E55 KEV

Alright, we have read articles stating that the W211 E55 will have 469HP. While the SL55, S55 and CL55 all have 493 with the 'same' engine. Correct?

This excerpt from Car & Driver, December 2002 says the E55 has 469HP because the exhaust is longer:

"Now AMG admits that, due to differences in the induction geometry between the SL55 and E55 and the E55's longer exhaust system, the E55 produces less horsepower. That longer exhaust system may account for the more subdued, less dominant, but still potent exhaust waffle that's close to perfect for the sedan. Neither of which, apparently, makes any difference to the torque output. The E55 does have a slightly taller final-drive ratio than the SL55 (2.65 versus 2.82 for the sports car), but since the E55 weighs about 500 pounds less, we think it will be the quicker of the two."

Now, if the E55 produces 469HP because the exhaust is longer which means it is less efficient and therfore less HP my question is this:

How does the S55 and CL55 produce 493 with an even longer exhaust? Hmmmmm!

schvetkaaks

I'm not sure HOW they did it, but I know WHY they did it - the SL55, S55, and CL55 are all more expensive cars, so they would have to tone down the E55 horsepower to accomodate the change in price, or they would shoot themselves in the foot for the other three vehicles. One possible good point is that it is probably easy to even just chip it to nearly 500hp, as that might be how they do it on the other three - just changing the ECU programming. Swapping ECU's or reprogramming one's own won't void warranty, then you upped your hp to near 500...what you do with it is up to you, I guess

schvetkaaks

Here you go - H&S has already done it - http://www.hs-elektronik.com/datenbl...6ps-700nm.html

Bones

E55 KEV, here is a direct quote from AUTOCAR regardind the difference of horsepower from the CL55,S55,SL55 and the E55 "at first, Mercedes claimed that all models produced the 469bhp at 6100rpm it claims for the E55, but it then re-rated the other three at 493bhp, saying that the first figure was at the lower end of production tolerances but that the E55 remained the same because of of its different induction and exhaust systems." "The huge 516lb ft of torque from 2650 to 4500rpm remains the same for all four so it's likely your E55 will produce more power than it claims." It seems to me that the only "detuning" Mercedes did on the E55 was on paper, and just for marketing reasons.

Here is one more quote from AUTOCAR that I think sums up the new E55 pretty well "Back off, M5, the realm of the super-saloon welcomes a new top dog. AMG/Mercedes' latest E55 is faster, more capable, better riding- superior all round."

schvetkaaks

Bones - what you say makes sense - since the torque is the same, essentially the power would be the same, so it's probably only different on paper. Too bad no current owner (European, of course) of an E55 (W211) has dyno'd theirs and posted it, nor has an automotive magazine or journalist - would be an interesting read...

///MB

It's interesting to see that for some reason magazines compare the new E55 to the "old" M5. I guess it is because there is no new M5 to compare it against yet. However, the E55 being newer, should be better than the M5... until the new M5 comes out.

schvetkaaks

It doesn't seem to matter - most of the car mags still choose the M5 as if it was an imperial order to do so. The Automobile magazine even states 'by the numbers, the E55 should have won', but gee, guess what, it didn't. Why? Who knows, maybe 'just because'.

Bones

The biggest reason why the auto mags pick the M5 over the E55 is for the manual gear box. Is that a single good enough reason to pick one over the other? I guess that depends on what the buyer is looking for. The M5 (which I am a big fan of )set the bar high for the sport sedan category, I believe the new E55 has just raised the bar even higher. From all reports it seems the E60 M5 will have a 500hp V10 with a new SMGIII gearbox, which sounds very enticing. The wildcard for me will be the design of the E60 M5. From the spy shots, it seems the 5 series design will have Bangle's ugly rearend, and big yellow eyebrows for turn signals over slanted headlights. I already have a deposit (#9) at my dealer for the E60 M5. I am planning to put a deposit down on the new E55 at the end of the month. From what I have read ,.the new 5 series will be reaveled in March. This will give me a good indication of what the E60 M5 will look like, thus being able to make a better decision on which car I will purchase. Either way, both will be amazing cars.

schvetkaaks

Bones - won't the E60 M5 be another 2 years or so away from release once the E60 5-series is released? It is my understanding that it is at least a full year delay behind the release of any new model before they pull out the M-version of the new model...

Bones

schvetkaaks- from what I have read, the E60 5 series will debut in September 2003 as a 2004 model year. The new M5 will arrive late 2004 as a 2005 model year. This is what I have read in most of the auto mags, and the BMW messageboards. The guys on www.bmwm5.com are pretty much dialed in on this topic, I guess we will have to wait and see.

schvetkaaks

You know what's both ironic and quite funny? Look at the topic of this thread - 'Why does E55 have 469hp?' - here we are complaining that this car has ONLY 469hp, and just a few years ago, nobody would have even dreamed this possible in a mainstream sedan, much less one under $100k!! Hilarious...

