vrus

Grumpy is the man!! And I for one am glad he is around to provide input!!

Thanks again!

BenzoBoi

Keep us posted...if the ball gets moving...I am willing to get a pair...

KompressorKev

i think a big cam on a pushrod v8 will have something a lower lsa like 110 or 112, making for big lope =)

Grumpy666

His question is wrt exhaust sound, which, like I mentioned above, is not impacted by LSA. Cams with LSA in the 110-112 range are considered middle-of-the-road. The big boys are in the 106-108 range, with some radical ones going even lower. But they have their own set of problems, like valve-to-piston clearance issues, and you can pretty much forget about computer control.

Mad TKD

Grummpy what do you think about using a larger intake vs the exhaust.

Some turbo apps have had good results with that. I am just wondering. Mostly it was done for spool. Yes i know we dont have the spool issue.

Grumpy666

By larger, I'm going to assume you mean longer duration. Some turbo cams use this technique to increase the speed of the gasses exiting the cylinder. This helps a large turbo to spool faster. It's not really needed for smaller, twin turbos. But, as with most things in life, there are no free lunches. By shortening the exhaust duration, you're reducing the amount of blowdown time (the amount of time from when the exhaust valve starts to open to when the piston starts to push up).

This effectively forces the piston to evacuate the cylinder w/o help. With a boosted engine, that's a lot of hot, expanding gasses to move. And at 6000 RPM, the engine has to do it 40 times per second. So you have this volume of gas being compressed and forced out a small opening. This causes pumping losses - it takes HP to compress the gas. Also, if the cylinder is not completely evacuated, there's residual pressure in the cylinder that can reduce the amount of fresh intake charge that can enter.

For the E55, it's a bad idea - it will easily cost 25 HP (probably more with the restrictive exhaust port). For a turbo car. it's a compromise - you're giving up total HP to bring the HP in sooner. Pick your poison.

Mad TKD

yes grump i meant longer duration.

Thats kinda what I thought. For a supercharged car it would not benefit since its not being driven off the exhaust gas. I have used this on my supra with great results in spool up and power under the curve. I didnt gain any power at all just increased when the power was on tap

vrus

Called my contact a couple of times but havent been able to get him on the phone.. I emailed him my info and a description of what I was after.. Waiting for response.

vrus

Ok.. Got some more info.. They are willing to do a custom grind cam for us and it will take a couple of weeks. They are going to recommend a cam profile based on the engine mods. Their stock profile that I posted is what they recommend for the stock cars and slightly modified.

I am going to take Grumpy's post and pass it along to him and see what his thoughts are... I will post what his recommended cam profile is for a modified car..

I think we should approach this in 2 different ways:

1) I will get his best price for 5 sets of the standard profile that he has quoted me.

2) I will get him to quote for 5 sets on a custom grind based on the post Grumpy made and I will tell him to model it for a car that has 80mm TB, intake boxes, ECU, pullies, headers , etc.. It will be for a fully modified car so it will be more aggressive.

Then, everyone can decide which way they want to go.

vrus

*** UPDATE ***

I received the quote back on the cam production as per the specs I listed above.

$2,200 for the PAIR!!!!!!!

Build and delivery will be end of August if we order now.

I havent been able to confirm the specs on the Kleemann cams to compare them against these, but this is 50% of the price!!!!

Ok.. Who's going to be the guinea pig (or pigs) ??

medici78

I think a big concern would be tuning. Also, how are these installed? Do they require shims?

vrus

Not sure what the impact on the tuning would be or if it is required.. I need some of the engine gurus to respond and see what they think.

As far as I know they are a direct drop in. No special install instructions were given to me.

2MANYCARS

Does the valvetrain needs to be upgraded? On few of my cars, they need to be upgraded when installing more aggressive cams.

