DIY Heat Exchanger Prep
01-21-2011, 10:52 AM
#27
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Evo VIII/E55 AMG
Help me follow what the benifits are to adding another resevoir? I have an upgraded H/E and Pump already. Is adding the resevoir something that will benifit my setup??
01-26-2011, 02:59 PM
#28
Super Member
As for the follow up, I'll leave it for someone that's already done it. But my .02 would be that if it's not broke, don't fix it. Are you experiencing heatsoak?
01-26-2011, 05:12 PM
#31
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2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
now when you split the system you isolate the the 2 systems so the hot coolant from the engine does not mix with the warm coolant from the h/e.
depending on the size of the reservoir you can increase total capacity, but that is hard to do unless you have a rear tank since there is limited space in the egine bay.
in terms of money it costs about 20 to 30 to split the system which includes a bmw ps reservoir and all the block off and t fitting and clamps.
when do you this it is a good idea to wire the pump so it is running all the time.
01-26-2011, 05:19 PM
#32
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Evo VIII/E55 AMG
in the stock form the engine coolant mixes with the coolant running through the h/e cooling system.
now when you split the system you isolate the the 2 systems so the hot coolant from the engine does not mix with the warm coolant from the h/e.
depending on the size of the reservoir you can increase total capacity, but that is hard to do unless you have a rear tank since there is limited space in the egine bay.
in terms of money it costs about 20 to 30 to split the system which includes a bmw ps reservoir and all the block off and t fitting and clamps.
when do you this it is a good idea to wire the pump so it is running all the time.
now when you split the system you isolate the the 2 systems so the hot coolant from the engine does not mix with the warm coolant from the h/e.
depending on the size of the reservoir you can increase total capacity, but that is hard to do unless you have a rear tank since there is limited space in the egine bay.
in terms of money it costs about 20 to 30 to split the system which includes a bmw ps reservoir and all the block off and t fitting and clamps.
when do you this it is a good idea to wire the pump so it is running all the time.
01-26-2011, 05:31 PM
#35
Super Member
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-3...Q5fAccessories
01-26-2011, 05:53 PM
#37
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2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
to get a constant 12v switched power you have to tap into a the thick reddish orange wire in the ecu box. the wire is located all the way at the back of the ecu box.
01-26-2011, 06:08 PM
#38
Member
For obvious reasons - TOTALLY wrong!
01-26-2011, 06:53 PM
#41
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08 ML350, 2011 E550 Cab
I also modded the i/c circuit on my SL55 as follows...
1-Added a VERY large 2nd Heat Exchanger up front (26x7x2") and all the plumbing needed.
2-Attached (2) 6" fans to the backside of the new large heat exchanger up front that are controlled by a switch hidden in the ashtray. It would take longer for the IAT's to drop once i got off the highway after a long pull, so i installed the fans. They help tremendously while i am sitting at redlights and moving slowly. They don't reduce the overall temp of the i/c circuit more than if i didn't have them, but they absolutely do reduce the recovery time it takes for the temps to drop back down after they rise from a WOT pull...
3-Added a Johnson CM30 pump. (My stock pump crapped out on me and started my cooling revolution ).
4- I wired the pump to run when the car runs so it is constantly circulating water.
5- I Separated the Cooling system from the intercooler circuit and installed a small reservoir to hold my IC water. This really helped to keep IAT's down. It absolutely works. It keeps 200F degree coolant away from my 100F degree intercooler system. On the SL55, there is a bleed hose for the intercooler circuit that returns air and some coolant to the original engine coolant reservoir (This is not on the E-class). When I 1st separated the systems, i didn't cap this return line, and after i ran the car, i noticed i had coolant boiling out of my NEW (BMW) I/C reservoir
(supposed to be a 100F system and it was boiling)!!!
Furthermore, after i capped this line and FULLY separated the systems, my scangauge II showed much lower IATs. It was easy to do. Recovery time also decreased with this mod because hot engine coolant isn't fed into the system while driving (The only energy of heat added to the system is from the intercooler >THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE). I used the BMW power steering reservoir, fabricated a bracket for it, bought some hose clamps, and installed a couple of splices. It was easy to do.
