SLR engine photos for Vrus
08-09-2006, 09:29 PM
#51
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2003 E55 AMG
Yup.. It might actually be the SLR intercooler before it was painted. Your hunches are correct.. Those ports at the bottom match up with the intake ports of the stock manifolds.
The output pipes from the SC on the SLR are coming out the back parallel to the ground. On the E55 the output pipes from the SC's intercooler are at a 45dg angle.. That shouldnt be too bad to work from. Simple tube adapter should take care of that. I guess if you gutted the core of the intercooler at the bottom of the SC and just made flow tubes in there, it should work.
Still working on trying to pull some strings and see if I can physically get my hands on a part of that motor.
For comparison, here is a drawing depicting the components for the SLR motor top assemblies.
Notice the SC and output pipe are all together... No way to get that separately..
The output pipes from the SC on the SLR are coming out the back parallel to the ground. On the E55 the output pipes from the SC's intercooler are at a 45dg angle.. That shouldnt be too bad to work from. Simple tube adapter should take care of that. I guess if you gutted the core of the intercooler at the bottom of the SC and just made flow tubes in there, it should work.
Still working on trying to pull some strings and see if I can physically get my hands on a part of that motor.
For comparison, here is a drawing depicting the components for the SLR motor top assemblies.
Notice the SC and output pipe are all together... No way to get that separately..
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
That looks to be a bottom view of a passenger-side SLR intercooler. It looks like MB has incorporated the IC and intake manifold into one piece. Do the openings at the bottom of the unit look like they match up with the intake ports of the head?
It's hard to tell from the pics, but I think there are pipes exiting the S/C outlet and running under the S/C where the IC used to be that feed both ICs. The charge then flows over the cooling coils and directly into the head. Looks like a nice setup.
It's hard to tell from the pics, but I think there are pipes exiting the S/C outlet and running under the S/C where the IC used to be that feed both ICs. The charge then flows over the cooling coils and directly into the head. Looks like a nice setup.
08-09-2006, 11:59 PM
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OK, here's a thought - leave the stock IC alone. Build two SLR-style ICs and graft them onto the stock intake manifolds - IOW, cut the top off the intakes and weld the new ICs onto them. Join them to the stock IC outputs with appropriate tubing. This would minimize required fabrication. Plus, you have the option to use the stock IC as a pre-cooler. Daisy-chain the IC water lines, going to the new ICs first. Should be a lot cheaper.
08-10-2006, 12:17 AM
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2003 E55 AMG
Interesting... There are 3 issues I can think of:
1) The extra boost loss going across those other cores.. I know that it was said that they only lose 1 or 2 lbs of boost, but, add that to the 5 you lose with the stock setup and it could be a bit too much dont you think?
2) The fact that you would need 3 bloody IC pumps humming away.. The SLR uses 1 pump for each cooler.. Not sure if there is a power consideration that needs to be addressed to handle 3 pumps?? Or can you do away with the 3rd one and just use 2?
3) The IAT sensor is located at the output of the first cooler. It would need to be moved in order to take advantage of the extra efficiency of the secondary coolers.. Ok.. I guess this isnt so much a concern.. Should be easy enough to move it.
I cant think of any other reasons why it wouldnt work... Well, that takes the ballbark down into the $16,000 range.
1) The extra boost loss going across those other cores.. I know that it was said that they only lose 1 or 2 lbs of boost, but, add that to the 5 you lose with the stock setup and it could be a bit too much dont you think?
2) The fact that you would need 3 bloody IC pumps humming away.. The SLR uses 1 pump for each cooler.. Not sure if there is a power consideration that needs to be addressed to handle 3 pumps?? Or can you do away with the 3rd one and just use 2?
3) The IAT sensor is located at the output of the first cooler. It would need to be moved in order to take advantage of the extra efficiency of the secondary coolers.. Ok.. I guess this isnt so much a concern.. Should be easy enough to move it.
I cant think of any other reasons why it wouldnt work... Well, that takes the ballbark down into the $16,000 range.
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
OK, here's a thought - leave the stock IC alone. Build two SLR-style ICs and graft them onto the stock intake manifolds - IOW, cut the top off the intakes and weld the new ICs onto them. Join them to the stock IC outputs with appropriate tubing. This would minimize required fabrication. Plus, you have the option to use the stock IC as a pre-cooler. Daisy-chain the IC water lines, going to the new ICs first. Should be a lot cheaper.
08-10-2006, 02:29 AM
#54
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Yeah, no free lunches, but not major, either.
1) Not much you can do here but spin the screws a little faster.
2) If the SLR uses two Bosch pumps, one Johnson pump may be adequate.
3) You have to do this anyway, right?
1) Not much you can do here but spin the screws a little faster.
2) If the SLR uses two Bosch pumps, one Johnson pump may be adequate.
3) You have to do this anyway, right?
08-10-2006, 09:19 AM
#55
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The Fun Starts
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
That looks to be a bottom view of a passenger-side SLR intercooler. It looks like MB has incorporated the IC and intake manifold into one piece. Do the openings at the bottom of the unit look like they match up with the intake ports of the head?
