AMG Style III 19" (CLS55): Help me choose a rear tire
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Super Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 607
Likes: 1
From: 2 star town
R350
CynCarvin: Thanks for your help! I've ordered the 245/35, 275/30 tires and should be in next week. I'll post pictures once they're installed.
When you lowered your E55, did you use STAR, drop links or some other method? What's your recommendation?
BTW, your comments ... system has voltage levels for each ride height sensor and that voltage range gives maybe a 1 inch window where you can fool the car into thinking it should sit lower. is exactly what I heard from my local MB dealer.
[QUOTE=CynCarvin32;2880210]
The car does not raise when you turn the steering wheel. That is no a function of airmatic. The 25 ET on the front axle with a 255 will likely rub if you hit a bump with steering input. This will cause the fender lip to be bent down, the paint could crack and the tire will likely have a nice slice in the sidewall. Using a 245 on the front axle will make this much less likely to happen. There is a reason AMG uses ET 30 and 31 on the W211. They know the 25/28 combo is pushing the limits and they can not guarantee it to be a safe fit. Non TUV approved upgrade so to say.
Moving the wheel 5 mm in board on the front axle (when going to the W211 spec wheel from the CLS/SL spec wheel) means you are safe from rubbing but only at a 245. To get to 255 and 265 on the front axle you need an ET of 35.
155 should get some 245 and 275 tires and be done. It still might rub a TAD but it will likely be just fine.
All that the DAS lowering does is fool the car into thinking it is sitting higher than it really is. Its not factory approved, its no better safety wise than the other methods, but it does make it less likely to have your warranty voided if you have an issue and they prove the car is lowered. The system has voltage levels for each ride height sensor and that voltage range gives maybe a 1 inch window where you can fool the car into thinking it should sit lower. The car knows that the ideal ride height is going to take place between two voltage levels. You have to set the ride height with the inclination angles THEN input that voltage value for the car to accept the level. If you set it at the lower end of the voltage (positive or negative depending on the sensor) the car will sit lower than the factory envisioned. The factory ride height calibration method is to set the angle on the half shafts and front control arms to a specif inclination angle and THEN input the voltage readings shown at that level. That way the car its correctly as per the factory. The car will accept levels that are lower (because its still in that permitted voltage range) but its NOT what the factory considers correct because the angels on the half shafts and the front control arms are NOT set to the factory spec when the car is "lowered." Newer versions of the AirMatic cars (and ABC system as well), like the W221 are more exact and they wont accept a value that is not at the ideal level. They have seemingly closed this door for DAS based lowering.
Done all this on my E55 when I had it. 155 is on the right track with smaller tires especially if he wants the car lowered.
When you lowered your E55, did you use STAR, drop links or some other method? What's your recommendation?
BTW, your comments ... system has voltage levels for each ride height sensor and that voltage range gives maybe a 1 inch window where you can fool the car into thinking it should sit lower. is exactly what I heard from my local MB dealer.
[QUOTE=CynCarvin32;2880210]
The car does not raise when you turn the steering wheel. That is no a function of airmatic. The 25 ET on the front axle with a 255 will likely rub if you hit a bump with steering input. This will cause the fender lip to be bent down, the paint could crack and the tire will likely have a nice slice in the sidewall. Using a 245 on the front axle will make this much less likely to happen. There is a reason AMG uses ET 30 and 31 on the W211. They know the 25/28 combo is pushing the limits and they can not guarantee it to be a safe fit. Non TUV approved upgrade so to say.
Moving the wheel 5 mm in board on the front axle (when going to the W211 spec wheel from the CLS/SL spec wheel) means you are safe from rubbing but only at a 245. To get to 255 and 265 on the front axle you need an ET of 35.
155 should get some 245 and 275 tires and be done. It still might rub a TAD but it will likely be just fine.