These cars should have come with a separate reservoir from the factory. The separated circuit is a better and more efficient setup.. I understand people saying that the systems don't mix, but in fact they somewhat do, and when you lower the i/c circuit's temp significantly, the amount of mixing increases significantly as well. Try and run a 100 degree system linked to a 200+ degree F system and see what happens. The heat energy will transfer from high to low, and you will have an i/c circuit that is much warmer than if you split the systems. Try it, i have and KNOW it works...
6-Lastly, I installed a PTE thermostat to keep engine temps LOW.
I gotta say so far i LOVE the car.
I had a bad IC pump and really didn't know it until i started paying attention (the car ran out of power on HOT days). Then when i installed my ScanGauge II i was watching my IAT's in the high 190's i knew immediately...
When it comes to modifying the intercooler circuit, aside from increasing the flow, the best gains are made from increasing the capacity of intercooler circuit's coolant, as well as increasing the surface area of your heat exchanger. By putting a large second heat exchanger, I increased the capacity of intercooler coolant and the surface area for heat exchange at the same time.
This way it takes much longer to heat soak your setup. And as we all know, HEAT SOAK IS THE ENEMY!!
Basically, i did alot of research on the forums, and found ALOT of different ideas for cooling mods, and when i found i had problems, i incorporated all the ideas into my car (2nd heat exchanger/separated circuits/johnson CM30 pump/ pump wired to run all the time/the fans(my own idea).
I ordered everything i needed, and fabricated what i had to. I still have the stock oil cooler in place, and was actually able to fit the heat exchanger and the two 6" fans in front of it. It is tight, but it all fits, and works perfectly. When i turn on my fans, i feel hot air blowing out of the vents in the engine underpan where the oil cooler air is vented.
I drastically increased the performance of my car.
I don't know if i will ever do a pulley setup and a tune, but if i wanted to, i would certainly be setup for the extra heat problems that are associated with those mods.
I am happy to report that with my new IC circuit cooling mods i see IAT's that are consistently 21-23 degrees F above ambient in the summer, and 10 degrees F above ambient in the winter.
My cooling mods have DEFINATELY made this car come alive.
Occasionally on a hot day (80-85) at WOT the temps climb to 125F but almost instantly go back down to 109F and then in about 10seconds are back to around 100F.
This is MUCH improved over the IATs i had before that were shutting off the supercharger and retarding the timing... This info is based on my own real time personal experience. The mods are cheap. Try them, or don't..
1-Added a VERY large 2nd Heat Exchanger up front (26x7x2") and all the plumbing needed.
2-Attached (2) 6" fans to the backside of the new large heat exchanger up front that are controlled by a switch hidden in the ashtray. It would take longer for the IAT's to drop once i got off the highway after a long pull, so i installed the fans. They help tremendously while i am sitting at redlights and moving slowly. They don't reduce the overall temp of the i/c circuit more than if i didn't have them, but they absolutely do reduce the recovery time it takes for the temps to drop back down after they rise from a WOT pull...
3-Added a Johnson CM30 pump. (My stock pump crapped out on me and started my cooling revolution
).4- I wired the pump to run when the car runs so it is constantly circulating water.
5- I Separated the Cooling system from the intercooler circuit and installed a small reservoir to hold my IC water. This really helped to keep IAT's down. It absolutely works. It keeps 200F degree coolant away from my 100F degree intercooler system. On the SL55, there is a bleed hose for the intercooler circuit that returns air and some coolant to the original engine coolant reservoir (This is not on the E-class). When I 1st separated the systems, i didn't cap this return line, and after i ran the car, i noticed i had coolant boiling out of my NEW (BMW) I/C reservoir
(supposed to be a 100F system and it was boiling)!!! Furthermore, after i capped this line and FULLY separated the systems, my scangauge II showed much lower IATs. It was easy to do. Recovery time also decreased with this mod because hot engine coolant isn't fed into the system while driving (The only energy of heat added to the system is from the intercooler >THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE). I used the BMW power steering reservoir, fabricated a bracket for it, bought some hose clamps, and installed a couple of splices. It was easy to do.
