Rock

Don't kid yourself, if you sold the 55 instead of the M5 we'd be calling you slime to.

MBH

Ehh they should've never bought that slow ugly beast :p

AMGcrazy

What strikes me as most interesting in all of these M5 vs. E55 threads is that the reality is never as exaggerated as the hype. All of the early marketing on the M5 from printed sources as well as the hired trolls on this board was about how the M5 would be "king" and defeat the E in every situation. Then we start to hear about multiple tranny problems in Europe. Then the marketing videos all start showing up with the E's loosing both marginally and horribly...ALL from a roll. The higher the roll the worse the beating. Now we have the curious absence from all "marketing" sources of bona fide quarter mile times and NO videos of a dead stop drag a/la Cobra vs. E55. No secret why...M5 would lose. Having previously owned a BMW I know they are driver's cars, so I would never debate the M5's handling prowise. However it appears the "king" has a bit of a tarnished crown. I like many others on this forum am eager to see what the 63 will do. If our 4 year old technology still can hold it's own in at least one category key to all of our enjoyment - 1/4 mile, the folks at AMG certainly will make improvements in the next gen. It seems in pure straight line performance, they won't have to do much!

Sorry all you BMW guys, but this M5 is certainly not living up to the hype and it may have more serious competition in all aspects when AMG responds.

xraymd

We still need to hear some times from some M5's that have been broken in and loosened up. But remember all those debates (how could we forget) about the superior gearing of the SMG taking advantage of the high HP and how torque wasn't as important? I guess that's what I find amusing. I think we'll all agree it sounds like the M5 shines in the handling department. What's funny is those who argued how torque didn't matter as much now seem absent. Those that do show (Gustav) now argue the 1/4 mile isn't important and the M5 was never supposed to be faster than the E from a standstill to 60.

VelocitE55

Derek, enjoy the Noble! Very sick car, be sure to give the M5's a hard time in it!

It is strange that we see so little in terms of acceleration numbers from the new M5. It seems to be a high Trap Speed car more than an Elapsed Time car. Not to say high 12's isnt good. I guess we will have to see what it will do with LC to see the top of its capabilities. No doubt the 63 cars with the 7G will very likely make mincemeat out of the M5.

krispykrme

I will disagree with you on that.

M5 is a far more advance car than E55. E55 has low end punch that M5 will never match, but that power is achieved with addition of S/C, which is not so advanced and quiet east thing to do. Heck, I can buy a civic and turbo it and it will eat E55 in straight or buy a C06 and mod it.

However to make a 4 door car as heavy as M5 to handle well on track is far more difficult to do.

Simply put the philosophy between the two car are vastly different. And to be honest due to M5's output it is now impossible to open it up on the street as anyone doing that will probably lose their license.

To me M5 has more than lived up to its hype, since i really did not care about all out straight line performance.

Even with 6.3 around the corner, i would still not buy another AMG E again. I simply don't need to buy a $100k car to only to drag race it, when I can spend much less than that.

E55 is a good street car. m5 is a good track car. But since derek has a noble to beat around on the track, it makes no sense for him to keep the M5. I would have dump the E55 long ago, but only kept it because the resale on it is horrible and makes no sense what so ever to dump it. Derek can get good $$ for his M5, and i think he made a good decision.

However, I still will take M5 over E55 simply it can do more thing than E55.

vraa

Haha, dude, that is one 'poor' interior. Totally looks like it's from the 70's. And I thought that was hot.
No but really, that interior leaves a lot to be desired in a one hundred plus thousand dollar car.

krispykrme

That is subjective. I like this cold look (personal preference). Plus everything is much easier for me to reach. And BMW navi/i-drive/voice command trumps the command by light years.

Also, you will probably hate the new S dash, since it is a direct copy of the 7 and ultra cold and business like too.

vraa

It is subjective, you are absolutley right. It's just previously, I had said that the M5 dash looked beautiful (maybe not those exact terms) but I did say I liked it. I think perhaps, the lighter color interior turned me off. What is your interior color? My X5 is triple black. Black exterior, black interior, anthracite wood. I wish I had a black carbon fiber interior trim.

