amg55

The current article on the new SL55 (Motor Trend? Car/Driver?) reports a 0-60 time of 4.5 sec's.
Given the SUV-like weight of the SL relative to the the W211, will the E55 be faster? Will the 15-20 hp deficit in the E55 leave it behind the SL55 despite the markedly greater curb weight of the SL55?
I recall reports from last year stating that the SL55 engine was tweaked to raise hp to 500 when preliminary tests (both cars using similarly tuned engine, I assume) showed that the E55 outran the SL55 from 0-60.
The SL55 weighs about 500 lbs more than the E55, I believe.

E55 KEV

The W210 E55 has always been a tad faster than the normally aspirated CL55 & the S55 due to their heavier weights.

The W211 E55 should be quicker than the SL55 and the new supercharged CL55 & S55.

Alesi555

The new E55 will NOT be faster than the SL55. Due to the weight advantage of the E55 as well as a lower coefficient of drag in preliminary testing the E55 did prove to be faster than the SL55. MB could not allow this as the SL is their flagship. The solution? Retune the SL55 engine so that is produces 496HP and leave the E55 producing 469HP. Although the E55 will come with the identical engine to the SL55 it will be tuned to produce less HP. Hope this clears up any confusion.

AndrewEclipse

Finding those extra 35-40 horses out of that engine is going to be a breeeeze. The E55 is going to be faster after very minor tuning.

Alesi555

True enough!! I was referring to the stock versions. An experienced, capable aftermarket tuner will easily be able to massage much more power from the engine. But as far as the official MB statements go, the fastest MB production car is the SL55 and that is exactly as they want it. You also must remember that the second you begin fooling around with the engine or its management systems you are placing a very dangerous bet on having your warranty voided by MB.

KenE55

I know the SL55 has a slightly higher rated HP, but I doubt that is real... it makes no sense for AMG to make two nearly identical engines with slightly different amounts of HP. That defeats the whole economy of scale thing that is the reason they put the same engine in different cars.

I think the 2002 E55 also was rated slightly lower than the SL55.

This rating nonsense is simply for marketing reasons... people plunking down $120,000 don't want to think they are second best... even if they are!

Watch the 0-60 numbers the car mags get when the E55k hits the streets. I'll bet it's 0.2 sec quicker than the SL55.

E55 KEV

I speculate that the engines will be the same for all the supercharged cars, ie E55, CL55, S55 & SL55. That E55 engine may only lose some HP on 'paper' from Marketing or perhaps the 'chip' or engine management software will be softened. Just a guess.

For the newer members. The advertising on the US E55 from 1999-2002 always stated 349 HP and for 2002 the S55 and CL55 rated 355 HP. As soon as I opened my owners manual it stated 355 HP - and that is a US SAE rating and not the Euro DIN rating.

Alesi555

With all due respect Ken, all that is required to increase the HP is a minor adjustment done to the engine management module vis the Star Diagnosis machine. To illustrate this, many of the European SL55's were recalled to the dealer to increase the HP from 463 to 496. The economies of scale you speak of are in fact realised from the casting of the identical engine blocks, supercharger etc, minor software mutations will do nothing to influence the economy of scale. As for your quote regarding magazines testing the E55 and it being .2 quicker I would tend to disagree, MB has made it quite clear that the SL55 will be faster and I am sure this will be shown in the magazine road tests. Further, I agree this is all marketing, that is the root of this issue. The SL is the flagship of Mercedes-Benz, the halo effect it has on the brand is imperative to MB's image among the discriminating consumer. The SL55 will be the fastest MB production car even after the introduction of the E55. The numbers will reflect this even in supposedly "impartial" magazines.

KenE55

With all due respect Alesi555, Why on earth would MB intentionally slow down the E55, with the M5 and RS6 and who knows what else breathing down their necks?