All that the DAS lowering does is fool the car into thinking it is sitting higher than it really is. Its not factory approved, its no better safety wise than the other methods, but it does make it less likely to have your warranty voided if you have an issue and they prove the car is lowered. The system has voltage levels for each ride height sensor and that voltage range gives maybe a 1 inch window where you can fool the car into thinking it should sit lower. The car knows that the ideal ride height is going to take place between two voltage levels. You have to set the ride height with the inclination angles THEN input that voltage value for the car to accept the level. If you set it at the lower end of the voltage (positive or negative depending on the sensor) the car will sit lower than the factory envisioned. The factory ride height calibration method is to set the angle on the half shafts and front control arms to a specif inclination angle and THEN input the voltage readings shown at that level. That way the car its correctly as per the factory. The car will accept levels that are lower (because its still in that permitted voltage range) but its NOT what the factory considers correct because the angels on the half shafts and the front control arms are NOT set to the factory spec when the car is "lowered." Newer versions of the AirMatic cars (and ABC system as well), like the W221 are more exact and they wont accept a value that is not at the ideal level. They have seemingly closed this door for DAS based lowering.
Done all this on my E55 when I had it. 155 is on the right track with smaller tires especially if he wants the car lowered.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,923
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Mercedes Benz
[QUOTE=155;2882078]CynCarvin: Thanks for your help! I've ordered the 245/35, 275/30 tires and should be in next week. I'll post pictures once they're installed.
When you lowered your E55, did you use STAR, drop links or some other method? What's your recommendation?
BTW, your comments ... system has voltage levels for each ride height sensor and that voltage range gives maybe a 1 inch window where you can fool the car into thinking it should sit lower. is exactly what I heard from my local MB dealer.
I did the StarDiagnostic Method for my lowering. It took 4 trips down to the dealership and likely 15 hrs total time working on the car with my friend to get it right.
We had to learn how the system worked as its not as simple as everyone thinks. You have to get an even height and then you have to make sure the ride height after you unplug the car is what you want because the level you see during the calibration is NOT what you get when you are finished.
When you unplug the car form the multiplexer it actually will drop down up to an additional .75 of an inch leaving you very slammed down. The first time I did not notice and the car came back extremely low and it was not what I wanted. I went back to get it correct and then the front was not even. Finally it was set to a very minor lowering of about .5 of an inch and it was what I wanted. At that level it still drove well (not perfect but manageable) and it looked great. The lowering did increase the negative camber but that was one of my goals as I was looking for improved grip, better turn in, and less body roll.
When doing your lowering take a stock measurement from the center of the hub to the bottom of the fender lip. This takes tire and wheel size out fo the equation and works purely on suspension height. After that try and get the car to sit at that rake but just .5 to .75 inches lower. I think that should make you pretty pleased. The rear will sit lower but thats a good thing since the rear is stiffer and less prone to bottoming out than the front (with the motor hung over the front axle). A little extra travel in the front will work well and it will also make the car stay with a stock rake instead of tipped forward.
The star method is likely the simplest method for lowering. If you know a tech who will do it for you it should not cost a fortune and it will work well. The new age of digital lowering modules really is nice however. A renntech ELM really is hard to pass up but some just dont want to use anything that could be seen as a risk to the warranty. Having the ELM lets you fine tune the height of the car and chagne it as you feel fit. I was about to go that route with my E55 since I wanted to go back to stock when driving with 5 people in the car etc but I ended up selling the car instead.
The links and washers method works ok but its a bit hokey and it can come lose causing the car to slam down while being driven. That is a risk I was not willing to take.
For best tire life go have an alignment done after the lowering and use the factory crash bolts to remove the additional negative camber up front. If you want better handling leave it alone and accept the reduced tire life. You can also increase the caster and take out a bit of toe in to make turn in quicker and sharper.
If you want to spend the money for the ELM the RENNtech is a great unit but the StarDiag. method is very good as well as long as you get it right the first time around.
Good luck.
When you lowered your E55, did you use STAR, drop links or some other method? What's your recommendation?
BTW, your comments ... system has voltage levels for each ride height sensor and that voltage range gives maybe a 1 inch window where you can fool the car into thinking it should sit lower. is exactly what I heard from my local MB dealer.
