 3) service is included.

What's their reasoning now? I love my MB car, but I hate to take it in for service. The MB customer service is so poor (at least in Dallas) it does make me want to switch brands back to BMW. When I would take my 740 in for service I was treated with amazing professionalism and would get great feedback on the progress of my car while in the shop. MB rarely returns phone calls and when they do it's only at 5:00-5:30 pm in the evening.

Cheers,

Darren

stevebez

You can still get maintenance package here in the UK for around $80 / month I think it was equivalent. Problem is mods are a total no-no ... In first few years warranty covers most majors anyway and the services are minor - ... so not sure what benefit that has.

On that issue what is the deal with Kleemann and a K2 for example on warranty ... do Kleemann step up to the plate?

Rgds Steve.

Vetluver

Rez, I don't mean to get into a p---ing war with you but I can only go on my own experiences. I won't buy another Lincoln because of similar quality problems.

BMW had a run of failures with the 3.2 liter engine. They were produced within 3 mos of one another and were related to oiling problems.

There was a website called "mfailure.com" which invited owners to report the engine difficulties. After 3 or 4 mos and 100's of reports BMW muscled that site off the web. Roadfly kept up with it for a while after that.

My dealer told me that it was not a matter of if my motor would fail but when it would. The problem has been solved and BMW gave all those people 100k coverage. My point is that all manufacturers have problems with new models, some more major than others. BMW has had quite a few engine problems thru the years as is well documented by them and publications. I just don't want to be a beta tester for them.

skratch77

its NA

krispykrme

I signed the same agreement when i bought the E55.

Not exclusive to BMW.

krispykrme

I have owned 3 BMW previously. None of them gave me any major mechanical problem. (one minor issue with O-ring on the E39 M5).

My M3 was outside of the recall range and did not exhibit the blown bearing issues. In fact, I have known quiet a bit of M3 owners that does not have issues with the engine.

Yes, there is a problem with the S54 engine. But it's not widespread like a lot of people here believe it to be.

I had more problems with my W211 than my BMWs. Judging from my experience, MB's quality is far worse than BMW.

mhh

I've just picked up an M5 (traded my C32) a week ago and have done 1,400 km. I putting the miles on as fast as I can as only 5,000 rpm are allowed for the first 2,000km.

I had originally ordered an E55, but along the way I had upgraded my wife's car to an E500 wagon, and I didn't want to have 2 E-class cars in the garage - not enough variety. I've driven the E55 enough to get a decent feel of it thanks the dealer giving me a demo for the afternoon before I placed the order. Apart from the steering and handling, I liked it.

So far my impressions of the M5 go like this.

Positives - driving feel and handling, excellent steering at all speeds, plenty of gadgets (Australian cars are fully loaded), sweet drivetrain, smooth for an SMG (compared to Lambo's e-gear), good power in the midrange in the full power mode, HUD is novel, ride is surprisingly smooth (much better than my C32 which had 18" wheels), parking radar is better than parktronic, sound system is better than HK is E55, car feels involving to drive, dynamic seats and most of all, thrilling to drive on a winding country road when is all comes together.

Negatives - the looks (I reckon it is ugly and my wife was/is astonished I would buy something so plain), default gearbox setting in auto mode is useless, need to set the car up (too many choices for the gearbox), default mode with 400 hp seems stupid to me, I-drive is slow and dumb compared to Comand, voice controls not as good as MB's Linguatronic, cramped claustrophobic cabin, can't just get in and go like a full auto, feels like you are sitting too high compared to E55, engine sounds too quiet and weedy at low, medium revs, seats are giving me a back ache (need more time to set them up for me), small fuel tank means limited range.

Basically, when the M5 is good it is very good but it's got a narrower focus than its competitors . On a winding country road, the Benz can't match it for fun. But the Benz has wider range of abilities. It is better around town with its superior torque and the auto box will always beat a manual or SMG away from the lights.

Life is about trying new things, so I don't regret my choice, but it will be interesting to see if I come to love the M5 as much as the total Bimmer enthusiasts seem to.

IanSL55

I was going to say - the UGLINESS FACTOR keeps me away from even considering it... The only good angle looking at the 5 series is 180' - that is with your back to the car itself.

~ Ian

Vetluver

Please let me know if you ever solve this one. I have driven the 5 and 7 series thru 2 iterations each and have yet to be able to avoid the low back ache after a short time. My dealer is perplexed too. I just avoid the M3 for more than short trips to the store.

reggid

so the 320 will make more power than the 330

please post your source or proof of this!

vixapphire

you mean to tell me that the "16-way power seats" of the current 5-series -- seats which seem able to contort in any imaginable way, including bending halfway up the back -- are not capable of undertaking a comfortable seating position???

hey folks, regardless of power, glory, looks and the rest of it, you gotta sit in these vehicles in order to enjoy them. if bmw has so collossally failed in that bit of ergonomics (something i find difficult to believe, since for all its angularity, the 5-series interior really puts everything in the right place (armrests, etc.)), that would make the decision an easy one, don't you think?

skratch77

mpower built the engine and im not sure if they will use it in the reg 320.I think they will put in in the m1 or m2 if it ever comes out.

