sly55

I see VRUS mentioned the Klee cams are ~same deal as SLR. So why are ppl still so keen to go SLR cams? is it only coz the SLR ones are cheaper?!

but gee those Klee's, over 4grand US for a set of cams!!!! :o

But being a plug and play deal, wouldnt most ppl feel better paying for that peace of mind?!

Mad TKD

well Vrus what the hell is taking you so long??

vrus

I think it all boils down to "Bang for Buck".

$4,400 for 30rwhp is a tall order... (Kleemann really only says they make 17rwhp - 20rwhp from what I remember)

$2,000 makes the whole thing much more appealing.

Approx $20,000 in R&D money... that's all..

Kens-E55

Add another set of words:

3.06 Gears just like SLR - Problem is ....I'm told they don't fit!!

But boy would it PULL!!!!!

vrus

hehehe.. That's because you are looking in the wrong place for those 3.06 gears..

Those gears are found in another car other than the SLR and that's where you should be looking..

BTW.. I will have 3.06 gears in my car once the cams are changed.

Right now with the current characteristics of the car, putting gears in just results in more tirespin.. Too much torque already as it is, so lower gears will just make things worse... BUT.. once the cams go in and shift the power band up higher, then the 3.06 gears will help put the car into its powerband quicker.

Grumpy666

If I'm understanding what you're saying here, you have this backwards. Camshafts in these engines regulate air flow. Fuel is fixed, based on ECU fuel tables. The addition of longer duration cams will increase airflow. Unless the speed density system senses the increased airflow and maps to a different fuel table, the A/F mixture should become leaner. He really needs to get a dyno plot that shows the A/F ratio to see if his fuel tables need to be edited.

vrus

Maybe the tech told it to me backwards or I just heard it backwards and the dyslexia is setting in..

I could have sworn I was told the car would run a little rich after the cams were installed????

I agree.. dyno plot is the way to be sure.

zdkdeeier493

Maybe the person who told you that assumed you meant shorter duration cams. Duno why he would think that tho

Grumpy666

While what you've stated here is accurate, you need to carefully evaluate your setup before you install lower gears just based on this premise. Two considerations come to mind:

1) If your current setup spins the tires too much because of the massive torque, then moving the torque band higher with cams may cause the tires to spin just the right amount. Installing lower gears may put you back into the spin-too-much scenario.

2) What is your engine RPM going through the traps? Ideally, you want it to be just past your power peak, but before your shift point. If installing lower rearend gears causes you to shift to a higher transmission gear just before the traps, you may not see much ET benefit.

Food for thought.

Kens-E55

With 3.06 gears//295/19 rear tires//7000rpm shift point (SLR cams)
the shift ponits as follows:

1-2 is at 49 mph
2-3 is at 77 mph
3-4 is at 128 mph

Hence the 0-60 with good traction would be stellar &
the 1/4 mile trap time and speed should be STRONG!!!
(maybe say 11.5 @ 125 on street tires)(I know......speculation )

NTL - It would pull thru the gears hard on everyday street driving!!

Kens-E55

Not so fast-"Gwasshoppa" - Give me some credit "Danielson"

Actually the '02 and older w210 platform E55 had the 3.06 gears but I was told they were an entirely different rear pumpkin altogether

Any ideas they may actually fit??

Or do I need to research other cars???

vrus

Ken,

Sorry buddy.. Just messing around with you..

I was talking to a friend up here who said that this has been done before and I started to do the research on it but then stopped to finish off this TB stuff.

He mentioned that the E500 platform had the gears I was looking for.

I cant remember if it was 3.06 or 3.07. I dont know how doable it is, but, I have the axle and gear blow out diagrams at home on my desk somewhere.. Just another item on the list that I have to get to.

I was planning on revisiting once the cams were ready to go in.

But, like Grumpy said, we need to make sure it doesnt end up being counter-productive.


True... Based on what Ken posted, it looks like it might be a good solution.. Any comments on his post?

Grumpy666

If his calculations are correct, you should be in the mid part of 3rd gear power band. This will give you some headroom for future mods. I'm not sure how he arrived at the 1/4-mile figures, but I would expect about 0.1-0.2 sec ET decrease at the most. I would not, however, expect any increase in trap speed - in fact, it could go down.

