RJC

Grumpy, just curios, what's with the 666 ?

Grumpy666

What's to explain? It's only a moniker. I'm the Grumpy Devil.

KompressorKev

we will see how responsive it is to mods. 6.2l is quite big, perhaps tuners can squeeze more out of it. maybe headers, throttle body upgrades, induction path upgrades (changing the geometry?), cylinder heads, intake manifold (altho it's already dual stage resonance, made out of magnesium, this may be hard to improve upon), camshafts, who knows? on the e60 m5, it's rumored that a full exhaust system headers back yields great power results. granted, the engine configurations are different, and v10 vs v8, etc etc etc, but i wouldn't count it out completely as zero room for modification just because it's a high-revving n/a config. yes, it won't be as responsive to mods as the e55 is, but in terms of acceleration, we will see. i do believe a heavily modded e55 will beat a modded e63, however, i just can't see an N/A 4000lb car running low-11's (even high 10's) as some e55's do!

RJC

With countless names, symbols etc to have as your user name, why you would even remotely want be associated with "666"?

No worries to each his/her own...

FlyByNight

Good lord, you are quite the hypocrite. You say you won't engage, but not only do you post about how you will not, but you then take further jabs. What a pile of professorial crap. Your narcissism and holier than thou attitude is really entertaining. I just wish it was intelligent.

I wasn't hiding or covering anything... and no one else here would interpret it as that either. They'd see if for what it was, a misunderstanding and your obviously “uber” sensitive-to-criticism side. Is the word "silly" really so insulting to justify "imbecile"? Who is the hurt child really?

Face it, you have a reputation for being a stuck up elitist ***... and I've seen your posts and often wondered how large your mouth would be if these discussions were in person. And then I realized you hide behind these words and this place. And that’s just dandy. However, when you meet someone who is more Hemingway to your Milton, realize it’s not the size or obscurity of the word… but the intent of the author.

That said, anyone here with an IQ over 40 who has read my posts before knows that I’m famous for long and thorough posts... often funny ones too. My “diatribe” and this response are nothing compared to what I’ve posted dozens of times before. Much longer posts... in threads you've read and posted in. And you want to use the length of my post as ammo to underscore some argument about my maturity level? Hellllloooo... Genius, I always write a lot. Get over it. You're not special, and shame on you for making such an amateur and baseless observation.

Sorry Grumpy… I type 100 words a minute… compared to your hunt and peck, this takes me less time than your paltry, meaningless and limp-wristed sentences.

But really good to see how you took the high road and chose not to engage! Go ahead and respond. Say I'm obviously emotionally disturbed, too stupid to know what a pulley is, took your bait, that this is all predictable, and you plan all your "battles of honor". Blah, blah, blah. Everyone will see how high that road you walk on actually is. Truth be told, I think they already know. It would be nice to see you stop jumping on people, but since you don't, I figure I'm as well equipped to handle your pile of BS and ego as anyone.

This is the only medium you know HOW to fight in, so go ahead and give it a whirl. I won't agree its about high roads or low ones, honor or class, maturity or psychological ramifications, however. That's in your own imaginary world... and this is your playground.

I'll agree its fun. I'll agree you take it all way too seriously. I'll agree I often mispellll because I type so fast. I'll agree I thought you were talking about something else, and that either way, both concepts are silly... err... lame. I'll agree you might just be a little crazy. I'll again agree you're way too serious. I'll also agree you're kind of a dork and are probably compensating for something we don't want to hear about. I'll agree I love comedy and sarcasm, and I'll apologize for making you the victim during our "engagement". But that's about it. Past that, I'll just agree its fun to "engage" someone as uptight and high strung as you.

Love you Grumpy devil,

Loren

RossN

This engine can handle a lot more power, your main limitation will be in the driveline like the 7 speed. With todays tuning, Tuners should be able to bump HP right up to the tranny limit through most of the rpm range via the ECU.

Stage 1 for the 6.2L might consist of;
- Exhaust, Headers and downpipes + high flow cats.

Stage 2
- Stock OEM Intakes Massage. Stock can almost always stand to be improved through porting and massaging. No one is going to take the Heads off of one of these engines for a port job so to increase breathing your looking at a Cold Air Kit and Filter upgrade and maybe a Intake port and or Thottle Body Bore Increase.

Probably need a Tranny Upgrade Kit beyond this point.

Stage 3
- New S/C via Kleemann or Renntech.

Has anyone made contact with Kleemann, Renntech, or Brabus to see what they have in store for the 6.2L?