Frankfurt (GER), 12th September 2005. BMW defines the direction for the future - this time in touring cars. From 12th September, the Munich automobile manufacturer presents the motorsport version of the new BMW 3 Series at the 61st International Motor Show (IAA) in Frankfurt. From 2006, the car will be competing in the FIA World Touring Car Championship (WTCC) and in many other racing series around the world.

The 275 bhp racing car was developed by BMW Motorsport. It is the racing version of the special model BMW 320si, which will be on offer from BMW dealers as a limited edition from December 2005. Like its production counterpart, the motorsport version of the BMW 320si will be driven by a powerful 2-litre four-cylinder in-line engine. The car complies with the Super 2000 regulations and is 45mm longer and 36mm wider than its predecessor.

With this car BMW will continue the tradition of customer sports in 2006. Apart from the World Touring Car Championship, in which BMW competes with national teams, the successful racing version of the BMW 320i is also racing in Championships in Denmark, Italy, Russia, Sweden and Asia. Until now, more than 100 racing sports kits of the E46 series have been sold to motorsport teams by the BMW racing parts distributors.

BMW Motorsport Director Mario Theissen says, "Touring cars without BMW is unthinkable - and BMW is equally unthinkable without touring cars. This is what made the brand grow, and we will stick to this tradition. Apart from works support we have always been keen to keep racing affordable for our customers and at the same time offer a high-performance package. This tradition is now continued by the racing version of the new BMW 3 Series. I am sure that this model will write further chapters of BMW's successful history."

In the World Touring Car Championship, the BMW 320i is currently in its last season. Six races prior to the season finale, Dirk Müller (GER) of BMW Team Deutschland leads the drivers' table, closely followed by his brand-mate Andy Priaulx (GBR) who competes for the BMW Team UK. The Manufacturers' Championship is also lead by BMW, which looks likely to bring the title home to Munich yet again.

Touring car racing is BMW's most successful discipline. The brand can boast an impressive list of successes: 20 European Championship wins with FIA sanction and winner of the first and only World Championship in 1987. Over the past couple of years, BMW came first in the manufacturers' competition of the FIA ETCC. In 2004, Priaulx won the drivers' title in the European Championship.

Technical specifications BMW 320si
Motorsport version for the 2006 FIA World Touring Car Championship.

Length: 4,535 mm
Width: 1,845 mm
Height: approx. 1,350 mm
Wheel base: 2,763 mm
Vehicle weight: 1,140 kg (with driver)
Engine type: four-cylinder in-line
Capacity: 1,998 cc
max. output: approx. 275 bhp at approx. 8,400 rpm
max. engine speed: 8,500 rpm (as per regulations)
Cylinder block: aluminium crankcase reinforced with a bedplate
Engine control: BMW Motorsport ECU404
Tank capacity: approx. 45 litres
Fuel: standard fuel, Super Plus unleaded
Chassis/body: unitary construction steel body
Aerodynamic front apron, rear apron, flared front and rear
package: wheel arches made of CRFP/GFRP, rear wings made of aluminium
Front axle: double joint Mc Pherson axle with adjustable anti roll bar
Rear axle: five arms axle with adjustable anti roll bar
Shock absorbers: Sachs with adjustable compression and rebound
Brake system, front: four-piston AP brake callipers, iron brake discs of 332 mm diameter
Brake system, rear: two-piston AP brake callipers, iron brake discs of 280 mm diameter
Wheels: aluminium rims, SA 216 BBS
Seat: Recaro ProRacer HANS

reggid

in other words its a racing engine and not for the 320 touring so why say the following.



so what the hell does it have to do with anything then?

skratch77

reg if you go back up and read wut the hell I wrote you can see why I brought it up.I said it will probably be the next engine that will have problems from not blowing up.

oh and yes you can buy this car at a dealership.im so sorry that i got the touring mixed up.I read about this car a while ago.It will be used for touring races and its a 320si

that engine will be used in future bmw m cars like the m1 or m2 and it runs on pump gas again get off my nuts about this engine I have proven its real

and now you ***** about getting the name of the car wrong

you do know that the last evo e30 m3 made 240hp out of a inline 4 right

that was like 15 years ago and you think bmw cant make 275hp now

Improviz

Well, as you have observed previously, a data sample of one is worthless.

However, Consumer Reports has thousands of data points. And while BMW did score a bit higher in quality, the difference is far, far smaller than your endless Mercedes-bashing posts would indicate; see attached, which is their 2004 by-brand data. BMW was 30th out of 36th, while Mercedes was 34th--meaning that neither brand has what would be considered Lexus-like reliability...

So, to put it bluntly: if your highest priority is reliability, then I would suggest you get an LS430.

vraa

BMW and Mercedes considered reliable?!
Whoa what has the world come to!