I love the BMW MKIV navigation. The 7-Series I didn't like because it jumped through too many holes to get one thing done. I have only had a brief stint with the iDrive in a 545i. Is the M5 iDrive any different? It was a lot better than the 7-Series IMO.

Comand just sucks the ****. :p

I'm not a fond Mercedes interior lover. It's got a lot of 'crap' which I think is redundent. A little too on the 'looks' and too less on (what I prefer) minimalistic. I think a black on black interior on and M5 would be a lot better to my eyes.

KK: Can you e-mail me some high res pictures of your M5 if you have any?

krispykrme

My interior is silverstone (i.e. the same as your picture). And I hated it (color wise- too hard to keep it clean, it simply a dirt magnet). I made a mistake in ordering the interior (will be corrected next year with my manual order- going black this time around).

I do have some high resolution picture i will upload when i have the time. What do you want to see? I can ask my wife to take some picture since I am not around right now. BTW, i really should take a picture of the BMW navi, with split screen and perspective views. This system is actually very good and in fact better than Japanese setup (simply due to bigger screen).

M5's idrive is identical to 545i save some M-specific menus (such as M-drive setting). Otherwise it is same. I still don't understand the complaints about I-drive. May be i am just so adapted using it. who knows?

peace!

vraa

Whatever pictures you have, I just need something to replace my desktop. Right now I have the M5 stainless headers from the press release.

It is the same? Then I'll have to play with the 5's a bit more, I didn't mess around with it that must.

TopGun32

Even with 6.3 around the corner, i would still not buy another AMG E again. I simply don't need to buy a $100k car to only to drag race it, when I can spend much less than that.



From i understand the E90 M5 starts around 81k and the E55 starts at 82k...

with the price mark ups on the M5, i doubt you can get this car out the door with tax and lic for 95k.... with basic options

E55 is about the same 95k... (premium, lighting pkg)

"spending much less"?

congrats on the M5.... it's the Ultimate Driving Machine.

oggle

The M5 interior is nasty looking. Very stingy.

Vetluver

Then why does BMW include a "launch control"?

Is it for taking off from stop lights?

I don't think so.......

vraa

It's to lessen the rape of an E55...
Kinda like using lube.

E55_POWER

Having owned the M5 for about 5 days now, there are numerous hideous things on the car.

It doesn't remember your last settings, ie I drive in S5 daily and when I shut off the car and turn it back on it puts me in S3. The SMG I do like a lot but in Auto mode, it's pretty hideous.

Interior does not look nor feel like a $96K car, frankly the I-Drive is Lame. The I-Drive on my M5 is MUCH worse than my 750's and Navi sucks on both cars simple as that. You need to like 5 steps to simply add a stupid address, sorry KK, Japanese Navs make our Nav look like Atari vs PS2. Scrolling through the map to get to a destination is VERY slow. I can't find the M-Drive part of the menu, unless it's hidden until the 1200 mile service.

Low end power, we've gone over it a bunch of times so I won't beat it to death. Gas mileage is just plain horrible ( I didn't buy this car to conserve gas so I'm not really complaining about this, but 9.6 MPG on P400 mode is just ridiculous) since last Friday I've filled up 3 times already and I'm down to 3/4 tank right now on a 430 mile car....but the car is A LOT of fun to drive. Steering is a bit sensitive, maybe I got use to MB's bad handling or that's the way it's suppose to be, but who knows. I know for sure that my M5 won't beat no 911TT for sure. I've spent 1/2 a day with a 996TT X50 (courtesy of my buddy) and although the car is FAST, after 20 minutes my back was killing me. I don't know how some of the P-Car owners can drive it from DC to NY. Great 2nd/weekend car for sure, but daily drive - NO.

I'm currently debating on getting a X5 4.8 to drive daily and keep the M5 as a weekend/track car, or just sell the M5 and get a CLS55 with 030 Package. Do I hate the M5, absolutely not! I like the car, just don't love it. I guess I got caught up in all the hype as well as I had high expectations but only to be let down a bit. To be fair to the M5, same thing was said for me abou the E55 (let down by the horrible handling, but truly enjoyed the power).

Anyone have a SL65 for sale under $140K?

krispykrme

1. My M5 sticker at $93k. With wonderful tax in CA, my car costed over $100k. ( I got mine at sticker, and with abundance of car now, there is no reason that you should not get it at MSRP).

