*** Supercharger Shut-off Survey ***
03-18-2006, 06:09 PM
#51
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07 S65
Originally Posted by WayneE
Derrick can attest that my car doesn't exhibit any problems, he was amazed at how cool it stays when hammering it. 
I would run it at the strip 3-4 times, just hotlapping, and would not experience any heat related issues.
My car is stock with about 8900 miles on it.
I would run it at the strip 3-4 times, just hotlapping, and would not experience any heat related issues.My car is stock with about 8900 miles on it.
03-18-2006, 06:20 PM
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Drove a new 06 today in 86 degree south florida heat, once the car was up to operating temps I did some WOT runs, the car never got close to the mid temp point always 2 bars below; it even stayed below in city traffic. The car ran cooler than my stock 500; I think the late production 06's may already have the lower fan temp built in especially the one slated for the south or hot climates. I was only able to use WOT 3 times however.
The steering wheel had a moderate vibration during speeds above 60 mph (Conti's should not be on this car) in addition, the car also had a very nasty brake shudder. Car only had 15 miles on it so I did not want to push it harder (note salesman could have cared less if I did).
The steering wheel had a moderate vibration during speeds above 60 mph (Conti's should not be on this car) in addition, the car also had a very nasty brake shudder. Car only had 15 miles on it so I did not want to push it harder (note salesman could have cared less if I did).
Last edited by RJC; 03-18-2006 at 09:26 PM.
03-18-2006, 09:00 PM
#53
Victor,
I am sorry to hear of this again. I though it was taken care of with all the heat wrapping and Evo cooling upgrade. As you know I had the same thing happen to me and when the supercharger would not engage it would take at least 10 seconds to go from 0-60mph. I was on the verge of selling the car.
I took it into 2 shops -- RPM Racing Inc in Long Island where I did the majority of the work and then Curry's in VA and no dice. Then I finally took it into Mercedes Benz and they found a spliced hose in the Evo cooling kit. Its been fine since last August (fingers crossed).
I am sorry to hear of this again. I though it was taken care of with all the heat wrapping and Evo cooling upgrade. As you know I had the same thing happen to me and when the supercharger would not engage it would take at least 10 seconds to go from 0-60mph. I was on the verge of selling the car.
I took it into 2 shops -- RPM Racing Inc in Long Island where I did the majority of the work and then Curry's in VA and no dice. Then I finally took it into Mercedes Benz and they found a spliced hose in the Evo cooling kit. Its been fine since last August (fingers crossed).
03-19-2006, 12:36 AM
#55
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2003 E55 AMG
This is interesting to hear.. Vadim @ Evosport told me the same thing but I never got the procedure on how to bleed air out.. Maybe there is air trapped in the system from when I swapped out the pump myself?? I guess I need to speak to an MB tech and find out the procedure for this. Thanks for the info.
Hey Isaac,
It's really annoying but I am not giving up on it.. This car will be 100% solid when I am done with it. There is a short list of what the possible issues are.. I just need to go through them one at a time and see which is the culprit.
My problem cant be related to a spliced hose because my fluid level in the overflow tank remains constant with over 3 weeks of driving.
Hearing from everyone and getting a sampling of who has the problems shoots holes in my theory.. It seems there is a mix of different people (stock, Kleemann modified, Evo modified) so there doesnt seem to be a clear pattern.
One thing for sure is that something is very off... All the datalogging I've done shows IAT STARTING at +30 over ambient.. It was +2 when I did the last datalog and I had IAT at 35C.. Each successive WOT run brought IAT up, 47C, 58C, 72C, 93C, then kompressor shutdown after the 93C entry.
Originally Posted by RJC
I was told by an MB dealer Shop Foreman that the system must be bled of all air, as the slightest air in the system can be causing power delivery issues. MB has a special procedure and equipment to do this right. He recommended not to open the system unless you have 1) the proceedure to do it properly and 2) the tools to bleed all the air out of the system.
Hey Isaac,
It's really annoying but I am not giving up on it.. This car will be 100% solid when I am done with it. There is a short list of what the possible issues are.. I just need to go through them one at a time and see which is the culprit.
My problem cant be related to a spliced hose because my fluid level in the overflow tank remains constant with over 3 weeks of driving.