These cars should have come with a separate reservoir from the factory. The separated circuit is a better and more efficient setup.. I understand people saying that the systems don't mix, but in fact they somewhat do, and when you lower the i/c circuit's temp significantly, the amount of mixing increases significantly as well. Try and run a 100 degree system linked to a 200+ degree F system and see what happens. The heat energy will transfer from high to low, and you will have an i/c circuit that is much warmer than if you split the systems. Try it, i have and KNOW it works...
6-Lastly, I installed a PTE thermostat to keep engine temps LOW.
I gotta say so far i LOVE the car.
I had a bad IC pump and really didn't know it until i started paying attention (the car ran out of power on HOT days). Then when i installed my ScanGauge II i was watching my IAT's in the high 190's i knew immediately...
When it comes to modifying the intercooler circuit, aside from increasing the flow, the best gains are made from increasing the capacity of intercooler circuit's coolant, as well as increasing the surface area of your heat exchanger. By putting a large second heat exchanger, I increased the capacity of intercooler coolant and the surface area for heat exchange at the same time.
This way it takes much longer to heat soak your setup. And as we all know, HEAT SOAK IS THE ENEMY!!
Basically, i did alot of research on the forums, and found ALOT of different ideas for cooling mods, and when i found i had problems, i incorporated all the ideas into my car (2nd heat exchanger/separated circuits/johnson CM30 pump/ pump wired to run all the time/the fans(my own idea).
I ordered everything i needed, and fabricated what i had to. I still have the stock oil cooler in place, and was actually able to fit the heat exchanger and the two 6" fans in front of it. It is tight, but it all fits, and works perfectly. When i turn on my fans, i feel hot air blowing out of the vents in the engine underpan where the oil cooler air is vented.
I drastically increased the performance of my car.
I don't know if i will ever do a pulley setup and a tune, but if i wanted to, i would certainly be setup for the extra heat problems that are associated with those mods.
I am happy to report that with my new IC circuit cooling mods i see IAT's that are consistently 21-23 degrees F above ambient in the summer, and 10 degrees F above ambient in the winter.
My cooling mods have DEFINATELY made this car come alive.
Occasionally on a hot day (80-85) at WOT the temps climb to 125F but almost instantly go back down to 109F and then in about 10seconds are back to around 100F.
This is MUCH improved over the IATs i had before that were shutting off the supercharger and retarding the timing... This info is based on my own real time personal experience. The mods are cheap. Try them, or don't..
01-26-2011, 08:00 PM
#43
Member
Well, for starters - why even bother if the 2 circuits had the same temperature?
Assuming they were the same temperature is tantamount to say engineers at AMG are as or more retarded than every shade tree mechanic...... really?
But more to the point - just take measurements of the coolant temperature that circulates in the low temperature circuit (charge air cooler) and it becomes abundantly obvious the low and high temp circuits don't mix.
Assuming they were the same temperature is tantamount to say engineers at AMG are as or more retarded than every shade tree mechanic...... really?
But more to the point - just take measurements of the coolant temperature that circulates in the low temperature circuit (charge air cooler) and it becomes abundantly obvious the low and high temp circuits don't mix.
01-26-2011, 09:04 PM
#44
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S63 AMG, E55 AMG,C Class AMG CLK55 AMG, Jeep Rubicon
+1 Love the setup.
I know a lot of people have gone the route of the trunk reservoir, but I knew I wanted to add more volume but make sure it was as efficient as possible. What I mean is that all the extra volume I was to hold would also be in a HE of some type to make sure it was working for me, I wanted more radiator rather than reservoir you could say, and I didn't want water and pump in my trunk as I use that area for normal day to day gears so it doesn't get thrown around the trunk when I am powersliding
But you cant really add ice to a HE
The volume is where its at, and I have been wanting to throw another HE in front of my stock one for some time, but thought by blocking the stock one, effects would be minimal on recovery, of course the volume will keep me from getting heat soaked but thought the recovery wouldn't be helped when I did.
I thought of some fans but didn't think that would make much of a difference except of course when standing still.
We have so much room in front of our stock HE and would make it look that more agressive with a HE right behind the grill rather than sunk back a foot or so.