I did the StarDiagnostic Method for my lowering. It took 4 trips down to the dealership and likely 15 hrs total time working on the car with my friend to get it right.
We had to learn how the system worked as its not as simple as everyone thinks. You have to get an even height and then you have to make sure the ride height after you unplug the car is what you want because the level you see during the calibration is NOT what you get when you are finished.
When you unplug the car form the multiplexer it actually will drop down up to an additional .75 of an inch leaving you very slammed down. The first time I did not notice and the car came back extremely low and it was not what I wanted. I went back to get it correct and then the front was not even. Finally it was set to a very minor lowering of about .5 of an inch and it was what I wanted. At that level it still drove well (not perfect but manageable) and it looked great. The lowering did increase the negative camber but that was one of my goals as I was looking for improved grip, better turn in, and less body roll.
When doing your lowering take a stock measurement from the center of the hub to the bottom of the fender lip. This takes tire and wheel size out fo the equation and works purely on suspension height. After that try and get the car to sit at that rake but just .5 to .75 inches lower. I think that should make you pretty pleased. The rear will sit lower but thats a good thing since the rear is stiffer and less prone to bottoming out than the front (with the motor hung over the front axle). A little extra travel in the front will work well and it will also make the car stay with a stock rake instead of tipped forward.
The star method is likely the simplest method for lowering. If you know a tech who will do it for you it should not cost a fortune and it will work well. The new age of digital lowering modules really is nice however. A renntech ELM really is hard to pass up but some just dont want to use anything that could be seen as a risk to the warranty. Having the ELM lets you fine tune the height of the car and chagne it as you feel fit. I was about to go that route with my E55 since I wanted to go back to stock when driving with 5 people in the car etc but I ended up selling the car instead.
The links and washers method works ok but its a bit hokey and it can come lose causing the car to slam down while being driven. That is a risk I was not willing to take.
For best tire life go have an alignment done after the lowering and use the factory crash bolts to remove the additional negative camber up front. If you want better handling leave it alone and accept the reduced tire life. You can also increase the caster and take out a bit of toe in to make turn in quicker and sharper.
If you want to spend the money for the ELM the RENNtech is a great unit but the StarDiag. method is very good as well as long as you get it right the first time around.
Good luck.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,760
Likes: 594
From: Seattle
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
Cyn, UBERFAKER is the same guy who insisted his E550 was an E63 a few months ago, CYBERIMAGE.
Yes, that's right folks, our running joke for a solid month has returned with more belligerent misinformation to spout!!! Break out your AMG catalogs people!!!
Yes, that's right folks, our running joke for a solid month has returned with more belligerent misinformation to spout!!! Break out your AMG catalogs people!!!
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Merc Eclass AMG
Wow
your previous post about admitting your not a car guru says it all..
your not.
also are you foriegn or something and have bad english, or you just cant read cause I said like 4 times in teh recommendation to that guy to USE 275's
NOT 285 cause the 285 will rub..
I never said use 285's he said he had them and had problems so I said get 275's since I have the exact same rims as he does..
which you probably DONT even have and are just talking out your ***..
the things you do say are totally wrong .... and your reasons..
I talked to engineers at AMG, MERC, VREDENSTEIN tires, Porsche racing,
and several race teams while researching this, so my data is born out..
the suspension height DOES matter as does the distance between the tires and the fender and wheel well
when you said "Its important to remember that ride height has NOTHING to do with rubbing"
that is probably the most stupid thing I have ever hear and totally wrong.
then you say in the same post contradicting your self and I quote
"A very low riding car with OEM tires and wheels can still rub and cut tires if you enter a driveway with large angles of steering input and have the suspension compress a bit. Its not something you want to risk so having a safety buffer is always ideal. "
that is exactly what I told that guy in my original post, that ride height is a variable and can affect things.. and a safety buffer of like 30 mm is idea. jesus, were you drunk, or just didnt read what I said..
you argue with me in your post and say Im wrong and yet you repeat the same GD thing I said exactly, and also contradict yourself in the process as well..
my god man whats wrong with you.?
think about it, if that were true and suspension height didnt matter why would 4X4 off road vhehicles raise their ride height , so they increase suspension height to prevent rubbing and suspension damage. and yet their tires stick way out past of the fenders and are very wide for stability..
