Very disappointed with Kleemann mods. (Long)
#26
Originally Posted by Mad TKD
yeah its a ***** but take all of it out and run it stock. then put everything back 1 by 1 and dyno it to prove the results. Your 60 ft time is not bad so your car is really down on power. It is running stock times! I would be pissed if I spent that much to have the said power and it isnt making it. So the question is will Kleemans killer service to whatd right or will it let it go? I would kindly demand them to remove everything and start over.
#27
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MB 2006 CLS55 K4/LSD, 2006 VY C6Z06, 2005 X5 4.4
I am there with you guys, my car dynoed at 600 crank hp at kleemann, but I only get 435 at the rwhp at home, something is up. At the track I have trapped a 121.5 and have done 11.94, with 1.91 60' so I see some power on the track, and that's with stock rims & tires with 14k, half a tank of gas, and my first time on the track? I am sending the ECU back to Cory with the dyno sheet, so they can investigate more.
Not a very happy customer right now, I have had trouble with the install from the get go. We will see were it will end. I am also thinking about take it all off and leave it stock.
MG
Not a very happy customer right now, I have had trouble with the install from the get go. We will see were it will end. I am also thinking about take it all off and leave it stock.
MG
#28
Originally Posted by MG0427
I am there with you guys, my car dynoed at 600 crank hp at kleemann, but I only get 435 at the rwhp at home, something is up. At the track I have trapped a 121.5 and have done 11.94, with 1.91 60' so I see some power on the track, and that's with stock rims & tires with 14k, half a tank of gas, and my first time on the track? I am sending the ECU back to Cory with the dyno sheet, so they can investigate more.
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12' C63 P31, 06' Supercharged Range, 08' BMW 550i
Originally Posted by MG0427
I am there with you guys, my car dynoed at 600 crank hp at kleemann, but I only get 435 at the rwhp at home, something is up. At the track I have trapped a 121.5 and have done 11.94, with 1.91 60' so I see some power on the track, and that's with stock rims & tires with 14k, half a tank of gas, and my first time on the track? I am sending the ECU back to Cory with the dyno sheet, so they can investigate more.
Not a very happy customer right now, I have had trouble with the install from the get go. We will see were it will end. I am also thinking about take it all off and leave it stock.
MG
Not a very happy customer right now, I have had trouble with the install from the get go. We will see were it will end. I am also thinking about take it all off and leave it stock.
MG
Keep in mind your car is heavier than our 211. Throw some drag radials on there and squeak out some 1.6,1.7 60's and you'll be running 11.5-11.6x. IMO a very respectable time for a CLS55
Last edited by dragonAMG; 07-03-2006 at 02:19 PM.
#30
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2004 E55
Originally Posted by MG0427
I am there with you guys, my car dynoed at 600 crank hp at kleemann, but I only get 435 at the rwhp at home, something is up. At the track I have trapped a 121.5 and have done 11.94, with 1.91 60' so I see some power on the track, and that's with stock rims & tires with 14k, half a tank of gas, and my first time on the track? I am sending the ECU back to Cory with the dyno sheet, so they can investigate more.
Not a very happy customer right now, I have had trouble with the install from the get go. We will see were it will end. I am also thinking about take it all off and leave it stock.
MG
Not a very happy customer right now, I have had trouble with the install from the get go. We will see were it will end. I am also thinking about take it all off and leave it stock.
MG
You have to remember that the CLS is a higher (worse) drag coefficient compared to the E55's.
To be exact approx .265 compared to .31...That alone (CLS) will eat up 40rwhp in 1/4mi run as well as 4 mph in trap speed compared to the E!
Hence your 11.94 & 121.5mph in CLS is equivalent to a 11.54 & 125+ in an E!
Though an approximation - That is EXCELLENT!!
Given the same HP and TQ--an E will walk away from a CLS due to aerodynamics...anybody else want to confirm this???
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MB 2006 CLS55 K4/LSD, 2006 VY C6Z06, 2005 X5 4.4
I am not complaining about my track run, I am upset about the dyno numbers. Now I had my C6 Z06 dynoed and it did 445 @ rwhp which is in line with ZO6 which do 440 to 460 rwhp stock. So he dyno seems to work but not for my car.
MG
MG
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STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
I'm not sure the aerodynamics make that big of a difference from 0-120MPH, it certainly does play a roll, just not sure how much .29 - .31 is at those speeds.... obviously the effect gets much greater the faster you go...
I have seen a Viper with a a GTSR wing on the back pick up 2MPH in trap speeds when removing the wing.... back to back runs, just without the wing.... it's a big wing, designed to produce significant down force though.....