Not to mention there are already two main bolts on the front bumper support that will work perfectly as long as your mounting tabs are skewed to the front of the new HE.
I think Im going to do this, but mount my fans to the back of my PLM HE that will be blocked rather than the new HE up front. For the new, I think I will need much wider HE than the PLM. Thank god I have found some cheaper alternatives since the PLM purchase.
I still don't have my system split, but have mixed theories on it, right now its not hurting to bad.
I wish someone would just make some Huge CHEAP top mount intercoolers, that would solve our issues.
Good job man and thanks for the input.
I know a lot of people have gone the route of the trunk reservoir, but I knew I wanted to add more volume but make sure it was as efficient as possible. What I mean is that all the extra volume I was to hold would also be in a HE of some type to make sure it was working for me, I wanted more radiator rather than reservoir you could say, and I didn't want water and pump in my trunk as I use that area for normal day to day gears so it doesn't get thrown around the trunk when I am powersliding
But you cant really add ice to a HE
The volume is where its at, and I have been wanting to throw another HE in front of my stock one for some time, but thought by blocking the stock one, effects would be minimal on recovery, of course the volume will keep me from getting heat soaked but thought the recovery wouldn't be helped when I did.
I thought of some fans but didn't think that would make much of a difference except of course when standing still.
We have so much room in front of our stock HE and would make it look that more agressive with a HE right behind the grill rather than sunk back a foot or so.
Not to mention there are already two main bolts on the front bumper support that will work perfectly as long as your mounting tabs are skewed to the front of the new HE.
I think Im going to do this, but mount my fans to the back of my PLM HE that will be blocked rather than the new HE up front. For the new, I think I will need much wider HE than the PLM. Thank god I have found some cheaper alternatives since the PLM purchase.
I still don't have my system split, but have mixed theories on it, right now its not hurting to bad.
I wish someone would just make some Huge CHEAP top mount intercoolers, that would solve our issues.
Good job man and thanks for the input.
I also modded the i/c circuit on my SL55 as follows...
1-Added a VERY large 2nd Heat Exchanger up front (26x7x2") and all the plumbing needed.
2-Attached (2) 6" fans to the backside of the new large heat exchanger up front that are controlled by a switch hidden in the ashtray. It would take longer for the IAT's to drop once i got off the highway after a long pull, so i installed the fans. They help tremendously while i am sitting at redlights and moving slowly. They don't reduce the overall temp of the i/c circuit more than if i didn't have them, but they absolutely do reduce the recovery time it takes for the temps to drop back down after they rise from a WOT pull...
3-Added a Johnson CM30 pump. (My stock pump crapped out on me and started my cooling revolution ).
4- I wired the pump to run when the car runs so it is constantly circulating water.
5- I Separated the Cooling system from the intercooler circuit and installed a small reservoir to hold my IC water. This really helped to keep IAT's down. It absolutely works. It keeps 200F degree coolant away from my 100F degree intercooler system. On the SL55, there is a bleed hose for the intercooler circuit that returns air and some coolant to the original engine coolant reservoir (This is not on the E-class). When I 1st separated the systems, i didn't cap this return line, and after i ran the car, i noticed i had coolant boiling out of my NEW (BMW) I/C reservoir (supposed to be a 100F system and it was boiling)!!!
Furthermore, after i capped this line and FULLY separated the systems, my scangauge II showed much lower IATs. It was easy to do. Recovery time also decreased with this mod because hot engine coolant isn't fed into the system while driving (The only energy of heat added to the system is from the intercooler >THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE). I used the BMW power steering reservoir, fabricated a bracket for it, bought some hose clamps, and installed a couple of splices. It was easy to do.
These cars should have come with a separate reservoir from the factory. The separated circuit is a better and more efficient setup.. I understand people saying that the systems don't mix, but in fact they somewhat do, and when you lower the i/c circuit's temp significantly, the amount of mixing increases significantly as well. Try and run a 100 degree system linked to a 200+ degree F system and see what happens. The heat energy will transfer from high to low, and you will have an i/c circuit that is much warmer than if you split the systems. Try it, i have and KNOW it works...
6-Lastly, I installed a PTE thermostat to keep engine temps LOW.
I gotta say so far i LOVE the car.