Hearing from everyone and getting a sampling of who has the problems shoots holes in my theory.. It seems there is a mix of different people (stock, Kleemann modified, Evo modified) so there doesnt seem to be a clear pattern.
One thing for sure is that something is very off... All the datalogging I've done shows IAT STARTING at +30 over ambient.. It was +2 when I did the last datalog and I had IAT at 35C.. Each successive WOT run brought IAT up, 47C, 58C, 72C, 93C, then kompressor shutdown after the 93C entry.
Victor,
I am sorry to hear of this again. I though it was taken care of with all the heat wrapping and Evo cooling upgrade. As you know I had the same thing happen to me and when the supercharger would not engage it would take at least 10 seconds to go from 0-60mph. I was on the verge of selling the car.
I took it into 2 shops -- RPM Racing Inc in Long Island where I did the majority of the work and then Curry's in VA and no dice. Then I finally took it into Mercedes Benz and they found a spliced hose in the Evo cooling kit. Its been fine since last August (fingers crossed).
I am sorry to hear of this again. I though it was taken care of with all the heat wrapping and Evo cooling upgrade. As you know I had the same thing happen to me and when the supercharger would not engage it would take at least 10 seconds to go from 0-60mph. I was on the verge of selling the car.
I took it into 2 shops -- RPM Racing Inc in Long Island where I did the majority of the work and then Curry's in VA and no dice. Then I finally took it into Mercedes Benz and they found a spliced hose in the Evo cooling kit. Its been fine since last August (fingers crossed).
03-19-2006, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by vrus
One thing for sure is that something is very off... All the datalogging I've done shows IAT STARTING at +30 over ambient.. It was +2 when I did the last datalog and I had IAT at 35C.. Each successive WOT run brought IAT up, 47C, 58C, 72C, 93C, then kompressor shutdown after the 93C entry.
It's not very likely that the Evans coolant is the issue - any fluid pumped through the IC line should give a better result
Air trapped in the line would probably cause some kind of cooling problem - not sure if it would be this bad. It would certainly explain why some cars are affected and others not.
Other considerations:
- is the pump working properly? pressure? volume?
- is the pump cavitating?
- is the coolant passing through the heat exchanger too fast to effectively transfer heat?
- is there blockage in the system that is restricting flow?
03-19-2006, 12:54 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by vrus
This is interesting to hear.. Vadim @ Evosport told me the same thing but I never got the procedure on how to bleed air out.. Maybe there is air trapped in the system from when I swapped out the pump myself?? I guess I need to speak to an MB tech and find out the procedure for this. Thanks for the info.
As I mentioned in another post, the brand new late production 06 I just drove ran at very low temps; 2 bars below center mark even in 86 dgr heat; I'd have your ECU flashed so the cooling fans come on quicker and stay on longer as it appears the later production cars do.
03-20-2006, 04:29 PM
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2003 E55 AMG
You have very good questions.. I wish I had answers... I am going to drain the system, refill and see if I can test to see if air bubbles were the cause. The pump is circulating fluid as far as I know. This pump I have is much quieter than the original that failed on me.. Not sure if that means it isn't pushing the fluid as quickly or not...
Once I drain & refill if that doesnt fix it, I'll try disabling it altogether and see if there is any difference. I am going to check the IAT sensor and make sure it isnt messed up also..
Thanks for your input.
What is the service data link? I use Autotap and it is able to read and erase any stored codes.. Is that what you are referring to?
Dont confuse ENGINE TEMP for INTERCOOLER COOLANT TEMP. My engine temp is rock solid at 83C - 86C. Doesnt move at all.. I only have an issue with intercooler fluid & IAT temp.
I already have the cooling fan coming on sooner.. I found that setting and shared it with the rest of the guys here.. Mine turns on 10C sooner and is much louder so it is spinning faster.. That's why my car holds steady at 86C.. It used to run at 100C before that mod.
Once I drain & refill if that doesnt fix it, I'll try disabling it altogether and see if there is any difference. I am going to check the IAT sensor and make sure it isnt messed up also..
Thanks for your input.
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
Your incremental temperatures almost look like a geometric progression, which is not a good thing. Your IC system ain't working. Can you repeat the test with the IC pump disabled? This would give you a comparison of how ineffectual your system actually is.
It's not very likely that the Evans coolant is the issue - any fluid pumped through the IC line should give a better result
Air trapped in the line would probably cause some kind of cooling problem - not sure if it would be this bad. It would certainly explain why some cars are affected and others not.