I suspect Kleemann will bring a brand new S/C to the 6.2L just like they did for the 5.4L in the W210 E55. It will be a low pressure boost Unit for the already high CR of the 6.2L. I would guess it would take them a year or so to do it since they are a smaller company with limited R&D capital.

Brabus probably will have something earlier than Kleemann as they are always ready to roll up their sleeves and go head to head with AMG. Probably a ne S/C as well, expect big $$ for being first to Mod.

Renntech will.... ???

Start saving now....

benzmodz

Let me save you all the running around. Order the pace car kit and Nurburg ring setup.

Do you really feel the need to phone a dozen suppliers and get an army of people working on these cars. All it takes is one phone call and one check and AMG will carbon the interior, fit it with racing seats and turn that city ho into a racing b_tch.

AMG does a lot more than sell rims and body kits.

PS: Most F1 cars have 7 speed boxes now.

Germancar1

I honestly don't see what the issue is here. Those aftermarket tuners will just have to resort to turbo charging the new engine and beefing up the 7-speed tranny. That is their job to figure out to modify the stock setup. Mercedes doesn't owe them anything nor should they need to keep them in mind when designing a new model. In less than a year Brabus and all the others will have mods for the new engine and tranny.

M

FlyByNight

Or they could ignore all that and put in a special super duper pulley replacement kit good for about 6.7 horsepower made by Mr. Grumpy666... bahahahaha....



Loren

medici78

I agree with some that the E55 will end up holding its value better than expected. Not saying it won't depreciate, but I foresee the E55 being more desireable than the E63 4-5 years down the line due to the modability.

benzmodz

Yes, we are all interested in modding 10 year old cars .... look at the forum and the 10 year old cars listed now and the 6.9 ...... how many tumbleweeds went past today ?



Not only will the E55 keep going down but so will the E63. Its just another car and the modders are not numerous enough to keep the market price high.

Mr.Trump

That sucks for anyone that want to upgrade...

FlyByNight

Sadly, I have to agree... those who keep extremely low miles on their E55s / E63s might have a following, though. And if this gas crunch keeps moving, we may revisit an era that previously killed muscle cars... THAT would make these cars much more collectible and limit further / enhanced versions of them because manufacturers would have to emphasize economy over power.



Loren

medici78

The comparison to older M-B models is pointless. How many factory Forced Induction performance cars has M-B released since the 6.9? No previous M-B's ever responded so greatly to simple upgrades, thanks to the FI. The 5.5K engines are in a league of their own compared to anything M-B released previously. They are very strong engines and powergains that previously involved extremely expensive engine conversions (look back to the bored/stroked Brabus, Renntech, AMG examples) can be achieved with a simple pulley/ecu/header upgrade. I am confident that tuners will continue to exploit the power potential of these engines to a higher degree. Here on mbworld, we have vrus as an excellent example of someone willing to strike out on their own and show what can be done with creative thinking. You would have never seen this spirit in modifying an M-B on any previous performance models.

siswati

Medici - I couldnt have said it better - this engine is something really special -way beyond being awesome in its stock state, its ability to go far beyond its origins will ensure that many keep seeking it out. It is WAY different from most other MB engines to date. I know I have no interest in bying a 10 year old "modable" MB, but that doesnt mean that others wont be standing in line.

Unfortuantely the continuing demand wont mean didly for its resale value, but it will help the car (engine) to develop some "classic" status (wrong term but you get the idea). You just have to look at other cars that had something special on offer - take a look at the demand for the Nissan Skylines - if you are a drifter, its your number one choice these days and I guess Nissan never gave it much thought when they penned the car some 20 years ago.

I have a feeling that the 55K engines will have a long and fruitful life as desirable modder cars with awesome potential on tap - the only difference is that its real cheap to go modding the Skyline for drifting, and its a realy biyatch doing it with a 55k car!!!!!

Rock

Agreed!!! I see the 55 like the Supra turbo of the 90s. That car remains desirable even today because of its modification potential and a rock solid engine.

benzmodz

If 1% of people own a Benz then less than 10% of people want to mod. Of those mods only a small number are the engine mod people. Hence the insane cost of the parts.

That puts you in an class all of your own. Therefore if the value of the car as a whole were to shift you would be powerless to have any control over it. If the market decides that the 63 is the way of the future then you would basically end up in 20 years as the old farts who dream of the 55 glory days and go to car rallies with your showroom condition Sunday car (just like the 6.9 owners do now).

You dont see it .... but all I am saying is that every generation has their glory car. The gull wing, the C112, the GTR, the 6.9, the AMG55. You are just heading that way because you can't let go .... LET GO MAN !