I have been at the BAJA 1000 offroad race with friends and driven some of the cars, have you?
if you knew anything you would know that the distance between the fender and the wheel well is important, and can affect bottoming out and rubbing,, cause if you have an extra 5-10 mm in height, you will likley have extra play not to rub in 98% of street situations, and hard cornering. whereas, if you had a smaller tire like a 265 or 275 that normally clears the rear fender, it will still bottom out, or possible rub if the car is lowered too much..
also, you forget to take into account the aspect ratio of the tires,
a 35 in rear could rub whereas a 30 series may not..
also, you forgot or dont know enough to know that RIM width also makes a difference on rubbing.
in this case with the AMG type 3, its a 9.5" in rear, which is 1/2 inch LARGER than the E class stock of 9 inches..
therefore, when you put a 265 or 275 in the rear, it STRETCHES more over the rim and gives that stretched look, and moreover, then is obviously less TALL slightly and tends to narrow inward a tthe top, so its LESS LIKELY to RUB, than say,fixed amout of rubber streatched over a larger area is less height
the same tire 275 on a 9" rim cause the actualy height is 2-3 mm more, as it is a fixed amount of ribber on a smaller hoizontal surface as it has to stretch less horizontally on the smaller rim, thus reducing its height..
when you COMBINE, the LARGER rim size of 9.5" of the AMG 19" rim, with a 275
with a smaller aspect ration tire of 30 series, it is not tall at all, and in fact narrows somewhat as the height increases, kinda making it go inward slightly.. so it clears..
but the same 275 tire, say on a 9" rim factory not as stretched and say a 35 series
is actaully 14-15 mm TALLER, than the same 275 on a 9.5inch rim in a 30 series..
that 14-15mm will make the difference in rubbing.
this is a fact, measure it, ask a racing team.. I did.. and have.. and tried all sorts of combos.. ask any tire shop or go see for yourself
as far as you asking me if I lowered any mercedes,ever LOL YEAH like 3 of them,
multiple times.. and yes with at least 3 difference mercedes merchanics,
and also a racing team engineer, and it was done with STAR software, and I was there everytime, and seen also like 4 friends do it and helped them..
so your comments and asssumptions are again WRONG WRONG WRONG.
I know how it works alot.
when you say your offset data is tried and true, I dont know if you and some buddies are drinking budweisers and expierimenting, on tires which you call tried and true..
lol but I posted the ET offset data, direct from the website and engineering data and catalog of MERC and AMG..
and I said the type 3 wheels is made different for different cars.. didnt you read my original posts..
I also posted PROOF, right from the AMG data sheets, and PICTURES from AMG with the wheels on the cars.. lol in this thread each seperately on each car..
and I said the e class offsets were different by 5mm than the SL or CLS
here it is again, since you obviously cant read or missed it
and you argued with me when I posted AMG data and then you repeat exactly what I originally posted..
here is the post again so you can see how silly you sound
the S class AMG type 3 is
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1207 9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1208
the CLS and CLS 55 TYPE 3 AMG 8.5 x 19 ET 25, size 245/35 or 255/353 tyres, FA only B6 603 1209
9.5 x 19 ET 28, size 275/30 or 285/303 tyres, RA only
the E class AMG type 3 wheel size and order code is
8 .5 x 19 ET 30, size 245/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1237
9.5 x 19 ET 31, size 275/30 tyres, RA only B6 603 1238
the SL class and 55/65 AMG type 3
8.5 x 19 ET 30, size 255/35 tyres, for FA and RA B6 603 1237
9.5 x 19 ET 31, size 285/30 tyres, RA only B6 603 1238
the CL class and 55/65 TYPE 3 wheel
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1197
9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1198
the S class and s55/65 Type 3 wheel
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1207
9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1208
what you failed to understand between front wheel rub and rear wheel rub is engineering wise and physics wise, there are 2 totally difference reasons and locations for the rubbing, and intereference.