Improviz

Lol, yeah...shoot, our BMW has been in the shop far more than my CLK. *All* of the four windows have had broken regulators, one of them twice; the sunroof has come off-track three times now, one week after we got it, the check engine and brake fail lights came on at the same time and would not go out, yadda ya...meanwhile, our Lexus has 62,000 miles on it with nary a hiccup, rattle, or squeak.

But it's about as fun to drive as a bus.

vraa

My X5 will sometimes tell me my air suspension is inactive.
What's even cooler is that I never ordered any air suspension except in the rear.

I almost fell asleep driving momma's LS430. As fun as it is to rev that 3UZ, it's so boring without spirited driving.

Every car has it's pros and cons. :p

W210

Yes, it was more or less an easy solution for me, no 5. My problem lies in my right knee rubbing painfully against the steering column, if I have dialed in the needed thigh support.

I think BMW had gone overboard with the funny way the steering column adjusts - not only reach but the angle by itself. Very annoying to find the best driving position.

The 7 is much better, but I'm not a fan of the silly location and multi-step seat adjustment.

Yet, I pick the 7 over the 5 for the proven 4.8l V8 over the V10.

reggid

It won't be used in the M1/2 since there will be a 130i and why would they use a smaller engine! rumours are 300+hp but thats another story.

btw it was 238hp to be correct and yes they can make 275hp but not from a NA 2.0L for use in a production car (which you implied accidently or otherwise) which was the reason for my comments.

krispykrme

Let me quickly point out your own mistake as well.

Data sample of one is not good. However, one report does not mean anything either.

Last time I checked, on the 3 year dependability survey on the BMW for 2005 from JD power was much better than industry average as well as much better than Mercedes. BMW ranked 11th.

So does one report = everything? No it does not.

BTW, since you are so good at looking up the report, you can do the same for JD power associate.

Like you said, one data point is useless, I can give you the same response that one report is useless because there are report else where shows a different result.

Amen.

In addition, my data point is not one sample data points as you pointed out.

I have 4 MB and 3 BMW. That makes 7 data points.

The fact of matter is that. Out of 7 data samples, my MB has way more problem than my 3 BMW combined. In fact, problems with either E55 and CLK320 already more than my 3 BMW combined.

I think my data point is probably more accurate then what you claim to be since my data point are one different vehicles in different category.

You can't dismiss the fact that my E55 spend nearly 2 weeks in the shop with defective airmatic, nor you can discount all the recalls on W211. You can't explain why my wife's CLK320 would need new transmission in about 10k miles. Nor you can explain how the tail light would fall off while driving. The CLK has already gone through one new top already because it was mis-aligned from the factory. My wife's CLK sounds like it is about to fall apart (in fact it already has tail lights falling off). I have never owned a car that would have tailight disassemble itself from the rest of the car.

My perception based on my experience is simple, MB quality does blows. Their service department on the other hand is excellent.

My BMW are not lexus bullet proof. But so far with my experience on all three BMW thus far, it has been far more reliable and durable than all my MB. Although i will still say this, BMW service blows.

zoink

If I may chime in, Euro cars (not only MBs & BMWs but also porsches, lambos, jags, ferraris, etc.) don't have consistent quality, unlike Japanese cars (hondas, lexus, toyotas, etc.).

Here's why (from my own experience + other people's experience):

- My '01 E55 so far has never had any big problems (only bad LCD, bad A/C display and driver's headrest). If you see from this forum, you could see that quite a lot of W210 E55's have MAF issues. Not mine.

- My '03 E55 gave me a problem from day one (probably because it was a lemon)... 50% out of 3-month ownership was in the shop.... some '03 E55 owners in this forum don't even have any problems - not a single one. At least if they indeed do, they did not post (which I think is unlikely).

- My '02 540i didn't rattle, no problems at all.... some people that I know had a lot of issues w/ 540i. Starting from broken electric seat & bad LCDs.... to check engine light to locking the owner up in the car (crazy.... the owner even had to break the window... o/w he would've been dead).

- Cayenne... mine is as good as it gets..... but if you go to cayenne's forum.... lots of folks over there complaining about foggy headlights, leaked tail lights, steering wheel wobbles, etc.

- Gallardo... Top Gear couple weeks ago.... they said if nothing breaks it's not a lambo.... they showed '05 (or '04) Gallardo w/ 5xxx miles.... ashtray is broken, gear knob is all worn out.... when I asked my friend about his gallardo.... he said he put 7xxx miles for 1+ years and no, ashtray is not broken (yet?), gear knob is good and nothing wrong at all w/ the car.

- My '96 Maxima.... no problems at all.... friends' and friends' friends' 4th gen Maxima also do not have any problems at all. But.... to show how consistent Japanese cars' quality..... when one part of our Maxima breaks.... other Maxima's will likely follow also... and some time they became a recall....

May be you just have to be lucky w/ euro cars.... I think I'm lucky except w/ my '03 E55.

absent

In my '03 E55 a fuel pump exploded at idle (traffic lights),destroying the engine.(at 600 miles,engine replaced with car 1 month in the shop)
'04 S600 with everything from Renntech,Kleemann and Brabus,totally trouble free,faultless 23k miles of very hard and abusive driving.