2. My E55 (can't remember) was sticker higher close to $95k. So with tax at CA, it cost over 100k.

Both car with all tax and fees are above $100k.

For $100k, you can create a straight line monster with ease (may not be luxurious, but it would be fun to run at straight- BTW, i started with cars like civic long long time ago).

E55_POWER

KK, off topic here but how do you like the 2004 Sienna XLE Limited upgrade Solara navi?

We were looking at a 3rd vehicle and the Sienna was one of the cars in our list. My wife REALLY likes the RR Sport S/Ced as she said she won't give up the 750.

MB Fanatic

Get the Odyssey over the Sienna. More power, same gas mileage, better Navi than Toyota, storage is plentiful, looks (subjective), features, and better price point IMO. Did i mention it handles pretty damn well?

My wife wont give up the 750li either. I guess our wives have something in common haha.

E55_POWER

I really like the Odyssey but we were leaning towards the Sienna for its AWD. We looked at the R Class...man who are they kidding with that $70K Pacifica with MB logos (no offense to R Class owners, I'm sure it's a fine vehicle). But the R Class, man I don't know, it felt to me like buying a Casio Neiman Marcus Edition a NM...change the skin and sell it a NM for higher price because they can. I just didn't see any $70K value in the R Class. Sales guy was going on and on about what an awesome minivan it was, etc. I didn't even listen and just walked away.

krispykrme

This is annoying to a degree.

.

This i totally disagree.

To input address into toyota system. You press det, address, then enter house number, street, and then okay.

To input address into BMW, you move the i-drive knob to the right to access the navi menu, then move the knob down, then you input the city, street, address. You are done.

In other word, both toyota/BMW system will require two movement to access the address input menu. And same number of step to begin guidance.

I really failed to see how I-drive is more difficult.

Let's talk about memory vs address book.

For toyota system, you have to mark the point 1st. Press menu, my places, edit, select the marked point you want in the quick acess button, click on attribute, then make the necessary change. Even with this, you only have 5 quick access button plus one for home. With toyota system you have to either be physically at location that you want in your address book, or scroll through the map.

For I-drive system. From the main menu, move the knob to the right to select navigation. Select navigation, move the knob up and scroll to address book, select it and you can now input the address into the address book and change the attribute. This can be done at any time and anywhere.

As far as graphic goes, toyota/lexus/honda system graphic is slightly better (better looking). But the screen is too small. If you split the screen on the japanese system to show both map and turn direction, the map is pretty much useless since it is too small. On the BMW system, you can use the help screen to call out the turn direction (as well as have it displayed on the HUD). Therefore, you retain the same size of screen for the map. Thus BMW setup is far more useful. Not to mention that the help screen can also be used to show OBC, and other function as well. (you can have two maps with different heading type).

HUD navigation instruction is not available in US for japanese systems nor is the instruction embedded in the instrument panel like W211. Hence you need to take your eye off the road.

Also to zoom in and out, with i-drive you simply turn the knob left and right. With lexus you need two button on the screen (at opposite end of the screen).

M-drive setting is through the main menu. In the main menu there is an I icon. So in the main menu, you don't move the knob to the four menu, you simply press the knob, you can acess the i menu. In there there is vehicle setting, select it, and M-drive menu should be there.

BTW, did you the manual? Actually I-drive is so intuitive to use. (i did not read the manual, and all of the menu was quiet easily accessbile and remember). Heck I only spend about 10 minutes during a rest stop at oregon and i was able to access pretty much everything and including figuring out bluetooth pairing. This is not that difficult.

May be i am so used to use of menu. This is like 2nd nature to me.

Gas mileage will probably improve after break in. So far my 1st tank post break in is about 15 mpg in P400 mode.

Much better than 5-6 i was getting during break in. That was bad.

enzom

Well, there is certainly less input on these boards from the BMW zealots lately. I am not referring to those that contribute and share in our discussions, but those that spew magazine times and tell everyone that Gustav's videos prove everything. As I said dozens of times (after being chastized by Gustav's pals for being pig-headed) - when the cars get into their owners' hands on this side of the globe, we will see what they can do. Now it looks like the M5 can't challenge an E from a standing start until it hits well over 120 mph. It also looks like the M5 CAN'T beat a Gallardo and 911 Turbo in a fair race. I guess if I were jumping up and down on someone else's board telling them what idiots they were for not completely agreeing that the M5 will lay waste to the automotive world, I'd be pretty quiet right about now, too.

