Class Action Suit
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 791
Likes: 0
From: Monroe, Louisiana
SL 65 AMG and E63s AMG
Class Action Suit
This a question for the lawyers in the peanut gallery.
A few years ago Ford advertised a HP and Torque rating for the Cobra and when dynoed the cars didn't deliver. As I recall Ford revised the heads and several other things to allow the 4.6 blown motor to perform as advertised. This kept the FCC from persuing truth in advertising suits and a class action suit from owners.
As it looks now, MB has reduced the torque and HP of the E55. If the dyno numbers don't live up to the advertised values, what would stop a similar situation from occurring in our case.
Would it be worth the trouble and expense of a class action suit on behalf of disgruntled E55 owners?
A few years ago Ford advertised a HP and Torque rating for the Cobra and when dynoed the cars didn't deliver. As I recall Ford revised the heads and several other things to allow the 4.6 blown motor to perform as advertised. This kept the FCC from persuing truth in advertising suits and a class action suit from owners.
As it looks now, MB has reduced the torque and HP of the E55. If the dyno numbers don't live up to the advertised values, what would stop a similar situation from occurring in our case.
Would it be worth the trouble and expense of a class action suit on behalf of disgruntled E55 owners?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,662
Likes: 1
From: South Florida
STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
where have you see a revised HP and TQ figure for the E55? most who dyno their E55 notice that cars are MORE powerful than MB states....
Originally Posted by Vetluver
This a question for the lawyers in the peanut gallery.
A few years ago Ford advertised a HP and Torque rating for the Cobra and when dynoed the cars didn't deliver. As I recall Ford revised the heads and several other things to allow the 4.6 blown motor to perform as advertised. This kept the FCC from persuing truth in advertising suits and a class action suit from owners.
As it looks now, MB has reduced the torque and HP of the E55. If the dyno numbers don't live up to the advertised values, what would stop a similar situation from occurring in our case.
Would it be worth the trouble and expense of a class action suit on behalf of disgruntled E55 owners?
A few years ago Ford advertised a HP and Torque rating for the Cobra and when dynoed the cars didn't deliver. As I recall Ford revised the heads and several other things to allow the 4.6 blown motor to perform as advertised. This kept the FCC from persuing truth in advertising suits and a class action suit from owners.
As it looks now, MB has reduced the torque and HP of the E55. If the dyno numbers don't live up to the advertised values, what would stop a similar situation from occurring in our case.
Would it be worth the trouble and expense of a class action suit on behalf of disgruntled E55 owners?
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 820
Likes: 1
From: La Quinta, CALIF.
2009 C63 Black on Black
What's going on here with the published numbers?
Vetluver: Do you have confirmation that MB has revised downward the E55 HP and Torque numbers? If they revise down from the 469HP and 516 Torque numbers then there is something here that we need to look at closely! My position is that if they sold us 469 & 516 as the numbers and are now revising these down then something is awry here. Maybe they are trying to make the E63 look better from a marketing standpoint. Post any info you have on a downward revision. I have an E63 on order & spec'd it out 2 months ago to replace my E55 that comes off lease in 60 days. I do not feel good about this!! (could this be tied to the ECU problems the Modified ECU guys are seeing?)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 387
From: Kenilworth, il usa
GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
If anything,MB was under reporting the real hp of the E55.
You can dyno all you want,you will not find a lower hp then the official one...
Another "stupid" and pointless lawsuit is what I hate about this Country,it just keeps automakers out of offering certain cars or options in our Market because of this idiotic and opportunistic threat of lawsuits.
You can dyno all you want,you will not find a lower hp then the official one...
Another "stupid" and pointless lawsuit is what I hate about this Country,it just keeps automakers out of offering certain cars or options in our Market because of this idiotic and opportunistic threat of lawsuits.
Last edited by absent; Jun 29, 2006 at 08:54 PM.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 791
Likes: 0
From: Monroe, Louisiana
SL 65 AMG and E63s AMG
I'm not talking about revised numbers published by MB. I'm talking about the recall campaign that may have dropped the performance of the 03-06 E55.
I think that this change in software, torque management programming may have affected not only the modded cars but also the stock vehicles.
The kick of my E55 is definitely less since the recall reflash.
I think that this change in software, torque management programming may have affected not only the modded cars but also the stock vehicles.
The kick of my E55 is definitely less since the recall reflash.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,662
Likes: 1
From: South Florida
STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
put your car on the dyno and we'll see if it's making below the norm after the recall....
Originally Posted by Vetluver
I'm not talking about revised numbers published by MB. I'm talking about the recall campaign that may have dropped the performance of the 03-06 E55.
I think that this change in software, torque management programming may have affected not only the modded cars but also the stock vehicles.
The kick of my E55 is definitely less since the recall reflash.
I think that this change in software, torque management programming may have affected not only the modded cars but also the stock vehicles.