I have seen a Viper with a a GTSR wing on the back pick up 2MPH in trap speeds when removing the wing.... back to back runs, just without the wing.... it's a big wing, designed to produce significant down force though.....
Originally Posted by Kens-E55
If you trapped a 121.5 in a CLS w/K4 that is actually VERY GOOD!!!
You have to remember that the CLS is a higher (worse) drag coefficient compared to the E55's.
To be exact approx .265 compared to .31...That alone (CLS) will eat up 40rwhp in 1/4mi run as well as 4 mph in trap speed compared to the E!
Hence your 11.94 & 121.5mph in CLS is equivalent to a 11.54 & 125+ in an E!
Though an approximation - That is EXCELLENT!!
Given the same HP and TQ--an E will walk away from a CLS due to aerodynamics...anybody else want to confirm this???
You have to remember that the CLS is a higher (worse) drag coefficient compared to the E55's.
To be exact approx .265 compared to .31...That alone (CLS) will eat up 40rwhp in 1/4mi run as well as 4 mph in trap speed compared to the E!
Hence your 11.94 & 121.5mph in CLS is equivalent to a 11.54 & 125+ in an E!
Though an approximation - That is EXCELLENT!!
Given the same HP and TQ--an E will walk away from a CLS due to aerodynamics...anybody else want to confirm this???
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12' C63 P31, 06' Supercharged Range, 08' BMW 550i
Originally Posted by MG0427
I am not complaining about my track run, I am upset about the dyno numbers. Now I had my C6 Z06 dynoed and it did 445 @ rwhp which is in line with ZO6 which do 440 to 460 rwhp stock. So he dyno seems to work but not for my car.
MG
MG
BTW -- you couldn't have picked a better color for both of your cars. Silver CLS and Yellow Z06... gorgeous!!!!
#36
Originally Posted by MG0427
I am there with you guys, my car dynoed at 600 crank hp at kleemann, but I only get 435 at the rwhp at home, something is up. At the track I have trapped a 121.5 and have done 11.94, with 1.91 60' so I see some power on the track, and that's with stock rims & tires with 14k, half a tank of gas, and my first time on the track? I am sending the ECU back to Cory with the dyno sheet, so they can investigate more.
Not a very happy customer right now, I have had trouble with the install from the get go. We will see were it will end. I am also thinking about take it all off and leave it stock.
MG
Not a very happy customer right now, I have had trouble with the install from the get go. We will see were it will end. I am also thinking about take it all off and leave it stock.
MG
#38
Well lets give Kleemann a chance......i am sure as a tuner they are not happy with the situation either.......making hp is how they makes their living,so i feel pretty strongly about them finding the fix relitavely soon,if not they will be out of business.
Kleemann is around mutch too long to let this happens.
Not too long ago everyone was cheering "go kleemann"now everyone is anti Kleemann.
Like i said,before long they will have a fix.
My only problem with Kleeman is keeping it consistence with the people who is having problem with their car.
Kleemann is around mutch too long to let this happens.
Not too long ago everyone was cheering "go kleemann"now everyone is anti Kleemann.
Like i said,before long they will have a fix.
My only problem with Kleeman is keeping it consistence with the people who is having problem with their car.
#39
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Has any one with a K2-K4 E55 been to the track yet? Since the MB/K2 re-flash my car feels stronger than ever. Is it in my head? I tried to get to a track this weekend but no one had a test-n-tune.
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2006 CLS55 K4
Originally Posted by stevebez
Stiff1 - when did u take delivery of your CLS55? What build month was it?
I suspect it has the revised MB ECU software...
I suspect it has the revised MB ECU software...
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12' C63 P31, 06' Supercharged Range, 08' BMW 550i
Originally Posted by Stiff1
I got the car January 20th 06. I have never received a recall notice about anything, so I assume that it has the new software in it right now. I'll be talking to Kleemann tomorrow to see what else they are going to do if anything. I have already hooked up a boost guage upon their request and I am making 1 bar of boost (14.7 pounds). I just want to get some decent numbers at the track. If the dyno says 450hp but I can pull 120+ trap, I would be very happy.
#42
Originally Posted by vrus
Get a shop to drill & tap a 1/8 NPT fitting into 1 of your intake manifolds and hook up a boost gauge. Check and make sure your car is making the 13psi it should be. If it isnt you either have a boost leak (could be a torn hose).. If it is a torn hose, I would take the clamps off at both ends of the intake manifolds and the supercharger outlet and inspect the hoses to make sure there are no tears.