I had a bad IC pump and really didn't know it until i started paying attention (the car ran out of power on HOT days). Then when i installed my ScanGauge II i was watching my IAT's in the high 190's i knew immediately...
When it comes to modifying the intercooler circuit, aside from increasing the flow, the best gains are made from increasing the capacity of intercooler circuit's coolant, as well as increasing the surface area of your heat exchanger. By putting a large second heat exchanger, I increased the capacity of intercooler coolant and the surface area for heat exchange at the same time.
This way it takes much longer to heat soak your setup. And as we all know, HEAT SOAK IS THE ENEMY!!
Basically, i did alot of research on the forums, and found ALOT of different ideas for cooling mods, and when i found i had problems, i incorporated all the ideas into my car (2nd heat exchanger/separated circuits/johnson CM30 pump/ pump wired to run all the time/the fans(my own idea).
I ordered everything i needed, and fabricated what i had to. I still have the stock oil cooler in place, and was actually able to fit the heat exchanger and the two 6" fans in front of it. It is tight, but it all fits, and works perfectly. When i turn on my fans, i feel hot air blowing out of the vents in the engine underpan where the oil cooler air is vented.
I drastically increased the performance of my car.
I don't know if i will ever do a pulley setup and a tune, but if i wanted to, i would certainly be setup for the extra heat problems that are associated with those mods.
I am happy to report that with my new IC circuit cooling mods i see IAT's that are consistently 21-23 degrees F above ambient in the summer, and 10 degrees F above ambient in the winter.
My cooling mods have DEFINATELY made this car come alive.
Occasionally on a hot day (80-85) at WOT the temps climb to 125F but almost instantly go back down to 109F and then in about 10seconds are back to around 100F.
This is MUCH improved over the IATs i had before that were shutting off the supercharger and retarding the timing... This info is based on my own real time personal experience. The mods are cheap. Try them, or don't..
1-Added a VERY large 2nd Heat Exchanger up front (26x7x2") and all the plumbing needed.
2-Attached (2) 6" fans to the backside of the new large heat exchanger up front that are controlled by a switch hidden in the ashtray. It would take longer for the IAT's to drop once i got off the highway after a long pull, so i installed the fans. They help tremendously while i am sitting at redlights and moving slowly. They don't reduce the overall temp of the i/c circuit more than if i didn't have them, but they absolutely do reduce the recovery time it takes for the temps to drop back down after they rise from a WOT pull...
3-Added a Johnson CM30 pump. (My stock pump crapped out on me and started my cooling revolution
).4- I wired the pump to run when the car runs so it is constantly circulating water.
5- I Separated the Cooling system from the intercooler circuit and installed a small reservoir to hold my IC water. This really helped to keep IAT's down. It absolutely works. It keeps 200F degree coolant away from my 100F degree intercooler system. On the SL55, there is a bleed hose for the intercooler circuit that returns air and some coolant to the original engine coolant reservoir (This is not on the E-class). When I 1st separated the systems, i didn't cap this return line, and after i ran the car, i noticed i had coolant boiling out of my NEW (BMW) I/C reservoir
(supposed to be a 100F system and it was boiling)!!! Furthermore, after i capped this line and FULLY separated the systems, my scangauge II showed much lower IATs. It was easy to do. Recovery time also decreased with this mod because hot engine coolant isn't fed into the system while driving (The only energy of heat added to the system is from the intercooler >THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE). I used the BMW power steering reservoir, fabricated a bracket for it, bought some hose clamps, and installed a couple of splices. It was easy to do.
These cars should have come with a separate reservoir from the factory. The separated circuit is a better and more efficient setup.. I understand people saying that the systems don't mix, but in fact they somewhat do, and when you lower the i/c circuit's temp significantly, the amount of mixing increases significantly as well. Try and run a 100 degree system linked to a 200+ degree F system and see what happens. The heat energy will transfer from high to low, and you will have an i/c circuit that is much warmer than if you split the systems. Try it, i have and KNOW it works...
6-Lastly, I installed a PTE thermostat to keep engine temps LOW.
I gotta say so far i LOVE the car.
