Will the new 6.3 liter normally aspirated engine make the car faster or slower 0 – 60 and in the ¼ mile than the current 5.4 liter supercharged engine? Have there been any independent tests of a car with the new 6.3L engine to use as a comparison with the old 5.4L engine? Its hard to know for sure which will be faster since torque decreases but horsepower increases when these engines are switched.

 

This has been discussed quite a bit but I think you'll see MB publish 0-60 x's of about 2/10's quicker for the E63 vs. the E55, the 63 should also be faster above 100 mph....I personally still like the idea the 55 has 50 more lb ft of tq

 

That's what I'm reading. I can't see MB producing a slower car though until they drop a turbo on the new power plant I remain unimpressed.

~ Ian

 

It wont be slower, but i think it's going to be like the C55/C32. The C55 was an "upgrade" from the C32, but the perfromance was basically the same with a very slight edge going to the C55. I could be wrong though.

 

No tests have been done yet. The 63's haven't been released and specs are the usual Mercedes conservative numbers. Either way, it won't be slower, but should be slightly quicker. Time will tell once they are released in June-July and the tests are performed. Hopefully, some head-to-head stock tests will be done to finally answer that question.

 

WHAT THE F? YOU MEAN THERE'S A NEW E63 ENGINE? What the hell... why wasn't I told about this?

I mean, its not like there's some 100 threads on the subject already, right?

Come here son... smack......... smack smack.



Loren

 

i will say this again, if u gonna go the N/A high revving route, buy the E60 M5.

 

Explain yourself. Thanks

 

If the gearing is setup correctly, the 7speed E63 will be able to apply a multiplier of (7/5) to its torque by comparison. 465ft/lbs x 1.4 = 651 ft/lbs effective torque when using the 7spd compared to a 5 spd if the gear/diff ratio spread covers the same range. The only place this would not be noticed as much would be 1st gear, when the engine would have to climb to its tq band. All other gears during a WOT run should keep the motor in the tq band.

 

Why?

 

OK.
from engine/performance point of view, the ///M and AMG have been 2 different approach to the market.
///M believes in the naturally aspirated route. small block, high red-line, low torque #, high hp obtained by high revving.
AMG uses big block and forced induction, it has MONSTER torque, with low redline low revving.

The result? even-steven. the E46 M3 vs old CLK55, or the E60 M5 vs W211 E55, all pretty much equal in speed.
which car to get, would depend on your preference and driving habit. are you a torque addict? or u prefer high revving N/A.

lots of ppl like the E55 cuz it has gobs of power, and it is relatively easy to modify for more power since its a supercharged engine, unlike those 100hp per liter N/A where it's pretty much tuned to the max and hard to squeeze for more.
now, if the new 63 forgo the old AMG way, the big block with forced induction way, and enters the high revving N/A route, it enters a game where BMW M has been playing well. it will be very difficult to beat the ///M at its own game.

look at the spec:
E63 is V8, M5 is V10.
E63 has a redline prolly somewhere in lo-mid 7000, M5 is 8250.
E63 has 7 sp auto, M5 has 7 sp sequential.
The M5 engine is a better engine without a doubt in my opinion.

 

I've said this sooo many times; when comparing the M5 to the E55/63 remember the E AMG cars were/are designed to be more of a luxohigh performance car, where as the M was designed to be a better handling more sport oriented car with an SMG trans etc, most benz owners never take there E55's to the track, (except for our crowd) would never be happy with that touchy SMG gear box and would miss the E's excellent and quieter interior, softer ride, etc compared to the BMW's...they really are two different types of cars. For most the E AMG is a much better everyday car especially for the US that can and will smoke about 95% of the production cars on the road today and do so with the upmost of aplomb.

 

I agree with almost everything you said, & it makes perfect sense. I don't agree with the statement of the M5 engine being better than the E63 though. The 6.3 engine has not been tested enough to know it's true potential, it is the first engine entirely built by AMG, (not a modified version of existing MB engines) it also produces the same amount of hp as a V8 that the M5 produces as a V10. Remember that AMG didn't always use forced induction, this is only recent with the 55K's. AMG always used n/a big bore V8's before the K's came out, a game they also played for a long time.

Only time will tell.

 

Why is the M5 engine better?

It takes more moving parts (V10 vs V8) that rev higher to make the same HP, Less Torque and gets worse Gas Mileage.

How is that a better engine?

I have no doubt that the M5 will still outhandle an E63 but the engine won't be the reason.

Schiz

 

110% correct.
thats why i said "from engine/performance point of view ... only".

BMW and Benz has always been apple vs orange.
one is sporty with some luxury.
one is luxury with some sporty.
thats why they have its own market share and targeted buyers.