If there is no leak, check to make sure the supercharger belt isnt slipping.. I am going through some belt issues right now and can tell you it is an easy problem to have.
The boost gauge will give you a good indication if either of these 2 issues are plaguing your car.
If there is no leak, check to make sure the supercharger belt isnt slipping.. I am going through some belt issues right now and can tell you it is an easy problem to have.
The boost gauge will give you a good indication if either of these 2 issues are plaguing your car.
If you do have belt slip issues, one possible solution is to use Trackbite. That works well, save for the fact that I believe you have to re-apply such often.
One solution we use on our blown CTS-Vs when we have beltslip (with the 2.6" pulley) is to go back to the 2.8" pulley and change out the harmonic balancer to a larger one (from 7.25" to 8'). That allows the pulley driving the supercharger to have more "room" on the belt, but also have a higher belt speed.
#43
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2006 CLS55 K4
Originally Posted by dragonAMG
Stiff1 - how did you hookup your boost gauge? Which one did you go with?
Originally Posted by vrus
Get a shop to drill & tap a 1/8 NPT fitting into 1 of your intake manifolds and hook up a boost gauge. Check and make sure your car is making the 13psi it should be. If it isnt you either have a boost leak (could be a torn hose).. If it is a torn hose, I would take the clamps off at both ends of the intake manifolds and the supercharger outlet and inspect the hoses to make sure there are no tears.
If there is no leak, check to make sure the supercharger belt isnt slipping.. I am going through some belt issues right now and can tell you it is an easy problem to have.
The boost gauge will give you a good indication if either of these 2 issues are plaguing your car.
Get a shop to drill & tap a 1/8 NPT fitting into 1 of your intake manifolds and hook up a boost gauge. Check and make sure your car is making the 13psi it should be. If it isnt you either have a boost leak (could be a torn hose).. If it is a torn hose, I would take the clamps off at both ends of the intake manifolds and the supercharger outlet and inspect the hoses to make sure there are no tears.
If there is no leak, check to make sure the supercharger belt isnt slipping.. I am going through some belt issues right now and can tell you it is an easy problem to have.
The boost gauge will give you a good indication if either of these 2 issues are plaguing your car.
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'05 E55TK, '00 Brabus/Kleemann 5.8 GCab, '05 CLK DTM
I also have a "slow" K2 car. With DR, LSD, and 100 octane, my K2 E55T best et is 12.1 and best trap is 119mph. Cory tells me that my car should be pushing 120+mph and getting sub 12's easily.
I've since had the recall performed and done a "sneaky" ecu reset. The car feels a bit stronger but I've yet to take it back to the track or get it dynoed.
I've always been a big Kleemann supporter and I will remain loyal unless I find out that my car is still only as fast as some of the stock E55s out there.
There can't be that much of a discrepancy between a "slow" car and a "fast" car from the factory, can there?
I've since had the recall performed and done a "sneaky" ecu reset. The car feels a bit stronger but I've yet to take it back to the track or get it dynoed.
I've always been a big Kleemann supporter and I will remain loyal unless I find out that my car is still only as fast as some of the stock E55s out there.
There can't be that much of a discrepancy between a "slow" car and a "fast" car from the factory, can there?
Last edited by silversurfer; 07-04-2006 at 02:57 PM.
#45
Originally Posted by silversurfer
I also have a "slow" K2 car. With DR, LSD, and 100 octane, my K2 E55T best et is 12.1 and best trap is 119mph.
Originally Posted by silversurfer
There can't be that much of a discrepancy between a "slow" car and a "fast" car from the factory, can there?
I think you'll find that the performance differences for stock cars in the real world are due to dyno calibration, environmental parameters, driver error, and the adaptive ECU (a car that is driven aggressively seems to perform better than a car that is driven like a girly-man). This assumes that the ECU programming from the factory is the same for each car.
Unfortunately, most conditions are not controllable, so it's hard to compare performance numbers in a meaningful manner. And not all posters report the conditions that produced their numbers, which also makes it hard to compare.
If I were king of the world, I would mandate that all dynos would report raw rwhp, with no fudge factors to normalize to an expected value (like Kleemann does), no fudge factors to predict frictional losses (like a Mustang dyno), and no predetermined corrections for an established standard. It would also include temperature, barometric pressure, and relative humidity, with the option to display corrected values/curves. But what do I know - I'm just an opinionated, semi-senile, old fart with too much time on my hands and not enough to do.
