MACHC5

Guys, Sounds like MB is using Torque Management in the ECU to keep the tuners from turning up the HP.

GM has Torque Management in the ECU's on their vehicles to keep from having alot of drivetrain warranty claims.

Now when they reflash a GM ECU the info gets moved around & you can't just recopy the tuner ECU programing.
You have to restart from scratch and redo the ECU Etc..

The better tuners will figure it out shortly.

MachC5

SleeperX

This is a serious issue. Do you know what is causing the loss in HP? What could they have changed in the ECU?

2MANYCARS

O2 sensors are PITA to deal with, no matter what brand or model. Couple things about the O2's I've learned over the years from modifying cars are either "Circuit Voltage Too High" or "Circuit Voltage Too Low", which are both related to secondary O2s. Couple solutions had worked for me before on other cars, but I don't know how they will come out with the 55s.

First, you can tig weld a secondary pipe on spot where the secondary O2s used to be, thread the other end on the new pipe, and screw in your O2. Reason being is that the sensor is not sitting in the main stream of exhaust, thus it won't trigger the "Circuit Voltage Too High" code, but at the same time, you have to make sure it's somewhat close enough to measure something so it won't give you the other code. This method is very tricky and time consuming because of trial error, but once you've got it taken care of, it will work wonders, again and again.

Second one, which is somewhat chessy, but been proven to work 100% on Subaru WRX's/STI's. What you do is pick up some electrical resistors and insert them into the O2 wiring plug harnesses. Make sure the plug is well kept away from water, you can use converlube (sp?) tubing to conseal it.

I hope some tuners will come out with solutions on diabling O2 checks on the ECU along with their reflashes, as that's the easiest way to do it, and it's BEST fix for this.

Grumpy666

The basis of my qustion is the picture that Victor posted in a thread several months ago showing his stock exhaust system. I've included it below. I see the big-*** cats right off the headers, what look to be resonators mid-car, and mufflers right before the chrome tips. Where are the secondary cats? Some systems use small pre-converters right after the exhaust manifold to provide emission control until the main cats come up to temperature, but not on this system.

FYI - The SS verbiage you quoted is intended to sell exhaust systems. I would be somewhat leery of its content. Current-day cats with open-cell technology do not cause severely restricted exhaust flow, like the pellet systems from three decades ago. Stock cars put out about 500 HP, with modded cars getting closer to 600 HP using the stock exhaust system. Does that sound severely restricted to you?




Without knowing what the signal from the non-standard MB sensor looks like, I can't really comment. Perhaps you could ask one of the tuners. All the secondary O2 sensor does is monitor the efficiency of the cat. The ECU expects to see a constant voltage from this sensor, unlike the the rapid voltage cycling of the primary sensor, which controls the fuel mixture in closed-loop mode.


I have no affiliation with MB or any other car manufacturer. I started the other thread because of an apparent trend that I was seeing from some of the posts. It was intended to solicit more data and make others aware of a potential problem. No malice intended. I do not own an AMG or any other kind of Benz. When I joined this forum last year, I was considering an E55, but have since decided against that. I drive a Bimmer and a GMC.

dragonAMG

I'll hit the dyno sometime this week. My car feels much faster after getting the recall and loading the new K2 program. Not too mention from a 30mph roll I spanked my buddies stock E55 by about 6-7 cars to about 90mph. TorettoAMG, if you read this... no hard feelings, we're still buds ... just gotta represent for the K2's.

FlyByNight

Damn I'm so confused! Rock... didn't you just post how you had Cory redo the ECU and it was "scary" fast? So then why no more 11sec runs?

I'm about to go to the dealer in the am, get the flash, send the ECU to Cory, get it back... what EXACTLY are the drawbacks you've experienced with this whole process???

Scary fast sounded nice until this thread. Are you saying I should just skip the ECU flash and send it to Cory for the new K2 program... and from now until eternity gaurd against a reflash each time I visit?



Loren

dragonAMG

I'm with you Loren... I'm so damn confused. Cory at Kleemann recommended that I get the recall done and send in the ECU for the new K2 program. That's exactly what I did and now my car feels faster, much faster.

E55 RUSS

This is so confusing anf scary...

I send to my dealer all bullitens and told them to do all upgrades...

stevebez

This is wierd - I have had my '06 since Jan16 and no recalls what-so-ever. I find it wierd that there is s such a big software diff between the US & Euro specs. Ah also I have had no S/C shutdown at all and temps on coolant never get above 95deg C - regardless of how much I punish it or level of ambient temps. With regular driving it sits around 88deg C.

I need to get my car to the track and see whats what.