By the way, no disrespect to the car intended. The M5 is a great car. It just can't beat the E55 in a standing start 1/4 race. As Derek (I believe said) - the M5's horsepower advantage is not great enough to make up for its torque disadvantage. We can start the debate again about whether hp or torque is more important in a 1/4 mile race, but time slips are far more important.

krispykrme

I really like my sienna. I will take it over Odyssey any time. (i seriously considered trading the sienna for odyssey when it 1st came out, because the 04 sienna had old toyota navi, and since has been dramtically improved since 05 model. hence my upgrade).

Sienna does not handle well and steering is numb. Odyssey has better steering response but handling is about as poor due to its excessive weight (4500lb vs 4000 lb). Honda gave odyssey the best steering reponse save the NSX and S2000. Odyssey has better brake than sienna, and this is a big advantage.

Sienna's interior is bigger and better designed than odyssey (especially the 3rd row, where sienna is about 3" wider- I can fit 3 across in the 3rd row in the sienna much better than odyssey). All the buttons are placed better than Odyssey. For example, the power door on the sienna can be opreated by both driver and passenger while the Odyssye can only be opreated by the driver since the buttons are on the left hand side. Also there are extra buttons on the b-pillar of sienna in which you can operate the power door (missing in odyssey).

As far as navi goes, since 2005, sienna's navi is more powerful and quiet easy to use. Both sienna navi and odyssey navi will allow input while moving (no mod on the sienna, and can be done with punching in of selection of buttons). Sienna's navi will also allows DVD to be playing on the screen while moving (there is a software bypass- not recommend while driving). Sienna now comes with bluetooth build in, not on the odyssey.

If you are going to spend $40k for a minivan, go with sienna limited. It comes with HID with manual height adjustment (again missing on the odyssey). Go take a test drive into a rural road area where there is no ambient light. Play around with sienna's HID height adjustment control. It allows you to see about 3x further than odyssey's head light. This is one of my biggest gripe about odyssey.

As far as price point goes, I don't think that is really the case either. You are probably looking at Sienna limited AWD, even though the sticker is north of $40k, you can get it far less than that, probably at below invoice for 05, and invoice for 06 (with bigger DVD screen, bluetooth). In fact you probably will get a loaded sienna limited AWD for less than a loaded odyssey touring. You get way more feature in sienna than odyssey at higher trim model with better pricing to boot.

You need to drive the two. Sienna feels numb while odyssey feels more agile (feel not actual performance). But sienna rides much better than Odyssey and is quieter too. I am very clear as to what i was looking in a van. I never expect it to be a good handling car. So my priority were on safety, comfort, and reliability. I was coming off a disaster TL with major transmission and brake issues. So i have no confidence with honda product right now.

If you can't tolerate numb steering (worse than the E), than sienna is not a good choice for you. But i am not so sure about odyssey's steering either. Odyssey steering response is BMW like (almost like a clone). So if you don't like BMW steering you might have issue with odyssey's steering too.

Personally sienna is a much better conceived minivan for the pax you are carrying, and offers more safety feature and not really fun to drive. But for people you are carrying, sienna is great for long trips. Not to mention that toyota rarely breaks down.

Anyway, go take test drive between the two. See if lack of HID on odyssey bothers you. (it bothered me a great deal as I often have to drive on 152 east on my way to LA. 152 east is twisty, windy, full with hills, lots of slow moving semi, and no streetlight. HID is a great safety feature for me).

E55_POWER

No Manual yet from retarded dealership. They also ripped out the break in instruction sticker at the top of the winshield so I truly don't have any break in instructions at the moment.

The M-Drive Menu is not there so it must be hidden til 1200 I'm guessing. I will play with the Navi a bit more. The 750 I-Drive truly is more intuitive than the M5s. I like the 7 a lot.

krispykrme

same here. I didn't get the manual until my 1200 miles break in.

I will take pictures for you tomorrow when the lighting is better on the break in instruction, the m-drive menu. (it should not be missing- this is how i called out S6 prior to the break in).