I had a bad IC pump and really didn't know it until i started paying attention (the car ran out of power on HOT days). Then when i installed my ScanGauge II i was watching my IAT's in the high 190's i knew immediately...
When it comes to modifying the intercooler circuit, aside from increasing the flow, the best gains are made from increasing the capacity of intercooler circuit's coolant, as well as increasing the surface area of your heat exchanger. By putting a large second heat exchanger, I increased the capacity of intercooler coolant and the surface area for heat exchange at the same time.
This way it takes much longer to heat soak your setup. And as we all know, HEAT SOAK IS THE ENEMY!!
Basically, i did alot of research on the forums, and found ALOT of different ideas for cooling mods, and when i found i had problems, i incorporated all the ideas into my car (2nd heat exchanger/separated circuits/johnson CM30 pump/ pump wired to run all the time/the fans(my own idea).
I ordered everything i needed, and fabricated what i had to. I still have the stock oil cooler in place, and was actually able to fit the heat exchanger and the two 6" fans in front of it. It is tight, but it all fits, and works perfectly. When i turn on my fans, i feel hot air blowing out of the vents in the engine underpan where the oil cooler air is vented.
I drastically increased the performance of my car.
I don't know if i will ever do a pulley setup and a tune, but if i wanted to, i would certainly be setup for the extra heat problems that are associated with those mods.
I am happy to report that with my new IC circuit cooling mods i see IAT's that are consistently 21-23 degrees F above ambient in the summer, and 10 degrees F above ambient in the winter.
My cooling mods have DEFINATELY made this car come alive.
Occasionally on a hot day (80-85) at WOT the temps climb to 125F but almost instantly go back down to 109F and then in about 10seconds are back to around 100F.
This is MUCH improved over the IATs i had before that were shutting off the supercharger and retarding the timing... This info is based on my own real time personal experience. The mods are cheap. Try them, or don't..
01-27-2011, 10:23 AM
#46
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well, for starters - why even bother if the 2 circuits had the same temperature?
Assuming they were the same temperature is tantamount to say engineers at AMG are as or more retarded than every shade tree mechanic...... really?
But more to the point - just take measurements of the coolant temperature that circulates in the low temperature circuit (charge air cooler) and it becomes abundantly obvious the low and high temp circuits don't mix.
Assuming they were the same temperature is tantamount to say engineers at AMG are as or more retarded than every shade tree mechanic...... really?
But more to the point - just take measurements of the coolant temperature that circulates in the low temperature circuit (charge air cooler) and it becomes abundantly obvious the low and high temp circuits don't mix.
Last edited by jmb614; 01-27-2011 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Smartass remarks
01-27-2011, 11:04 AM
#47
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well, for starters - why even bother if the 2 circuits had the same temperature?
Assuming they were the same temperature is tantamount to say engineers at AMG are as or more retarded than every shade tree mechanic...... really?
But more to the point - just take measurements of the coolant temperature that circulates in the low temperature circuit (charge air cooler) and it becomes abundantly obvious the low and high temp circuits don't mix.
Assuming they were the same temperature is tantamount to say engineers at AMG are as or more retarded than every shade tree mechanic...... really?
But more to the point - just take measurements of the coolant temperature that circulates in the low temperature circuit (charge air cooler) and it becomes abundantly obvious the low and high temp circuits don't mix.
01-27-2011, 11:05 AM
#48
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2005 E55 AMG
When I was looking at the intercooler circuit the other day, it seems like the intercooler has it's circuit completely separate from the radiator. The only thing they have in common is their filling points ( the expansion tank ). The intercooler does NOT seem to circulate water through this expansion tank though once it's full so I really don't see a big benefit in splitting the system unless you're going to install a large reservoir.
01-27-2011, 03:04 PM
#49
Member
Its a long story - my point is that by using common sense, everybody should realize that if the temperature in the engine radiator AND intercooler h/e were the same, what would be the point of having a separate intercooler h/e? Or in other words, the temperature in the radiator can easily reach 150 to 160 Fahrenheit under normal operating conditions, which engineer would use that temperature level for cooling the charge air?
GT-ER got it right.
GT-ER got it right.
01-27-2011, 03:06 PM
#50
Member