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12' C63 P31, 06' Supercharged Range, 08' BMW 550i
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
- I'm just an opinionated, semi-senile, old fart with too much time on my hands and not enough to do.
#47
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Originally Posted by Grumpy666
If I were king of the world, I would mandate that all dynos would report raw rwhp, with no fudge factors to normalize to an expected value (like Kleemann does), no fudge factors to predict frictional losses (like a Mustang dyno), and no predetermined corrections for an established standard. It would also include temperature, barometric pressure, and relative humidity, with the option to display corrected values/curves.
I agree, dynos figures should be standardized across the board. I'm getting really tired of net, rear wheel, crank, blah, blah, blah.
If you were king of the world, I would have been the jester that got beheaded...
Thankfully, though, I'm still alive & kicking...
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07 S65
Has anyone heard if Milton re-dynoed his CLS K4 with the ECU remap? I know in the other thread about this he was heading back to the dyno shop with his K4 car to see if he could improve his numbers as well. What gives??? I haven't seen or heard of but just a few K4 cars and I haven't seen one of them hit the Kleemann HP gains?
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2006 CLS55 K4
Originally Posted by DJe55
Has anyone heard if Milton re-dynoed his CLS K4 with the ECU remap? I know in the other thread about this he was heading back to the dyno shop with his K4 car to see if he could improve his numbers as well. What gives??? I haven't seen or heard of but just a few K4 cars and I haven't seen one of them hit the Kleemann HP gains?
I am there with you guys, my car dynoed at 600 crank hp at kleemann, but I only get 435 at the rwhp at home, something is up. At the track I have trapped a 121.5 and have done 11.94, with 1.91 60' so I see some power on the track, and that's with stock rims & tires with 14k, half a tank of gas, and my first time on the track? I am sending the ECU back to Cory with the dyno sheet, so they can investigate more.
Not a very happy customer right now, I have had trouble with the install from the get go. We will see were it will end. I am also thinking about take it all off and leave it stock.
MG
Not a very happy customer right now, I have had trouble with the install from the get go. We will see were it will end. I am also thinking about take it all off and leave it stock.
MG
#50
Originally Posted by Stiff1
"There is nothing else we can do, it's just a low HP car." My dealer has been the one going back and forth with them because I got tired of having to relay all of Kleemanns messages to my dealer. I hope somebody can come up with something because Kleemann is giving up on trying to make more power for me.
If I didnt care about you and your car, or much less my own company, I wouldnt have flown to Chicago to look at your car, bring my DAS machine and flash programmer, writen numerous ECU files, make special pulleys in Denmark, talk with your dealer etc etc. I have gone the distance for you and your car, and will continue to do so.
The reason I talk directly to your dealer is because I asked for that line of communication since they are the ones trying to facilitate getting to the bottom of any possible OE issues with your car. Why bog you down with MB details you may or may not understand (Example: DAS process, test proceedure, etc).
Lets set afew things straight here as well in fairness to all.
By the time your dealer or you called me about a pre-tune dyno the car was nearly completed, a little late to do a baseline test. What I said was that it shouldnt matter too much because these cars all typically test at or near identical numbers. Ideally one always does a baseline test, in this case it was too late and suggesting to take it all apart to do one seemed a little out of bounds.
As I have always told you and your father, the items we supply are very straight forward. Meaning headers are headers, yours are like countless others in the field, your original boost pulley from us is identical to 100's sold, the camshafts are identical spec, throttle body and even your ECU software is the same as other cars which ar making far more power. If the combination of these parts, which has made more power on other cars does not make the power on your car what is the conclusion you draw?
When you offered to send the car to Colorado what I said is at that time it did not make sense to do that as i was willing to travel to examine the car in the environment it is used in, rather than Colorado Springs. Its far faster for me to fly to Chicago than trucking your car, the hope at the time was that it was something obvious or known that was the issue and it could be fixed on site. That didnt pan out, hence the special pulley to determine what is going on with your CLS.
The other point I have tried to make through your dealer and from me directly is at what point is it my responsibility to diagnose and fix your car when every item on it that we have provided is as it should be and this exact combi of parts and software makes great power on other cars? I can understand you feel slighted or disapointed about the result.
In any case, back to the matter at hand.
I am, and always have been, willing to do as much as possible to make you a happy camper. I cannot go to Illinois for an undetermined amount of time in an attempt to exorcize your car. I am satisfied that the hardware and software we have supplied you is withpout defect as it performs on other vehicles. That said you are free to have the car trucked to Colorado at your expense and we will go through the entire car front to back and return a car that makes more power.