Putting the lower HP on paper only solves both problems! The more expensive SL55 still appears to give you more for your money, the E55 still smokes it, just like before. The W210 E55 is faster than the old SL55, that didn't bother MB before, why should it now?

Be sure and heat up a nice slice of humble pie for when the real numbers are posted!

I'm sure E55 KEV would agree!!

Alesi555

I will heat up that humble pie about the same time you show me one of these old SL55's you so eloquently refer to.


As far as your competition argument goes, the direct competitor for the E55, the BMW M5, will soon be released with a V10 beast that will make it quicker than both the E55 and the SL55. MB cannot control what competitors do but they do have full control over what happens in their stable and in their stable the fastest thoroughbred will be the SL55. They never "slowed down" the E55 they merely "sped up" the SL55. I don't understand where the SL55 envy comes from, but marketing or not, when people ask what is the fastest production Mercedes-Benz everyone from Mr Schremp through to the car washer at your local dealership will answer: the SL55.

Alesi555

Moreover Ken, I feel very few SL55 owners will think they are "second best". They plunk down $120,000 and get both a coupe and convertible that looks stunning and has the go to accompany the show. The SL55 truly is one of the most incredible vehicles of our time and even if the E55 matches its performance figures (which it won't) in a cruise with the SL55, CL55 and E55, the E55 firmly takes it place behind the first two masterpieces. Very few SL55 customers will feel "second best" as they pull up beside a E55 owner on warm summer night with the roof down and promptly proceed to out accelerate the E55 as well. The only good news is that nice chrome quad exhaust should do an excellent job of heating up that humble pie you are about to eat!! The E55 will prove to be a fantastic automobile but it will never be at the level of the SL55.

KenE55

Show you one? How about all of them?

I believe all stock non-supercharged SL55's are slower than the same model year E55's. I don't have an old car magazine test report handy, but I'm sure that's the case.

It's physics, not envy! The E55 is faster because it is lighter and has better aerodynamics.

I don't think that will change when both support the supercharged engines, but I'm willing to put this debate on hold until both have been tested by a reputable source, like Car and Driver.

Peace!

stephens

I agree with E55 Kev on this one. It has been previously quoted both on this board and in the press that there were in fact no changes to the SL55 to meet the increased outputs quoted. German owners have been quoted as receiving new registration papers, which list power outputs, on early release models.
0-100Kmh is quoted at 4.7sec for both E55 and SL55 on the AMG website.
I just worked out what they have done is change the diff ratio on the E55 to 2.65 to 1 from 2.82. The SL55 keeps the 2.82 to 1 ratio. So the performance nobbling may just be a longer final drive ratio, not engine tinkering.

stephens

I just spoke to my dealer to see if i can special order with the old rear axle ratio. Will keep you posted if this is possible.

amg55

I asked the original question with my own bias which is the same as E55Kev's.
MB needs to be able to market and proclaim the SL55 as the 'fastest, most powerful MB'.
But in reality, I suspect the car mags will report virtually identical 0-60 times for the SL55 and E55, perhaps slightly faster for the E55, ranging from 4.4-4.7 sec's depending on who is coordinating the testing.
I can't see any mechanical or physical reason why the E55 should be slower, since I don't believe that any minor chip massaging or alteration in d ratios will offset the weight advantage the E55 holds.

As for the humble pie, Ken will need to let us know whether he likes his heated or room temp since I don't think he'll be able to offer up any data on the 'old SL55' (since there is/was no such beast).

Alesi555

AMG55,

You beat me to it!! The current SL55 is the first AMG "massaged" SL ever. Previously only the SL500 and SL600 were offered. Nonetheless, both cars (E55 and SL55) are fabulous cars that provide unparalleled performance and comfort. I suppose the E55 has a slight advantage in that you can tell your wife and kids to buckle up and then humiliate the guy in the Viper beside you!!
Anyway, we will see what happens when the cars come out, but happy motoring to all!!