FRONT tires rub either VERTICALLY,due to incorrect offset, in vertical motion
or due to car being too low, and reducing suspension vertical travel etc..
but front tires can also RUb Horizontally, by being too wide, and not clearing suspension components, and interefering with certain geometries that would work for a smaller tire..
I managed to TEST THIS, but using Grease paint, and seeing where the rubbing actualy happens, on difference size tires,
DID YOU , NO.
Rear tires dont turn,, so horizontal is not an issue just vertical and you can compensate potential rubbing, but choosing, a lower aspect ratio,
certain brand of tire,, larger rim with different offset and making sure your car is at proper MIN ride Height
what you also failed to comprehend, is that if the offset if less, therefore making the tire stick out MORE as is the case with the ET 25 in the front,
it is more likely to rub with a larger tire vertically when under load.. on the OUTSIDE, yes,
but its also farther out slightly and may not rub on the inside
necessarily..horizontally as it would with a different offset,
there are so many variable that you failed to mention in your over simplistic BS that you tried to make sound official..
do you even have these exact rims, and tires,, probably not..
I do, so I was speaking from personal expierence and trying to help the guy
with the 25 hours I researched and expierimented with them
did you even know the tires can vary alot in shape so that one can rub with same setup and another may not, somtimes by as much as 2 mm..
ALL i said to that guy was, that the 275 tire will work with the ET 28 CLS55 or SL 55 rim cause I am using it right now on my tires and have grease paint tested it for rubbing, and hit if hard under corners and bumps and it will not RUB PERIOD with a 275.. Unless he has lowered the car too much.. which is the part he didnt mention but with theproper 28-30 mm clearence in the fender and tires, it will be fine
as far as your lame advice for lowering,, you made some mistakes there too,
which I would not care about if you had not been such a dick, and started in with me..
if you knew, the most you can lower mercs using the star method is around 18-19mm and I have verified this, with like 3 mercedes engineers including ones in germany, and here, and also with the mechanics who have done my cars
when you do more like an inch it simply resets itself..
and when you say you need realignment, YOU dont if you do 18 mm using star method, as there is negligable camber change and caster change when lowering less than 1 inch..
and if you really know how to lower the car right, you need to lower the car using the star method while the CAR is on a alignment JIG, for a perfectly level surface so you do not have to constantly redo it, and get a messed up result
I checked this after my car was lowered with the results on the alignment jig pre lowering and it is almost identical.. so you dont really need to realign the car..the the alignment tech who was there as well with me so..
also if you ever read any magazines or tech papers, one just did a huge article on lowering and said you only need to realign when you lower more than 1.25 inches and they interviews like car manufactures and race teams as sources.. lol
you would know that you only need to realign a lowered car is you lower it more than say 1 1/4 inches..
its the guys who lower their cars like 2-3 inches , IE GHETTO that have alighment problems.. most factories allow for slight lowering without major suspension deformation of around 20-30 mm
and when you recommend the renntech LM to him, I guess you forggot to mention it voids the merc warranty, whereas if you get a merc tech at a dealer to lower it its within FACTORY spec which is 19mm, so warranty is still good..
its called ROW spec, or rest of world cause US cars are set like 18 mm higher because of all the traveling on ships, and rail cars they have to do to get to the dealers whereas the rest of the workd mercs are factory set lower
so if you lower your US car to the ROW spec its still within MERC specs and has warranty still..
now granted if your suspension is so stiff like a race car, that suspension travel is NIL, than you can lower a car much lower than the 25mm clearence you need with a normal suspension..
but our cars have a AIR SUSPENSION, which means its stiffness is limited, and softer, and thus is more susceptable to bottoming out, if lowered too much,
cause you cannot compensate the lowering with stiffened springs and shocks.
like you can with a normal suspension
that fact that if took you 4 trips to your dealer to lower you ****ing car, and had to do it 4 times and your tech said it can lower 25 mm tells me he was totally inept, cause it took me like 20 min each time, and the merc tech shows me that when you try to do more than 20 mm it resets because it detects unsafe load and geometry levels.. and voltages so you cannot do it 1 inch or 25 mm which is probably why your tech took 4 F****ing hours to do it, holy crap !
and mine who knew you can only go like 18-20 mm before it resets did it in 20 min.. lol
the other issue is the airmatic compensates for level ground, and adjusts itself, which is why you need to lower it on a alignment rig, or you are gonna eye it wrong.