The kick of my E55 is definitely less since the recall reflash.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 820
Likes: 1
From: La Quinta, CALIF.
2009 C63 Black on Black
absent, you have no background on this!
Absent, since you do not own an E55 Kompressor your comments here are meaningless. You have no frame of reference on this latest recall of which the pattern seems to be consistent, Less feel of power. You should refrain from commenting on something that you know nothing about. There have been many recalls on our E55 Kompressor and the pattern seems to be consistent here. Go ahead and hate lawyers and lawsuits all you want but there seems to be a basis here in that consistently many have felt the power dropoff after the recall. It may be another "programming error" on the ECU update but the result is consistent amongst us!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 387
From: Kenilworth, il usa
GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
Originally Posted by deaguero
Absent, since you do not own an E55 Kompressor your comments here are meaningless. You have no frame of reference on this latest recall of which the pattern seems to be consistent, Less feel of power. You should refrain from commenting on something that you know nothing about. There have been many recalls on our E55 Kompressor and the pattern seems to be consistent here. Go ahead and hate lawyers and lawsuits all you want but there seems to be a basis here in that consistently many have felt the power dropoff after the recall. It may be another "programming error" on the ECU update but the result is consistent amongst us!
I do not have a habit of listing every car owned, now or previously or what I have on order,just the daily driver at the moment.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 3
Mercedes Benz
while we all would like to thing our butt dyno's are very accurate, this is all hot air until someone has 2 dyno plots showing the reduction in power.
I have not driven the car much since the recall was done but I never noticed a difference. Maybe it is slower but I always think my car is a weak sauce car. Owning a car for a few years means you have adjusted to the power so maybe we all are just over reacting.
But I do agree about bogus lawsuites. Everyone is so quick to call a lawyer yet no one has even gone to a dyno to get real proof.
Seems like we need to get our ducks in a row people.
Bet the cars dyno the exact same figures. Maybe tq management has been changed to make the car smoother but I doubt they made them weaker.
I have not driven the car much since the recall was done but I never noticed a difference. Maybe it is slower but I always think my car is a weak sauce car. Owning a car for a few years means you have adjusted to the power so maybe we all are just over reacting.
But I do agree about bogus lawsuites. Everyone is so quick to call a lawyer yet no one has even gone to a dyno to get real proof.
Seems like we need to get our ducks in a row people.
Bet the cars dyno the exact same figures. Maybe tq management has been changed to make the car smoother but I doubt they made them weaker.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 948
Likes: 0
From: Irvine, California
'10 MB E63, '08 ML550 ('05 E55, '05 SL55, '08 E63 GONE)
That 469HP is very accurate...
Dyno results in the real world (higher or lower) are hardly a good measure of real engine output. These machines are rarely calibrated and tests are not standardized. Great for seeing results of mods, but not for any real number results.
~ Ian
Dyno results in the real world (higher or lower) are hardly a good measure of real engine output. These machines are rarely calibrated and tests are not standardized. Great for seeing results of mods, but not for any real number results.
~ Ian
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,174
Likes: 19
From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
We need a stock E55 dyno before and after. before you can entertain any lawsuits...
The other issue is - which no one has mentioned - perhaps the changes allow our cars to deliver more consistent power - albeit maybe more smooth, with less S/C shut down. Dunno ? But Dyno will reveal all, and maybe a trip to the track.
Again - no recall advice received for my 06 UK spec.
The other issue is - which no one has mentioned - perhaps the changes allow our cars to deliver more consistent power - albeit maybe more smooth, with less S/C shut down. Dunno ? But Dyno will reveal all, and maybe a trip to the track.
Again - no recall advice received for my 06 UK spec.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 387
From: Kenilworth, il usa
GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
Originally Posted by moldowan
Absent,
do you live off of green bay Road?
Last year I got married at the Harrison house and saw a killer DB9 driving down that road!
-Moldy
do you live off of green bay Road?
Last year I got married at the Harrison house and saw a killer DB9 driving down that road!
-Moldy
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
2003 E55 K1
Forget Dyno
If you think showing MB before and after dyno's will convince them there is a problem, you can forget about it. I went through all this two months ago. I have a 2003 E55 which suffered a major loss of power after recall. MB said there was no problem. I offered to do a dyno test and compare results with stock numbers for E55 and MB said dyno results are too variable and ,therefore, are meaningless. Besides, loss of power people are reporting is so obvious that it is ridiculous to argue we need to show dyno results to prove we are suffering from a loss of power.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,174
Likes: 19
From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
Originally Posted by Coalman
If you think showing MB before and after dyno's will convince them there is a problem, you can forget about it. I went through all this two months ago. I have a 2003 E55 which suffered a major loss of power after recall. MB said there was no problem. I offered to do a dyno test and compare results with stock numbers for E55 and MB said dyno results are too variable and ,therefore, are meaningless.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
2003 E55 K1
Like I said, MB WILL NOT ACCEPT DYNO RESULTS TO PROVE CAR IS NOT PERFORMING TO SPEC.!!! We are only talking about (at least in my case), a modest but noticeable loss in power. If MB will not accept dyno results because they feel it's too variable, how are we supposed to convince them that the loss in power before and after recall is due to their new software?