Other considerations:
- is the pump working properly? pressure? volume?
- is the pump cavitating?
- is the coolant passing through the heat exchanger too fast to effectively transfer heat?
- is there blockage in the system that is restricting flow?
It's not very likely that the Evans coolant is the issue - any fluid pumped through the IC line should give a better result
Air trapped in the line would probably cause some kind of cooling problem - not sure if it would be this bad. It would certainly explain why some cars are affected and others not.
Other considerations:
- is the pump working properly? pressure? volume?
- is the pump cavitating?
- is the coolant passing through the heat exchanger too fast to effectively transfer heat?
- is there blockage in the system that is restricting flow?
Dont confuse ENGINE TEMP for INTERCOOLER COOLANT TEMP. My engine temp is rock solid at 83C - 86C. Doesnt move at all.. I only have an issue with intercooler fluid & IAT temp.
I already have the cooling fan coming on sooner.. I found that setting and shared it with the rest of the guys here.. Mine turns on 10C sooner and is much louder so it is spinning faster.. That's why my car holds steady at 86C.. It used to run at 100C before that mod.
Originally Posted by RJC
No sweat...hope it does the trick. Have you considered getting the service data link for your car from MB?
As I mentioned in another post, the brand new late production 06 I just drove ran at very low temps; 2 bars below center mark even in 86 dgr heat; I'd have your ECU flashed so the cooling fans come on quicker and stay on longer as it appears the later production cars do.
As I mentioned in another post, the brand new late production 06 I just drove ran at very low temps; 2 bars below center mark even in 86 dgr heat; I'd have your ECU flashed so the cooling fans come on quicker and stay on longer as it appears the later production cars do.
03-22-2006, 08:12 PM
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2014 Mercedes E63
Originally Posted by Tony007
I have read many posts in the past on this topic but I'm sorry to report that with my K2 & I/C pump upgrade I've never experienced the infamous Kompressor shut down. I also have the -10 degree celsius option done at my dealer. Don't know if that has anything to do with it but it's working like a charm. Whether on the street or on the dyno, things have been consistant.
What is the 10 degree celsius option?
04-04-2006, 05:18 PM
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2003 E55 AMG
Originally Posted by RJC
Any updates re the shut off issue?
04-04-2006, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by vrus
Sorry.. nothing yet... My car is at the beauty parlor getting all beautified.. I should have it back by Friday and will then be able to get back on track with correcting this problem.
05-03-2006, 04:05 PM
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Well to beat a dead horse.
I have my car in for service and mention to the Service rep that my car is shutting down the Super Charger. He does some looking with the tech and low and behold MB has a write up on it. For my car the Intercooler pump was not even working and being replaced. So everyone check those Intercooler pumps!!!!! This seems to be everyones problem. Hopefully I will get to test the car tommorow. Normally it would be 2-3 highway pulls and zap I am driving a C180 diesel
But I still think We need a bigger more effective Intercooler period!!!!!
Does anyone know size of the stock cooler and its capacity? I am going to do some research. A replacement Cooler that is bigger and more effective shouldnt cost more than 1000 bucks easy.
Anyway check those intercooler pumps
I have my car in for service and mention to the Service rep that my car is shutting down the Super Charger. He does some looking with the tech and low and behold MB has a write up on it. For my car the Intercooler pump was not even working and being replaced. So everyone check those Intercooler pumps!!!!! This seems to be everyones problem. Hopefully I will get to test the car tommorow. Normally it would be 2-3 highway pulls and zap I am driving a C180 diesel
But I still think We need a bigger more effective Intercooler period!!!!!
Does anyone know size of the stock cooler and its capacity? I am going to do some research. A replacement Cooler that is bigger and more effective shouldnt cost more than 1000 bucks easy.
Anyway check those intercooler pumps
05-03-2006, 06:15 PM
#66
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vrus ...
Had a weekend test car (july '05) was a stock '05 2000 miles and after two WOT runs in 1st and second , and then onto a free way it shut down. Also weather was warm ...
My new stock '06 has not had this issue yet and yes I have had many more WOT blasts (just over 1000miles now) - although we are just coming out of winter here... so until we are in summer I cannot say if there is a diff or not between the '05 or the '06.
Rgds Steve.