I would go on and on, but this gets embarrasing for you..
I have owned and raced many cars, with many suspension setups,, including project cars with Bilstein turbo cup Porsches, Vettes and Suspension techniques race cars,raced at willow springs, and have alot of friends that have racing teams as well, having met the likes of Jackie Stewart, ANDI Granetelli, GEorge Barris etc so, I dont like to brag at all, but when you say people dont know what they are talking about, be careful cause some do,, and will make you look foolish kinda like now.
so just give people advice and try to be helpful like I did to that guy, without insulting people or trying to prove you know your right and others are wrong.
when in fact the opposite is true.
peace
your previous post about admitting your not a car guru says it all..
your not.
also are you foriegn or something and have bad english, or you just cant read cause I said like 4 times in teh recommendation to that guy to USE 275's
NOT 285 cause the 285 will rub..
I never said use 285's he said he had them and had problems so I said get 275's since I have the exact same rims as he does..
which you probably DONT even have and are just talking out your ***..
the things you do say are totally wrong .... and your reasons..
I talked to engineers at AMG, MERC, VREDENSTEIN tires, Porsche racing,
and several race teams while researching this, so my data is born out..
the suspension height DOES matter as does the distance between the tires and the fender and wheel well
when you said "Its important to remember that ride height has NOTHING to do with rubbing"
that is probably the most stupid thing I have ever hear and totally wrong.
then you say in the same post contradicting your self and I quote
"A very low riding car with OEM tires and wheels can still rub and cut tires if you enter a driveway with large angles of steering input and have the suspension compress a bit. Its not something you want to risk so having a safety buffer is always ideal. "
that is exactly what I told that guy in my original post, that ride height is a variable and can affect things.. and a safety buffer of like 30 mm is idea. jesus, were you drunk, or just didnt read what I said..
you argue with me in your post and say Im wrong and yet you repeat the same GD thing I said exactly, and also contradict yourself in the process as well..
my god man whats wrong with you.?
think about it, if that were true and suspension height didnt matter why would 4X4 off road vhehicles raise their ride height , so they increase suspension height to prevent rubbing and suspension damage. and yet their tires stick way out past of the fenders and are very wide for stability..
I have been at the BAJA 1000 offroad race with friends and driven some of the cars, have you?
if you knew anything you would know that the distance between the fender and the wheel well is important, and can affect bottoming out and rubbing,, cause if you have an extra 5-10 mm in height, you will likley have extra play not to rub in 98% of street situations, and hard cornering. whereas, if you had a smaller tire like a 265 or 275 that normally clears the rear fender, it will still bottom out, or possible rub if the car is lowered too much..
also, you forget to take into account the aspect ratio of the tires,
a 35 in rear could rub whereas a 30 series may not..
also, you forgot or dont know enough to know that RIM width also makes a difference on rubbing.
in this case with the AMG type 3, its a 9.5" in rear, which is 1/2 inch LARGER than the E class stock of 9 inches..
therefore, when you put a 265 or 275 in the rear, it STRETCHES more over the rim and gives that stretched look, and moreover, then is obviously less TALL slightly and tends to narrow inward a tthe top, so its LESS LIKELY to RUB, than say,fixed amout of rubber streatched over a larger area is less height
the same tire 275 on a 9" rim cause the actualy height is 2-3 mm more, as it is a fixed amount of ribber on a smaller hoizontal surface as it has to stretch less horizontally on the smaller rim, thus reducing its height..