 

i understand they did not just supercharge every engine for AMG models.
but the power has always been obtained by using big block. as opposed to the high revving small block concept of ///M.

don't get me wrong. i hope the E63 will be a great car, so time will tell.

 

as i stated, it is MY opinion that it is better.
I prefer higher revving. i prefer v10 over v8.
either give me gobs of torque(like the E55), or give me little torque but high revving(like M5), do not give me something inbetween thats not a torque monster but do not really rev high either.

and as for gas mileage. i don't know how anyone would know which has better mpg, the E63 engine is not out yet. and whatever says on the paper is never accurate anyway.

 

While the 7 speed will keep the motor in its torque band better, your math (7/5 being used as a multiplier) is completely incorrect.

The actual gear ratios are needed to determine torque at the wheels, not the NUMBER of gears.

 

I would take either car if given a chance. However I've decided that I'm done with high revving cars like the M5. I love the low end torque of the current 55 motors. I came from the Honda world and they're nothing but a bunch of high revvers. Seems like BMW and AMG are headed in that direction as well.

Another thing to consider is that AMG rarely puts out something that's pushing out its full potential. ///M motors on the other hand live life on the edge with every possible HP extracted.

 

I think this issue will come down to who is doing the testing. Car and Driver always seems to be able to beat the MB published figures, but some magazines don't. I can't see the new E63 being much faster off the line maybe a .1 of a second or so, but as speed increases it should leave the E55 behind enough for it to be noticed by no matter who is doing the testing. I mean Car and Driver got the E55 wagon to 60mph in like 4.1 seconds, its going to be very hard to beat that. The sedan was 4.2 seconds, also going to be hard to beat. The surprise performer of the bunch will be the E550 IMO, going to be at 5 seconds flat I think.

M

 

Think about it this way:

1)Final drive ratio being kept the same, the 7 speed box can cover the spread the 5 speed used to, with shorter gearing designed to let each upshift drop the engine revs into a higher, narrower band over the same course of wheel speed that 5 gears used to.
2)The 7 speed box can be designed with the same 1st 5 ratios as the 5spd, but with the addition of 2 more overdrive gears. This allows for a much shorter rear diff ratio in the 63 motored car.

Either way, or via a combination of both you can set up the gearing to achieve up to an effective 1.4x multiplier of the resultant wheel torque with respect to keeping the same top speed.

 

Does no one here love revs as much as I do? 8500rpm sounds a million times better than 6500rpm to me! I don't think the sound will be as throaty, but it sure will scream!

 

The new AMG V8 is no doubt a monster of an engine, however, its torque curve is, well, "reasonable". The V8's torque curve is lacking at low revs, great at mid revs but then falls at high revs. The M5's curve in comparison is like a straight line, the way that engine maintains its torque is stunning.

To make the most out of the new engine, the 7G has to be tuned LIKE the SMG -->this is simply not the case. The gear ratios are completely out of synch with each other, 1st gear is quick, 2nd is extremely so, whilst 3rd/4th and 5th take you evenly to 160mph. 6th and 7th are pretty much overdrive. The MB engineers may know something we don't with regards to this completely perplexing gear arrangement, but IMO, if I were to do a 7 gear tranny, I would make 1st short, 7th reasonably long and everything in between pretty quick to maximise the torque output with the number of gears on offer. MB have simply not done this. AMG's lack of budget and lack of desire to develop a new transmission perhaps DGS-like is disappointing. I look around and see cars like the 430/new 997T, and of course, the crushing 599GTB and I am disappointed at AMG. Whilst this new engine is a masterpiece of design, it simply doesn't hold the credentials to out-gun the opposition. The lack of an aggressive transmission and lack of power (oh, come on, have you seen how fast the aforementioned cars are!!?) is hugely off-putting.

Another thing, the M5's engine has won international engine of the year award yet again, for the 2nd year running. The V8 achieved 4th best new engine! Of course, the M5's engine sounds like a diesel and only gets interesting above 5000rpms, its ability to sustain torque and its aggressive transmission put it well ahead of the E55 and E63 at high speeds. As a naturally pessimistic fellow, I hope to be pleasantly surprised by this new engine, but until then, I am disappointed.

 

i do. i love the N/A high revving concept.
i rather have 230 lb-ft of torque from 2000rpm-8000rpm like the NSX, than hvae 350 lb-ft of torque from 3500-5000rpm like a C5 vette.

oh yeah, as for engine sound, the absolutely sweetest sounding v8 in the whole world is:
a OBD1 F355 with a tubi exhaust and de-cat.

 

great post.