E55 KEV

I too have speculated that MBZ downgraded the HP figures on the E55 only on paper and for a marketing standpoint. Maybe this makes the S55, CL55 and SL55 owners fell superior or something.

So if the new/next E60 M5 comes in 2004 as a 2005 model then the W211 E55 will remain supreme when the magazines test 2004 Super Sedans. BMW will not have a car to offer up for the testing in 2004.

E55 KEV

We need that 500HP DIN & 493HP SAE ratings on paper and in the E55 OEM specs. It will be the only way to shut-up the M5 crowd when that 500HP motor hits the streets.

schvetkaaks

They might still dig out an E39 M5 and it will likely still win in most tests just because it is the original M5 and it always wins - sort of a law...

schvetkaaks

True - even if E55 owners can prove through independent testing that the actual hp is 493 or whatever, if it's not on paper and not on their promotional materials, the E55 will be second to the M5 if it truly comes out with a whopping 500hp

schvetkaaks

at least when the new M5 comes out, all supersedans will have some form of an auto'box', so the field will be more fairly laid out.

Bones

Even though Mercedes's promotional material will have the E55 rated at 469hp, the owners manual might tell the tale of the actual hp.

E55KEV, did you not find an extra 5-6 more hp in your manual for the W210 E55?

bimmerlover

i have to say that would be true if smg werent actually a computer operated manual. in addition the stick shift will be there as well. i think that a lot of you are right that the m5 gets favoritism for its manual, but you also forget it handles better and a shifts better. granted the new mercedes is a lot more powerful, but all across the review magazines there has been a general consensus that the feel is too computerized the brakes are wierd and the handling isnt where it should be, but for me i wouldnt care. id drive either.

and back to the engine thing, all those engines are the same. thats why although i love the sl55 i could never tell anyone they are sane for paying that much over msrp, when there are four other classes in the benz line with the same engine.

amg55

I visited with my wife's long time BMW sales guy tonight and asked about release dates.
He said what Bones stated: new 5 series should appear fall '03, E60M5 due fall '04 or withing 6 months thereafter.

em2023

Hey there fellow car nut,

You guys have one hell of a discussion going here so I figured I'd contribute and plug this info I just read from
"Motor Trend Jan. 2003" issue regarding the new e55.....

.....It’ll have an optional MANUAL TRANNY!! When I read this, it totally surprised me!!, I had to read it twice to make sure I didn't mistakenly read a different MB class, especially knowing that MB is notoriously known for making automatics!

(I'm pasting the Motor Trend site that shows how the latest issue’s cover looks like to facilitate spotting it from all the other magazines it blends with)

Here’s the issue I’m referring to, if you see it when grocery shopping with the wifey don’t hesitate to read the article I’m referring to.

http://www.motortrend.com/toc/index.html

It’s under the “FIRST Drive” section of the magazine.
(“FIRST Drive: 2004 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG”)

ajoe

Even though BMW smg transmission is supposed to be "quicker", all test figures I've seen for M3 manual vs M3 smg indicates the smg versions are .5 - .7 sec slower is comparitive 0-60 and quarter mile times.

Bones

There is a slight difference in 0-60 times between the manual M3 and SMG M3, but most of this is due to lack of knowledge of how to properly launch a SMG equipped M3. Most magazine testers do not even know that a hidden"launch control" feature is available in US equipped SMG cars. This feature allows either a very controlled launch with very little wheel spin, or a "smoke show" launch. A manual M3 usually produces the best 0-60 times because a driver can easily manipulate the clutch to produce the best time, but a SMG M3 will give you more consistent times. By the quarter mile the difference in times between the two are negligible at best. The SMG provides perfect upshifts every time, perfect rev-matched downshifts, numerous shifting patterns depending on your driving desires, and no more clutch. SMG does have some "flaws" for lack of a better word, but it is great technology.

anerbe

In reading this section in motortrend as well, i did a double-take as well in regards to the manual trans. Upon closer inspection resulting in lost hope , motor trend states....

"Although we'd like to see AMG offer a manual transmission as an option (on any of its models), 35 years of building highly tuned versions of road going cars with automatics has put them at the pinnacle of the easy-to-drive configurations. "


AMG should start making some manual version, i wonder how much more the prices will be jacked up! If they do, i'm sure BMW will have to add another spice to their recipie besides the manual to win the cookoff


Ernie

amg55

If you look at the trend, the move is away from manuals.
BMW is even making mention of eliminating straight manuals within a few years in favor of SMG type transmissions or straight automatics.
I doubt MB will seek to break new ground with manuals while everyone else moves the other way.

anerbe

The moving towards advanced automatics is inevitable..........
but cant a man dream a bit........

One more needed option (not gonna happen though)........a speed sensing spoiler (not big and ricey though) to keep the sleekness around town, and for the m5's to see something pop up waving goodbye while you pass them on the expressway

Ernie