Had a weekend test car (july '05) was a stock '05 2000 miles and after two WOT runs in 1st and second , and then onto a free way it shut down. Also weather was warm ...
My new stock '06 has not had this issue yet and yes I have had many more WOT blasts (just over 1000miles now) - although we are just coming out of winter here... so until we are in summer I cannot say if there is a diff or not between the '05 or the '06.
Rgds Steve.
05-10-2006, 01:38 PM
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Update.
Since having the intercooler pump replaced the car feels like a totally different car. More consistant power all the time. Its pretty amazing.
Anyway check those pumps
BTW my car is a 2004
Since having the intercooler pump replaced the car feels like a totally different car. More consistant power all the time. Its pretty amazing.
Anyway check those pumps
BTW my car is a 2004
05-10-2006, 06:35 PM
#68
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I dont think the stock or the Johnson pump are a good idea... we have also seen johnson pumps fail ...
A few off the wall ideas...
- Has it got to do with revised mappings of some of the modded cars?
- Has it got to do with fuel ? - lower RON fuel will be more prone to knocking as IAT's rise and ECU will know this and pull the S/C sooner - also Euro have 98 RON freely available.
I ONLY put in 98 RON here in UK and no S/C shut down yet....but have not had a chance to open it up a few times in a row in warm/hot weather.
In the end I think its a number of issues...
1 Ambient temps
2 Modded mapping
3 More boost (modded pulley) - obviously
4 Fuel
5 I/C pump failure
6 I/C pump flow volume
7 I/C coolant
8 I/C coolant volume
9 I/C restricted coolant flow (pinched / blocked hoses)
10 Air in I/C coolant circuit
11 High normal operating temp of engine (afftects overall coolant temps). Some run hotter than others.
I think the Evosport mod must help ... their testing proves it - but maybe splitting the circuit is not such a good idea after all, but the additional heat exchanger and bigger pump is. I think we should still look for a better / more reliable pump than the johnson one though. This one makes more sense than a marine pump that has limited operating temp tolerances.... but aint cheap.
http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Mer...Code=ElectPump
Rgds Steve.
A few off the wall ideas...
- Has it got to do with revised mappings of some of the modded cars?
- Has it got to do with fuel ? - lower RON fuel will be more prone to knocking as IAT's rise and ECU will know this and pull the S/C sooner - also Euro have 98 RON freely available.
I ONLY put in 98 RON here in UK and no S/C shut down yet....but have not had a chance to open it up a few times in a row in warm/hot weather.
In the end I think its a number of issues...
1 Ambient temps
2 Modded mapping
3 More boost (modded pulley) - obviously
4 Fuel
5 I/C pump failure
6 I/C pump flow volume
7 I/C coolant
8 I/C coolant volume
9 I/C restricted coolant flow (pinched / blocked hoses)
10 Air in I/C coolant circuit
11 High normal operating temp of engine (afftects overall coolant temps). Some run hotter than others.
I think the Evosport mod must help ... their testing proves it - but maybe splitting the circuit is not such a good idea after all, but the additional heat exchanger and bigger pump is. I think we should still look for a better / more reliable pump than the johnson one though. This one makes more sense than a marine pump that has limited operating temp tolerances.... but aint cheap.
http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Mer...Code=ElectPump
Rgds Steve.
Last edited by stevebez; 05-10-2006 at 06:39 PM.
05-10-2006, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by stevebez
- lower RON fuel will be more prone to knocking as IAT's rise and ECU will know this and pull the S/C sooner
05-10-2006, 09:33 PM
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It would make far more sense to trigger the safety disengagement of the s/c clutch via knock/detonation sensors + IAT than via IAT alone. IAT triggering would not allow for shutoff due to sudden mechanical failures when the engine is not heat-soaked - fuel delivery failure or anything that could lead to a sudden lean-out condition.
05-11-2006, 12:34 AM
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The conditions you described would cause the engine to go into reduced power, limp home mode, not merely disengage the S/C. The car would have just enough functionality to move at a very slow rate - barely above idle. This is the methodology virtually all current engine controllers use for extreme conditions. This thread is addressing heat-related power loss - not catastrophic failures.
05-11-2006, 04:14 AM
#72
MBWorld Fanatic!