MB knows what changes they have made and that it is the reason for the loss in power. We need to convince them that we are not going to accept this loss and "go quietly in the night."
MB knows what changes they have made and that it is the reason for the loss in power. We need to convince them that we are not going to accept this loss and "go quietly in the night."
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 1
From: South Orange County, CA
4 wheels
on this whole ECU flash upgrade issue. Why can't someone like Kleemann or Renntech or even Brabus just reprogram the ECU's back to the way they were? Can they only edit certain parts of the ECU to tune the engine or what?
All I know is that my E55 is running a bit sluggish lately but I have been driving a K4 powered CLS55 for the better part of a few weeks now. My wife claims the car runs fine and the dealer had performed the ECU upgrade.
All I know is that my E55 is running a bit sluggish lately but I have been driving a K4 powered CLS55 for the better part of a few weeks now. My wife claims the car runs fine and the dealer had performed the ECU upgrade.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 3
Mercedes Benz
Originally Posted by Coalman
Like I said, MB WILL NOT ACCEPT DYNO RESULTS TO PROVE CAR IS NOT PERFORMING TO SPEC.!!! We are only talking about (at least in my case), a modest but noticeable loss in power. If MB will not accept dyno results because they feel it's too variable, how are we supposed to convince them that the loss in power before and after recall is due to their new software?
MB knows what changes they have made and that it is the reason for the loss in power. We need to convince them that we are not going to accept this loss and "go quietly in the night."
MB knows what changes they have made and that it is the reason for the loss in power. We need to convince them that we are not going to accept this loss and "go quietly in the night."
I had the recall done and I honestly dont see any difference. I will drive the car and see this weekend but I think its fine. My SL55 has not been touched so ill drive them back to back. THe E normally is a hair quicker so i could do another freeway run test with a friend. Bet he wont mind getting that phone call... hey can u run againt my E in my SL?
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 791
Likes: 0
From: Monroe, Louisiana
SL 65 AMG and E63s AMG
I asked this question as a supposition. I am not really considering a suit but was curious what it would take to do what the Stang guys did.
After driving all day long I know there is so sort of torque control software which is limiting peak torque.
Having driven the same route for 2 years I know what mph I can reach in certain distances and I noted 5 to 20 mph loss at virtually ever point along the way. This may not sound like much but it translates to a ton seat of the pants torque. Even more disconcerting is that my gas mileage has dropped from 15.5 mpg in town to less than 14. I have talked to my service advisor and "she's checking into it". I'm hoping that something else is wrong rather than just the reflash. I'll keep you posted.
After driving all day long I know there is so sort of torque control software which is limiting peak torque.
Having driven the same route for 2 years I know what mph I can reach in certain distances and I noted 5 to 20 mph loss at virtually ever point along the way. This may not sound like much but it translates to a ton seat of the pants torque. Even more disconcerting is that my gas mileage has dropped from 15.5 mpg in town to less than 14. I have talked to my service advisor and "she's checking into it". I'm hoping that something else is wrong rather than just the reflash. I'll keep you posted.
Super Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 648
Likes: 1
From: Chicago, IL
'08 S65, '04 Range Rover(The House), '06 Lexus GS 300(Wifey's), '02 Sea Ray 360 Sundancer
You know it's funny you mention mileage. My E has been getting some crappy mileage recently, and I have had the flash done. I am up for my 20K service soon, so I will definitely inquire as to this!
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA
2005 E55, 2010 ML350
Well, strangely enough I took my car in for the recall service but their computer was on the fritz. So they did all the mechanical work and the service D, but are waiting on their computer to be returned from NJ.
So, with that said, I'm almost cringing whether to get the flash updates or not. But I do have the ability to get the "before" and "after" measurements you guys are asking about.
I hate lawyers and class action suits and all the tort abuse that is out there. But if they truly are lowering my power on my car I'll be pissed.
Anyone got any suggestions of where I could get the car dyno'ed? I live in the bay area near walnut creek. I work down in san jose, so anywhere along that route would be more than convenient.
Cheers,
Gareth
So, with that said, I'm almost cringing whether to get the flash updates or not. But I do have the ability to get the "before" and "after" measurements you guys are asking about.
I hate lawyers and class action suits and all the tort abuse that is out there. But if they truly are lowering my power on my car I'll be pissed.
Anyone got any suggestions of where I could get the car dyno'ed? I live in the bay area near walnut creek. I work down in san jose, so anywhere along that route would be more than convenient.
Cheers,
Gareth