when you COMBINE, the LARGER rim size of 9.5" of the AMG 19" rim, with a 275
with a smaller aspect ration tire of 30 series, it is not tall at all, and in fact narrows somewhat as the height increases, kinda making it go inward slightly.. so it clears..
but the same 275 tire, say on a 9" rim factory not as stretched and say a 35 series
is actaully 14-15 mm TALLER, than the same 275 on a 9.5inch rim in a 30 series..
that 14-15mm will make the difference in rubbing.
this is a fact, measure it, ask a racing team.. I did.. and have.. and tried all sorts of combos.. ask any tire shop or go see for yourself
as far as you asking me if I lowered any mercedes,ever LOL YEAH like 3 of them,
multiple times.. and yes with at least 3 difference mercedes merchanics,
and also a racing team engineer, and it was done with STAR software, and I was there everytime, and seen also like 4 friends do it and helped them..
so your comments and asssumptions are again WRONG WRONG WRONG.
I know how it works alot.
when you say your offset data is tried and true, I dont know if you and some buddies are drinking budweisers and expierimenting, on tires which you call tried and true..
lol but I posted the ET offset data, direct from the website and engineering data and catalog of MERC and AMG..
and I said the type 3 wheels is made different for different cars.. didnt you read my original posts..
I also posted PROOF, right from the AMG data sheets, and PICTURES from AMG with the wheels on the cars.. lol in this thread each seperately on each car..
and I said the e class offsets were different by 5mm than the SL or CLS
here it is again, since you obviously cant read or missed it
and you argued with me when I posted AMG data and then you repeat exactly what I originally posted..
here is the post again so you can see how silly you sound
the S class AMG type 3 is
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1207 9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1208
the CLS and CLS 55 TYPE 3 AMG 8.5 x 19 ET 25, size 245/35 or 255/353 tyres, FA only B6 603 1209
9.5 x 19 ET 28, size 275/30 or 285/303 tyres, RA only
the E class AMG type 3 wheel size and order code is
8 .5 x 19 ET 30, size 245/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1237
9.5 x 19 ET 31, size 275/30 tyres, RA only B6 603 1238
the SL class and 55/65 AMG type 3
8.5 x 19 ET 30, size 255/35 tyres, for FA and RA B6 603 1237
9.5 x 19 ET 31, size 285/30 tyres, RA only B6 603 1238
the CL class and 55/65 TYPE 3 wheel
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1197
9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1198
the S class and s55/65 Type 3 wheel
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1207
9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1208
what you failed to understand between front wheel rub and rear wheel rub is engineering wise and physics wise, there are 2 totally difference reasons and locations for the rubbing, and intereference.
FRONT tires rub either VERTICALLY,due to incorrect offset, in vertical motion
or due to car being too low, and reducing suspension vertical travel etc..
but front tires can also RUb Horizontally, by being too wide, and not clearing suspension components, and interefering with certain geometries that would work for a smaller tire..
I managed to TEST THIS, but using Grease paint, and seeing where the rubbing actualy happens, on difference size tires,
DID YOU , NO.
Rear tires dont turn,, so horizontal is not an issue just vertical and you can compensate potential rubbing, but choosing, a lower aspect ratio,
certain brand of tire,, larger rim with different offset and making sure your car is at proper MIN ride Height
what you also failed to comprehend, is that if the offset if less, therefore making the tire stick out MORE as is the case with the ET 25 in the front,
it is more likely to rub with a larger tire vertically when under load.. on the OUTSIDE, yes,
but its also farther out slightly and may not rub on the inside
necessarily..horizontally as it would with a different offset,
there are so many variable that you failed to mention in your over simplistic BS that you tried to make sound official..
do you even have these exact rims, and tires,, probably not..
I do, so I was speaking from personal expierence and trying to help the guy
with the 25 hours I researched and expierimented with them
did you even know the tires can vary alot in shape so that one can rub with same setup and another may not, somtimes by as much as 2 mm..