Alesi555

As an aside guys, what do you think of the findings in the C32 forum that on the dyno each AMG engine is producing a different HP output, with the range being close to 30HP. I found this quite interesting, I had always assumed some variation was natural but 30HP seems quite high indeed. Is it possible that two AMG powered vehicle owners could line up in identical cars and one would have a 30HP advantage simply due to manufacturing variables? Thoughts?

KenE55

Hi Alesi555 and others,

Sorry it took me so long to reply. It took almost forever to finish eating that entire humble pie all by myself. Yeah, I know, there was no previous SL55. I was confused by the numerous magazine articles and road tests on the CL55! Darn these similar names! OK I said it my goof!!

I always thought of the CL55 as the "flagship", but I suppose there is a flagship coupe, convertible, sedan, SUV, roadster, etc..
The CL55 has essentially the same engine as the E55, but has a (slightly) higher rated hp, which I believe is little more than marketing fluff. The E55 is faster than the CL55, and this is mostly because of the higher weight the CL55 is carrying.

The SL55 is a fantastic car, like all MB-AMG offerings. So I was never knocking it.. but I'll bet the heavier SL55 will be slightly slower than the E55 in both the 0-60 and the slalom.

MarcusBenz

I think MBUSA has done a wonderful thing, creating the controversy of which car will be faster. Just take and moment and look at what some numbers on a piece of paper can do the marketing of the cars. I think MB has done this on purpose to create excitement in the new cars and get people to get out the fat wallets and anty up to the table for these fabulous cars!!! On another note, any SL55 owner who thinks he is "2nd Best" because the car may or may not be 2 tenths of a second slower, should have his or her head examined. That time can be made up in the person who is navigating the car!!!

stephens

The SL55 is highly unlikely to beat the E55 in slalom due to the excess weight. However it may be as quick/slighly quicker than the E55 due to the different rear axle ratios that are being used. At the end of the day we are going to have to ait for independent tests to get the real anwer on this one.

Ted Baldwin

...................I think the attempt to Keep the SL55 the fastest car in MB line up also partly explains why MB chose not to extent its 493HP engine to the CLK55.


Ted.

Mr Janne

AMG has been around since 1967, why wouldn´t they have touched an SL before the R230? There have been a lot of models before the current SL55. The old SL55, yes it does exist, based on the R129-platform came out in 1999 with the same engine as in the E55 producing 354 bhp and 530 NM of torque. Around the same time AMG introduced the SL73 with a 525 bhp 7,3 litre V12 engine. It´s pretty torquey too, 750 NM. And before that there was the SL60 and so on.

marauder

It's almost guaranteed that the SL55 will be faster than the E55, whether actually out on the street or in the numbers alone. Marketing is what drives every major car company these days and those folks will simply not allow the car to be faster, at least on paper. It will be likely the very same engine with the same forced induction system, simply detuned electronically.

And regarding slalom times, here are the wheelbases for the two cars at hand:
SL500: 100.8 in
E500: 112.4 in

That's a substantial difference to consider.

KenE55

I just don't buy that argument. The 2002 E55 is faster than both the 2002 CL55 and the 2002 S55, and these are both far more expensive cars. I think MB will attempt to make every car the best it can in it's respective segment.

I would never consider an SL55 over an E55, I want the back seat for friends and family. I don't like the noise and wind and weight of a convertible, no matter how slick it is. Similar arguments drive everyone to choose the model that suits them best... that's why there are so many models. It makes no sense to reduce the performance of one model to make another model look better in comparison!

I can't imagine MB will intentionally cripple the E55 to make the SL55 look better. Why have an E55 at all if they thought that way?

I believe the E55 will have a nearly identical engine spec to the SL55, and because of the substantial weight advantage the E55 will be quicker than the SL55.

The only thing the SL55 will be able to do faster than the E55 will be to give you skin cancer.

AndrewEclipse

Hmmm. O.........................K. ???