Mad TKD

That would also be my question. Would you need Upgraded Valve Springs and retainers? I also have had to upgrade those on other cars too.

vrus

2 things:

1) I made a medium oversight when I posted the price.. That was the cost of the cams that I was quoted.. I forgot to add in the duties & taxes to get those suckers over here.. I'll have to figure out how much more that adds to the price to get them landed in Canada.

2) I was told that the cams were designed for the stock valvetrain.. They make other cams for other cars where they specifically tell you to change the springs, etc.. In this case, the stock valvetrain is sufficient.

e55 baller

Victor,

Any idea on how many hours of labor the install would be? Thanks!

vrus

Isaac,

I was told cam swaps are fairly simple procedure on these cars.. Not sure the exact time but I heard it was 3 - 4 hrs.

Intake manifolds come out, air boxes come out, coil packs come out, valve cover comes off.. re/re cams and then put it all back together.

MACHC5

Vic, Please keep me posted on this.

MachC5

PTE

Hi Guys;
if I remember right . The intake doesn't have to be removed. on either a N/A or F/I motor___PTE___

vrus

Well.. This is basically the end of the sourcing aspect. The custom cam grind that I am going to work on with these guys will be for a modified heads equipped car. For a stock to modified (without heads) this would be the cams of choice.

The only issue right now is whether they can be used without a retune. I am not sure about that part. I dont think so because I know Kleemann does an ECU update when they install cams...

Someone would have to verify this.

Thanks Patrick!! I know the tech told me it was a relatively easy job.. I just couldnt remember the exact parts that needed to be removed to get at them.

PTE

Mad TKD : it is not necessary on the AMG 5.5 N/A or F/I motors. But if you have a standard 500 MB motor (AE: E500 , S500 ) you will need to install springs . #1 To handle the Additional Lift & #2 . to raise the rpm limit of Valve float. I've buzzed my motor as hi as 6700 rpm. No valve float.
Victor: If I had to do it again , I go for the more aggressive grind. The mild one I installed gained me 16 hp increase and no loss of torque .well !! 1 Foot pound at peak___PTE___

vrus

I would normally agree with you and say go for the more aggressive one.. Problem is the tuning part.

I dont mind helping the members out and getting the cams for them, but, then what do they do to get the ECU updated? I dont think their tuners would be willing to help them tune a cam that came from someone other than their own shop.

I have a full Star Diagnostics machine (laptop & software), I have WIS, I have the EPC... I also have access to the hardware & software that will inject the ECU programs through the OBDII port and into the ECU's port itself.. What I dont have is the hardware/software to write the custom maps or the simulator software to verify the tune.

I've got feelers out all over trying to locate this equipment. If I get my hands on that part of it, I'll be able to write the custom tunes for people to match the modifications. Until then, we are at the mercy of those that have that.

My current ECU programmer guy is in Germany. He makes the files and emails them to us here. I then get my friend to load it into my ECU. Imagine trying to tune a car for a cam this way??? LOL...

PTE

On a N/A mtr with a Mass Air flow sensor. It will compensate for Minor changes.in air flow. An F/I mtr with Speed Density will need some tuning with a cam that has a more aggressive grind. I will stick with my moderate grind. I was quite please in what I gained. . Just ask the kid with the new SVT Cobra. With the Kenny Bell Blower .I put 2 car lengths on from the stop light here in Stuart, FL. Not only did I hurt his feelings Once , but 3 times.. We met at the local Pit stop. He couldn't believe I did not have a Kompressor!!!. He was all over my car. He said he could here it come up on the Cams. But the motor idled nice??
I told him he just ran into a well oiled machine. My Dyno guy stops by and blows my cover. He told the kid You got Guts man. I guess the white hair fooled him. 3 TIMES!!!

Mad TKD

thanks for the info PTE.

Vrus since you are going to have to have a ecu tune we think to get the benefits of the cams then a more aggressive cam profile would be best for me. I dont know about the others

FlyByNight

jody, off topic, but are you and avid weed smoker? Just curious... 420 obviously...



Loren