It's hard to tell from the pics, but I think there are pipes exiting the S/C outlet and running under the S/C where the IC used to be that feed both ICs. The charge then flows over the cooling coils and directly into the head. Looks like a nice setup.
It's hard to tell from the pics, but I think there are pipes exiting the S/C outlet and running under the S/C where the IC used to be that feed both ICs. The charge then flows over the cooling coils and directly into the head. Looks like a nice setup.
If I can recover any lost pounds it will be a bonus and lot cheeper than 20k or so.
The plumbing is basic... a no brainer for me as I have the cooling system upgraded already. Just reattach the water in a Y config.
Also thinking of adding a dry-ice setup as well for the quarter mile.
We "must" **** off the stock I/C internals as there is to much resistance here. (bottle neck)
I will be chatting with an intercooler expert when I get back from Alice Springs where I'm flying the flag for us guys running against Lambos & M5's etc... over the next two weeks.
see link: http://aussieexotics.com/forum/
Cheers
08-10-2006, 09:36 AM
#56
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65 Coolers?
Oh YEAH... almost forgot, Victor, where did you get the blow apart SLR images? cause these are VERY handy for reverse engineering.
Also, notice part number 330 340 L&R gasket, I think we need to use the thick heat isolated version as well, you know... the one mentioned on another thread earlier.
I also looked a the SL65 inter-coolers today at the local benz steelership, part number A2750901714 (Left) and A2750901814 (right) maybe we can FrankinBenz say 4 of them together to keep the original benz theme going. Can you get some figs on these items Vic?
Yeah... similar aloy cast plumbing too....
A blow apart would be good as well mate. I don't ask for much do I...Thanks!
Also, notice part number 330 340 L&R gasket, I think we need to use the thick heat isolated version as well, you know... the one mentioned on another thread earlier.
I also looked a the SL65 inter-coolers today at the local benz steelership, part number A2750901714 (Left) and A2750901814 (right) maybe we can FrankinBenz say 4 of them together to keep the original benz theme going. Can you get some figs on these items Vic?
Yeah... similar aloy cast plumbing too....
A blow apart would be good as well mate. I don't ask for much do I...Thanks!
Originally Posted by vrus
08-10-2006, 09:41 AM
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2003 E55 AMG
True... Although, I dont have to #3 anymore now.. 
I found a way to make the water/meth injection work and still take advantage of the IAT sensor without having to relocate it...
See.. All that thought and work and now you want me to move it anyways... Geez..
How are you going to copy a set?? Dont tell me you have 1 side of the SLR intercoolers???? If so, you better not be holding out on me!! LOL..
As for the parts.. I sent an email requesting a quote.. When I hear back I'll post the results for you.
I found a way to make the water/meth injection work and still take advantage of the IAT sensor without having to relocate it...See.. All that thought and work and now you want me to move it anyways... Geez..
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
Yeah, no free lunches, but not major, either.
1) Not much you can do here but spin the screws a little faster.
2) If the SLR uses two Bosch pumps, one Johnson pump may be adequate.
3) You have to do this anyway, right?
1) Not much you can do here but spin the screws a little faster.
2) If the SLR uses two Bosch pumps, one Johnson pump may be adequate.
3) You have to do this anyway, right?
As for the parts.. I sent an email requesting a quote.. When I hear back I'll post the results for you.
Originally Posted by Finny
100% Correct Grumpy, and I'm going to copy a set for fun and see what happens.
08-10-2006, 10:24 AM
#58
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2003 E55 AMG
Finny,
Got a reply back on the email.. Are you sitting down???
Retail price on EACH side is: $1234CDN.. My price for EACH side is $1150CDN..
So, for $2300 CDN I can get those 2 intercoolers... I dont think it is a cost effective way to do it personally..
I think if we are going to do something, we call up Spearco, tell them the dimensions, the fin arrangement,etc, and get them to custom make us a set.. I am sure it will be at least half the cost.
Got a reply back on the email.. Are you sitting down???
Retail price on EACH side is: $1234CDN.. My price for EACH side is $1150CDN..
So, for $2300 CDN I can get those 2 intercoolers... I dont think it is a cost effective way to do it personally..
I think if we are going to do something, we call up Spearco, tell them the dimensions, the fin arrangement,etc, and get them to custom make us a set.. I am sure it will be at least half the cost.
08-10-2006, 10:26 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by vrus
How are you going to copy a set?? Dont tell me you have 1 side of the SLR intercoolers???? If so, you better not be holding out on me!! LOL..
As for the parts.. I sent an email requesting a quote.. When I hear back I'll post the results for you.
As for the parts.. I sent an email requesting a quote.. When I hear back I'll post the results for you.
No... I'm not holding out.. The photos say it all. A horizontal core is welded into a hollow cast. The trick here is... how efficient is the core and what type?
This inter-cooler dude I met recently who knows all the math and lingo had seen the photos and reckons that it's no challenge. We will experiment with three core types... as the use of different water pressures/flow affect which cores to use... eF me I'll let them figure it out.