WayneE

You may actually slow down by forcing a shift before the traps. I have personally experienced situations where riding the limiter in a lower gear, just before the traps, results in a better ET (but loss of MPH) than shifting to the next higher gear. Making the shift gave me more MPH, but I went slower. Unless you drive a Supra, that's moving backwards

In most cars you want to go through the traps in your gear closest to 1:1 ratio, avoiding any overdrive gears.

WayneE

When calculating max speed in each gear and relating it to trap speed, remember that your trap speed is averaged over the last 66ft when running at the drag strip. Therefore, if you are limited to 128mph in 3rd gear, you may only be able to trap around 125-126. You're actually traveling faster than your trap speed when you finish the 1/4 mile.

vrus

We'll start a new thread to talk about gears...

Sorry Jim for pulling this off-topic...

blackbenzz

Interesting. I learn something new everyday

Grumpy666

During a 1/4-mile blast, the closer the car is to the finish line, the slower it is accelerating. At 128 mph, it takes 0.176 seconds to travel that last 33 feet (the location of the car based on the reported trap speed). Yeah, the actual trap speed will be higher, but at 128 mph with less than 0.2 sec to accelerate further, it will only be measureable with digital timers. I doubt that the difference would appear on the left side of the decimal point of the trap speed.

WayneE

Grumpy, someone smarter than me can do the calculations, but I've been in the driver's seat and had it happen to me. It does make a difference when calculating gearing and tire height.

Grumpy666

It doesn't require calculations - it requires measurements. Prior to the conversion, the NHRA compared the two timing setups. Here's a quote from Steve Gibbs, long-time NHRA official:

"We ran a series of tests utilizing both trap configurations simultaneously, and found that there was about a 2 mph difference (TF & FC) for those cars going the full 1386 ft."

TF & FC refer to Top Fuel & Funny Car. These cars were putting out 5000-6000 HP (at the time) and had the beans to accelerate on the top end. They only showed a 2 mph delta. It seems reasonable to me that a car with only 10% of their power will produce 10% of their result. Your driver's seat must be very sensitive.

Here's the link to the article containing the quote above:

http://www.wediditforlove.com/trapspeeds.html

It's interesting to note that some of the drivers' trap speeds increased with the new setup, since they were no longer shutting down prior to tripping the second timer.

WayneE

I wasn't going by my butt-dyno, I was going by timeslips. As mentioned above, when I grabbed a gear just before the traps, I could lose several MPH. The same with gearing changes. I couldn't gear the car exactly to my trap speed, I needed a little bit of fluff to get me through without hitting the limiter in 4th.

rflow306

That is correct, holding the crossing gear longer will always result in a better et, period. Even when you stay in it to red-line.

Finny

$4,400 for two bump sticks? Kleemann must of gold-plated them...

$1k each or so is still high but acceptable.

Victor, can you please put me down for a set mate. Tar !

vrus

Some more info back from Germany...

Cam Sensor is the same part on the SLR as it is on the E55 so no point in changing that.

Cam Gear is DIFFERENT. Retail price is $80 so no biggie to add that to the list.

The only problem is that $955 seems to be the best price which came from JodyE55Rocket... 20% off is all they are willing to do. The main problem is that I cant get them for that.. Up here I get quoted everything in Canadian $$ and because of the dollar taking a ****-kicking, even with 20% off my price ends up being higher than the $955 that Jody can get it for down there.

Once I factor in the local taxes I have to pay we are at $1000 each.

They were already asking me all sorts of questions like why do I need 5 sets of SLR cams... LOL.. I am sure those guys at AMG are scratching their heads trying to figure out what the hell I am up to over here...

Try coming up with an answer to that question, when, all of Canada probably received less than 5 SLRs and here I am in Toronto asking for 5 of the cams..

Jody: Talk to your contact and see if he has the ability to order 5 sets of cams from Germany.. see what they tell him.

----------------------------------------------

Wayne,

Like a few other people on the board, I already added your names under mine... I figured you would want a set...

Jakpro1

You sure on that V?? They brought out an SLR cam sensor and we tried it.

It was a black type of plastic while ours was metal on the end. We couldn't mill the SLR one, so we ground down the E55 sensor.

On the cam gear, they were getting, "not sourced out of Germany" messages on ordering. If you can snag one for me, please order it ASAP and I will pay for all charges with shipping.

My mechanic wants to have regular checkups now just to see how things are going and if we need to swap the gears, we will do it.

It's like you have this black market AMG parts underground going on.

How are you doing it? I picture these back alley meetings with men in trenchcoats in the darkness over in Europe. "You got the cam gear" "Yeah, I got it....you got the suitcase"