BMW Unveils new Bi-Turbo V8 Engine
12-31-2007, 02:57 AM
#26
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as soon as F/I and turbos are allowed in F1 BMW will use it on their ///M division cars. for now its still N/A (a very good one at that)
I would LOVE to see MB's response to this...we already know Audi's (TT V10!!!)
I would LOVE to see MB's response to this...we already know Audi's (TT V10!!!)
12-31-2007, 06:14 AM
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BMW, has don't some funky things with turbocharging starting with their N54 engine (335i / 335xi).
The big thing driving non-M engine designs is fuel economy (and emissions) under the banner of efficient dynamics.
They started engine temperatures to modulate fuel econonmy and emissions. They deliberately run the engine hot to reduce internal friction and to improve fuel consumption / reduce emissions.
So heat is actually a good thing for the BMW turbo motor (to the extent they can control it). They lean out the engine and let it run hot in low load conditions.
So I imagine the reversed heads will somehow improve this.
Looks like they are also using 2 small liquid intercoolers too.
The big thing driving non-M engine designs is fuel economy (and emissions) under the banner of efficient dynamics.
They started engine temperatures to modulate fuel econonmy and emissions. They deliberately run the engine hot to reduce internal friction and to improve fuel consumption / reduce emissions.
So heat is actually a good thing for the BMW turbo motor (to the extent they can control it). They lean out the engine and let it run hot in low load conditions.
So I imagine the reversed heads will somehow improve this.
Looks like they are also using 2 small liquid intercoolers too.
Edit:Other than NORmal operating temps,Excessive thermal heat or heat period is never a good thing for an engine,especially an F/I engine.The more I look at this engine the more I dislike the design. Yes it's very innovative but they are using a very small intake and very small exhaust system. Well, on second thought, the exhaust system isn't so bad but the intake looks very restrictive. I can't imagine the car running very well when it's not under boost.
On my 335i they had to add oil coolers after a potential really disastrous build up of heat due to the excessive heat made by the twin turbos. All 335's from initial manafacture and up to about 6 months of production were affected. They really goofed on this one. I hope they take this heat build up seriously.
Sometimes innovative engineers get carried away and overlook the details as in the initial 335i design and initial production.
They also need to fire Bangle and come up with decent looking cars aside from the 3 series.
Sometimes innovative engineers get carried away and overlook the details as in the initial 335i design and initial production.
They also need to fire Bangle and come up with decent looking cars aside from the 3 series.
Last edited by ProjectC55; 12-31-2007 at 01:36 PM.
12-31-2007, 12:43 PM
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Wow you say that with such authority.... here is a snippet from the N54 technical document on how they use temperature to regulate fuel economy / emissions and how they deliberately run the engine hotter for low load conditions....
Is that you Carl?
12-31-2007, 01:33 PM
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12-31-2007, 01:35 PM
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12-31-2007, 01:38 PM
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12-31-2007, 05:51 PM
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It goes to reason that a cooler engine running leaner would be better for fuel consumption since you would have greater volumetric efficiency and thus you would need less fuel to make more power. Confused but opptimistic.
12-31-2007, 10:04 PM
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Interesting reading but I would think that the engine is getting warmer due to the decrease in fuel supplied to the engine via a lean fuel mixture. However, they are saying that an increase of temperature by means of the cooling system is increasing the efficiency of the engine but later in the article it says they produce greater volumetric effiency by a cooler running engine.
It goes to reason that a cooler engine running leaner would be better for fuel consumption since you would have greater volumetric efficiency and thus you would need less fuel to make more power. Confused but opptimistic.
It goes to reason that a cooler engine running leaner would be better for fuel consumption since you would have greater volumetric efficiency and thus you would need less fuel to make more power. Confused but opptimistic.
The apparent contradictions may arise from the different engine maps......
Happy New Year Carl and all!
01-01-2008, 01:04 AM
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With a baked potato too!
Just visualize how much heat will be right under the hood! The turbos, the exhaust collectors and associated plumbing to take the exhaust out to the rear of the car. Man, I hope they have this all taken into account not just prototyped in a "Bench" setup.
They need to test this thing in death valley and on the LA freeways in rush hour. I guess a new option will be a "Foam Fire Extinguisher" too
They need to test this thing in death valley and on the LA freeways in rush hour. I guess a new option will be a "Foam Fire Extinguisher" too
01-01-2008, 01:16 AM
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Just visualize how much heat will be right under the hood! The turbos, the exhaust collectors and associated plumbing to take the exhaust out to the rear of the car. Man, I hope they have this all taken into account not just prototyped in a "Bench" setup. They need to test this thing in death valley and on the LA freeways in rush hour. I guess a new option will be a "Foam Fire Extinguisher" too
They need to test this thing in death valley and on the LA freeways in rush hour. I guess a new option will be a "Foam Fire Extinguisher" too
01-01-2008, 01:33 AM
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Maybe this design lets them mount the engine lower. Lower centre of gravity helps handling and might help with the new standards for pedestrian impact safety.
01-01-2008, 02:44 AM
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It would need to be a dry sump motor for them to mount it any lower and that doesn't appear to be the case.
Last edited by BlownV8; 01-01-2008 at 02:46 AM.
01-01-2008, 12:32 PM
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Or what about the heat expansion of the manifolds in such a tight area?In a normal location they have alot of room to move around,but stuck between the heads in the valley there,they will be more limited.BMW not stupid but this doesnt seem like a good idea to me.Too much heat trapped in a small location.Not too mention the intake manifolds are now short log runners,not the best for making power even under forced induction.
They look like really small turbos though, I wonder how much boost they will be running. Additionally, this engine was designed to work in a hybrid system, so for heavy traffic with little air flow, the turbos may wastegated off.
It would be interesting to see how this engine works on full boost in the desert.
EDIT: Using heat would be a dangerous way for BMW to protect the M engines "crown".
Last edited by T Bone; 01-01-2008 at 12:36 PM.