Grummpy666 - yep agreed fuel detonation is by timing , but mbe when timing is pulled the S/C shut off temp follows a more conservative tipping point and S/C is pulled earlier ? So when timing is advanced with good fuel its mapping will allow higher IATs and shut the S/C off at higher temps ?
vrus
Been thinking about your problem and to me sounds like you got air in the intercooler - its sits quite high in the engine bay so easy for air to collect and stay there. The pump might be whizzing coolant through the heatexchanger but none of it is getting through the I/C because of the air pocket....
Need to figure out how to bleed this system.
vrus
Been thinking about your problem and to me sounds like you got air in the intercooler - its sits quite high in the engine bay so easy for air to collect and stay there. The pump might be whizzing coolant through the heatexchanger but none of it is getting through the I/C because of the air pocket....
Need to figure out how to bleed this system.
Last edited by stevebez; 05-11-2006 at 04:43 AM.
05-11-2006, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Grumpy666
The conditions you described would cause the engine to go into reduced power, limp home mode, not merely disengage the S/C. The car would have just enough functionality to move at a very slow rate - barely above idle. This is the methodology virtually all current engine controllers use for extreme conditions. This thread is addressing heat-related power loss - not catastrophic failures.
05-11-2006, 10:09 AM
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2001 C320 (Sold), 2006 CLS 55 AMG Capri blue/cashmere beige (April Delivery)
Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
The intercooling system on these AMG cars is wholly inadequate. Even with moderate upgrades the car is not designed for prolonged boost. Running all the engine mods such as pulleys and ecu's only manages to make the situation wore and worse.
I can make my stock E55 or SL55 shut down due to IAT's at will. It just takes some pretty hard driving. If I had pulleys it would take only a few romps on the freeway to shut things down.
In a warm climate like the middle east these cars last but 20 seconds when you try to drive quickly before the kompressor is cut due to high IAT’s. It’s a story you hear time and time again. The system is good enough for more places and people but when you have the car cut out you want to pull your hair out.
Have had a serious issue with this with SMGC32's car we use for road racing. These blower cars do not do well with modded motors and road racing. The extended WOT makes the car shut down and you need to do serious work to make things stay in check. The C32 with a chip and ECU only works for 4-6 laps before the blower shuts down for a lap of IAT cooling. Picture the car cutting the blower right as you are setting the EVO you chased down for the last 6 laps up for a pass on the front straight. Its the most annoying thing possible.
I have done some serious testing and data logging (using Nology OBDII scanning and logging software) in my E SL and in the C32 I use at the track (SMGC32's car) and IAT's make the blower cut like clockwork. 199 degrees and pop cuts the blower until it cools below 155 degrees. DME lets the 2002 C32's go to 255 but 2003 and 2004 cut the blower at 199 degrees. WAY TO HOT.
It is fixable though.
PM me -- I have some thoughts would like to share.
I can make my stock E55 or SL55 shut down due to IAT's at will. It just takes some pretty hard driving. If I had pulleys it would take only a few romps on the freeway to shut things down.
In a warm climate like the middle east these cars last but 20 seconds when you try to drive quickly before the kompressor is cut due to high IAT’s. It’s a story you hear time and time again. The system is good enough for more places and people but when you have the car cut out you want to pull your hair out.
Have had a serious issue with this with SMGC32's car we use for road racing. These blower cars do not do well with modded motors and road racing. The extended WOT makes the car shut down and you need to do serious work to make things stay in check. The C32 with a chip and ECU only works for 4-6 laps before the blower shuts down for a lap of IAT cooling. Picture the car cutting the blower right as you are setting the EVO you chased down for the last 6 laps up for a pass on the front straight. Its the most annoying thing possible.
I have done some serious testing and data logging (using Nology OBDII scanning and logging software) in my E SL and in the C32 I use at the track (SMGC32's car) and IAT's make the blower cut like clockwork. 199 degrees and pop cuts the blower until it cools below 155 degrees. DME lets the 2002 C32's go to 255 but 2003 and 2004 cut the blower at 199 degrees. WAY TO HOT.
It is fixable though.
PM me -- I have some thoughts would like to share.
Guyz you are starting to scaring me here, my 06 CLS 55 is about to arrive from the states sometime next week. I hope you can help me, since I am based in the Middle East, what can I do to avoid such a problem? would an air conditioned garage be of any help? Do I need to change the stock pump to a Johnson pump? or what can I do?