JLP

I'm sorry but in reality all cars are depreciating liabilities and when I purchased my E55 the last thing on my mind was how much its going to depreciate. I couldn't care less.........I bought the car because it is an amazing performing sedan and has huge tuning potential.
If you want to talk about people modding old cars go to a site called Rennlist, its a Porsche site and people there are spending thousands of dollars modding 20 year old 944 turbos..........my point is the E55 will always be a great platform for people who want to modify a car..........and it always will be, the fact that a NA E63 is coming will only help the E55's legendary status in the aftermarket world.
Our E55's will become more desirable IMHO and possibly supercede the E63's value one day, anything is possible.

RJC

Im not performance modding my car at all, it doesn't need it IMHO, I am adding the rear 63 lip spoiler and that's about it. I knew the 63 was coming out but got the 55 because it's been in the hands of the public for 4 full model years and it's finally just about perfect,the 63 has a long way to go before most of the bugs are worked out. I do think in time, the 63 will prove to be a better overall car than the 55 as I like most of the updates and the new NA engine should be a jewel even without the 50 extra pound feet of torque. I also chose the 55 because the all new E will be out in 2008 and my lease on the 55 will be over in 09 which will be perfect timing.

FlyByNight

I think the point isn't about looking at the past and calculating how different the 55 is, and therefore a more viable long term mod-driven car. Yes, compared to past cars the 55 kills them across the board... out of the box its insane. Modifiable? You bet... ask that F430 I just confused. If time froze, that would be true. They ARE in a league of their own.

That said, I think the point is that the FUTURE will bring even more craziness into the mix making the 55 less appealing down the road as far as aftermarket options. There will be newer engines and technologies that will also be in a league of their own.

The future does that. What is state of the art now probably won't be later. Forget depreciation... just put the ability to modify on the table. As advances come down the road, it will be commonplace to get a very very fuel / substance efficient 500 or 600 hp motor... and maybe even easier to modify them (did any of you see my post on the 2 speed supercharger? That thing is going to change a lot of motors!). Think about it... how many 400 to 500 hp cars are just laying about nowadays? An R63 is a 500 hp minivan! GTO, Magnum, SRT8... hell... even a Jeep... are sitting at 400 plus without FI. Z06, CTS-V, STS-V... all just behind the 55. Competition is out there, and its pushing everything forward FASTER. Jesus... 10 years from now we'll have some crazy cars that will draw attention away from our beloved 55s.

Unless the fuel crisis thing happens I mentioned, the thirst for power and efficiency will progress. Technology marches on... and you can bet the 63 is a step in that direction. Sure, it isn't going to be as easily modifiable as our 55s right now. But the next generation of it might... just like the W210 55s turned into our "Beast".... the 63 is a step.

Really, they squeezed more HP out of that NA engine than our motors produce, and only sacrificed a bit of torque compared to the lame M5's torque amputation. And its displacement only went up a tick. Very nice. That motor, reinforced, could be one insane building block. A V12 version of that motor would be nutty. The future is just that... unpredictable. But its reliable. And everything that is awesome now will be technologically old school and less appealing later, to mod or otherwise, because NEWER goodies will be out there.

Didn't you see Back to the future? I can't wait to burn my trash.... but I'll always love my 55...



Loren

Bipasha493

are the rotors on the E63 crossed drilled and slotted?

sly55

Hi guys, new to your forum.. just wanted to have a quick LOL at Loren and Grumpy, it has been entertaining reading your posts. I especially like how no one else gets involved and leaves it a one-on-one! Loren i do enjoy your posts and Grumpy i have read some great tech stuff in yours, but as i am very bored atm, i would like to say that i think Loren started it by misunderstanding Grumpy, and Grumpy retaliated a bit harshly. LOL!

But keep up the good posts, great forum by the way, there is so much USEFUL information on here, unlike the many BS banter that you find dominating other forums...

medici78

You totally missed my point, but I'm not even gonna bother.
As for letting go? WTF are you talking about? I don't plan to have this another 6 months, let alone the 20 years you are suggesting.

sly55

as mentioned the aftermarket will always find a solution. A seven speed with a 500+hp motor is going to be awesome. If your going to keep your car for a while and play with it then yes the 55 will get you easier power gains, but from where i come from and these cars cost over AUD$200,000 and even more in HK, it is pretty safe to say that anyone who can buy a new 63 will be able to afford the aftermarket mods if they wish to go that way.

rusbel

Forced induction. Period. Hopefully the '08 will have the twin turbo set up, though...