PTE

Hi All:
Back on 06/02/06 I was working on a 160 f / 71 c thermostat mods. I made you aware of the impending change I found , when trying to do so data logging. I called RFLOW 306 in a Panic!!He helped me confirm My findings. Not to be an ALARMIST. lets just look at at what we have at hand. Most good Tuners will find a way to get around this small road block. If they haven't already done so. #2 . We are now dealing with the power robbing heat of the summer. So back to back comparisions. Might not line up well. #3 . We really should be running some sort of cat any way. If not for us , but for the future healthy enviroment for our childern. Hold tight , we will endure the change. You can bet SEMA & 7 other tuners have run into these same road blocks. and have found a way around them , Plus kept our cars emissions compliant
___PTE___

E55 RUSS

May be cause US car that are 2006 are actually produced in 2005 ??? same for other years...

stevebez

My build date was in sept '05 some time ... so dunno ?

Rock

Grump, I was just busting your chops. I appreciate your technical expertise and you contribution to this forum. After reading this thread I bet your glad you don't actually own an AMG.

Rock

I posted that for hourclass because he runs 11's with his stock ECU. I figured that would not happen again after he gets his next Mercedes service.

Yes, my car feels significantly faster now that I have the new K2 software. I will hopefully get to the track on Friday.

I will pm you the K2 details.

Jakpro1

Wow, I'm in terror.

I have 5K to go before another service.....guess I will hope for the best then.

If this sticks and we can't fix.....it's HELLO 2003-04 S600 with ECU for me......til those ba$tards restrict THOSE ECU's.

hydeaway

You can always tell you SA to not update your ECU when you do your service.

L8Apex

Thanks for for all of the help guys!

dragonAMG

Exactly... just make sure you tell them in advance. I'm not going to let them do any other reflashes on my ecu... that is for sure.

housclass

exactly my thoughts!

john

jenk12m

i'm glad to see i'm not the only dealing with this issue. i've sent my ecu to cory 3 times already b/c of the check engine light coming on. it seems like the newer models are the ones who have to have some kind of 02 sensor in the car for the check engine light to not come on. talking to chris at c2design, he made it seem like cory found a solution for the ecu on the models made before 04. it's frustrating right now b/c my 03 s55 w/k2 felt extremely fast when i got it back this last time, but after 100miles of driving it feels like it has gotten slower. i'll find out for sure when i head down to silver dollar on the 15th of july. best time so far has been 12.4 @ 112 on a track elevated 1002ft

oblax4

I just talked to Bob at RennTech (second time in a week) about this issue, because this post has gotten me so paranoid about having the recall work done. He ASSURES me that they have been re-writing the ECU programs after the recall work for the last four months and have had no problems re-gaining the power after MB does their ruinous re-flash. I am not a computer guy, so don't really understand all this stuff, but for those of you who have RennTech tuning, I think it would be worth your time to give Bob a call and discuss this with him. He made me feel much better about scheduling my recall work. Feedback from RennTech modders would be much appreciated! Good luck!

Does anyone know Rob Allan (head of AMG in U.S.) well enough to ask him about this? I have two e-mail addresses for him, but don't think I understand the topic well enough to discuss this with him.

Ted Baldwin

.................very good point. There is DEFINITELY a problem. Kleemann Denmark is aware and has been working on a solution. I have personal knowledge because mine is one of the ECU's that cannot be re-programmed correctly.

..........If folks at Renntech have had no issues, perharps they have a different programmer and as you stated, info from Renntech customers will be appreciated. My belief is that those Renntech customers that have had no issues may simply not have re-dynoed or taking their car to the track for reapeat trapspeed measurement.

.............Finally, if it turns out that REnntech does indeed have a solution, is Renntech willing to accept ECU's from Kleemann customers for reprogramming for a fee?

Ted

oblax4

I'd be willing to bet that RennTech would re-program any ECU for a fee. They said they'd only charge me shipping for this work on mine, since they did the original tuning. I suggest people call and ask (RennTech: 561-845-7888).

As I think more about this, the more I think someone should contact Rob Allan with a very strong complaint - how about someone who understands programming? I have e-mail addresses (2) for him.

Jakpro1

Yes true, but even Cor at Klee will tell you, they will FREAK if you do not accept the flash (if it's part of the recall) and it seems that it IS part of the recall fix.

Reflashing to solve problems is one thing, but a so called "safety recall" they take seriously and will really give you crap if you demand they not flash the ECU.

TED, thanks so much for doing all the legwork....keep me updated as to what you find out on the Klee and Renn info.

FlyByNight

This explains a lot...



Loren