We can interface the new i/c with the old air inlet returns with a bit of creative plumbing. A bit of cut and shut. The 80mm will kick in here.
When I get back from Alice I'll start the project and post the progress.
08-10-2006, 10:39 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by vrus
Finny,
Got a reply back on the email.. Are you sitting down???
Retail price on EACH side is: $1234CDN.. My price for EACH side is $1150CDN..
So, for $2300 CDN I can get those 2 intercoolers... I dont think it is a cost effective way to do it personally..
Got a reply back on the email.. Are you sitting down???
Retail price on EACH side is: $1234CDN.. My price for EACH side is $1150CDN..
So, for $2300 CDN I can get those 2 intercoolers... I dont think it is a cost effective way to do it personally..
Originally Posted by vrus
I think if we are going to do something, we call up Spearco, tell them the dimensions, the fin arrangement,etc, and get them to custom make us a set.. I am sure it will be at least half the cost.
I think there is a lot more to it than we think. I'm still trying to absorb the data from the i/c dude. If we let this guy do the r&d, I'll then get some theory data to post.
08-10-2006, 10:42 AM
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2003 E55 AMG
I meant instead of starting off with the SL65 intercoolers (which have the end tanks and everything already welded on) and having to weld on our intake manifolds to them, it would probably be half the cost to have Spearco make us a set of cores and just weld those into our intake manifolds.
Originally Posted by Finny
Half the cost to 65 or SLR?
I think there is a lot more to it than we think. I'm still trying to absorb the data from the i/c dude. If we let this guy do the r&d, I'll then get some theory data to post.
I think there is a lot more to it than we think. I'm still trying to absorb the data from the i/c dude. If we let this guy do the r&d, I'll then get some theory data to post.
08-10-2006, 10:47 AM
#62
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Originally Posted by vrus
I meant instead of starting off with the SL65 intercoolers (which have the end tanks and everything already welded on) and having to weld on our intake manifolds to them, it would probably be half the cost to have Spearco make us a set of cores and just weld those into our intake manifolds.
08-10-2006, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Finny
We "must" **** off the stock I/C internals as there is to much resistance here. (bottle neck)
Victor, did you get a chance to measure your stock crank pulley? If it's the same size as the SLR unit, the higher boost level of the SLR might be attributed to the more efficient ICs.
08-10-2006, 03:44 PM
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You know.. I completely forgot.. I was so occupied with finishing exhaust project, working on TB and this airbox stuff that it slipped my mind...
Will get measurement when I get home tonight.. My stock crank pulley is sitting in a box in the garage somewhere.
Will get measurement when I get home tonight.. My stock crank pulley is sitting in a box in the garage somewhere.
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
Victor, did you get a chance to measure your stock crank pulley? If it's the same size as the SLR unit, the higher boost level of the SLR might be attributed to the more efficient ICs.
08-10-2006, 06:10 PM
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STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
here is a dyno graph for the SLR motor:
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...slip-9607.html
low on torque when compared to the 65 motors making similar HP...
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...slip-9607.html
low on torque when compared to the 65 motors making similar HP...
08-10-2006, 10:14 PM
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2003 CL55 Kompressor Horizon Blue Metallic
Originally Posted by vrus
You know.. I completely forgot.. I was so occupied with finishing exhaust project, working on TB and this airbox stuff that it slipped my mind...
Will get measurement when I get home tonight.. My stock crank pulley is sitting in a box in the garage somewhere.
Will get measurement when I get home tonight.. My stock crank pulley is sitting in a box in the garage somewhere.
08-10-2006, 10:54 PM
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Yeah.. That's possible.. The part # for the supercharger is different but I dont know what has changed. The Crank pulley is also different Part # but the SC clutch & pulley is definitely the same.
Originally Posted by mclarenm8d
Guys, one thing I noticed when looking at the schematics back-to-back ... what I believe is the gear drive on the front is definitely different on the SLR. Maybe the pulleys are the same, but the SC is being spun faster internally (???).
10-14-2008, 10:28 AM
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SL600
Jeeez...are those the real headers for that motor when installed in the car?
Those sure look to be ridiculously constrictive. To begin with, they're tiny, and on top of that there are no less than TWO separate 90-degree bends within the span of 6 inches.
There has to be a better way to build that mousetrap.
Those sure look to be ridiculously constrictive. To begin with, they're tiny, and on top of that there are no less than TWO separate 90-degree bends within the span of 6 inches.
There has to be a better way to build that mousetrap.
10-15-2008, 04:26 AM
#73
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Jeeez...are those the real headers for that motor when installed in the car?
Those sure look to be ridiculously constrictive. To begin with, they're tiny, and on top of that there are no less than TWO separate 90-degree bends within the span of 6 inches.
There has to be a better way to build that mousetrap.
Those sure look to be ridiculously constrictive. To begin with, they're tiny, and on top of that there are no less than TWO separate 90-degree bends within the span of 6 inches.
There has to be a better way to build that mousetrap.