ALL i said to that guy was, that the 275 tire will work with the ET 28 CLS55 or SL 55 rim cause I am using it right now on my tires and have grease paint tested it for rubbing, and hit if hard under corners and bumps and it will not RUB PERIOD with a 275.. Unless he has lowered the car too much.. which is the part he didnt mention but with theproper 28-30 mm clearence in the fender and tires, it will be fine
as far as your lame advice for lowering,, you made some mistakes there too,
which I would not care about if you had not been such a dick, and started in with me..
if you knew, the most you can lower mercs using the star method is around 18-19mm and I have verified this, with like 3 mercedes engineers including ones in germany, and here, and also with the mechanics who have done my cars
when you do more like an inch it simply resets itself..
and when you say you need realignment, YOU dont if you do 18 mm using star method, as there is negligable camber change and caster change when lowering less than 1 inch..
and if you really know how to lower the car right, you need to lower the car using the star method while the CAR is on a alignment JIG, for a perfectly level surface so you do not have to constantly redo it, and get a messed up result
I checked this after my car was lowered with the results on the alignment jig pre lowering and it is almost identical.. so you dont really need to realign the car..the the alignment tech who was there as well with me so..
also if you ever read any magazines or tech papers, one just did a huge article on lowering and said you only need to realign when you lower more than 1.25 inches and they interviews like car manufactures and race teams as sources.. lol
you would know that you only need to realign a lowered car is you lower it more than say 1 1/4 inches..
its the guys who lower their cars like 2-3 inches , IE GHETTO that have alighment problems.. most factories allow for slight lowering without major suspension deformation of around 20-30 mm
and when you recommend the renntech LM to him, I guess you forggot to mention it voids the merc warranty, whereas if you get a merc tech at a dealer to lower it its within FACTORY spec which is 19mm, so warranty is still good..
its called ROW spec, or rest of world cause US cars are set like 18 mm higher because of all the traveling on ships, and rail cars they have to do to get to the dealers whereas the rest of the workd mercs are factory set lower
so if you lower your US car to the ROW spec its still within MERC specs and has warranty still..
now granted if your suspension is so stiff like a race car, that suspension travel is NIL, than you can lower a car much lower than the 25mm clearence you need with a normal suspension..
but our cars have a AIR SUSPENSION, which means its stiffness is limited, and softer, and thus is more susceptable to bottoming out, if lowered too much,
cause you cannot compensate the lowering with stiffened springs and shocks.
like you can with a normal suspension
that fact that if took you 4 trips to your dealer to lower you ****ing car, and had to do it 4 times and your tech said it can lower 25 mm tells me he was totally inept, cause it took me like 20 min each time, and the merc tech shows me that when you try to do more than 20 mm it resets because it detects unsafe load and geometry levels.. and voltages so you cannot do it 1 inch or 25 mm which is probably why your tech took 4 F****ing hours to do it, holy crap !
and mine who knew you can only go like 18-20 mm before it resets did it in 20 min.. lol
the other issue is the airmatic compensates for level ground, and adjusts itself, which is why you need to lower it on a alignment rig, or you are gonna eye it wrong.
I would go on and on, but this gets embarrasing for you..
I have owned and raced many cars, with many suspension setups,, including project cars with Bilstein turbo cup Porsches, Vettes and Suspension techniques race cars,raced at willow springs, and have alot of friends that have racing teams as well, having met the likes of Jackie Stewart, ANDI Granetelli, GEorge Barris etc so, I dont like to brag at all, but when you say people dont know what they are talking about, be careful cause some do,, and will make you look foolish kinda like now.
so just give people advice and try to be helpful like I did to that guy, without insulting people or trying to prove you know your right and others are wrong.
when in fact the opposite is true.
peace
Last edited by UBERKAR; Jun 15, 2008 at 04:28 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 3
Mercedes Benz
Wow
your previous post about admitting your not a car guru says it all..
your not.
also are you foriegn or something and have bad english, or you just cant read cause I said like 4 times in teh recommendation to that guy to USE 275's
NOT 285 cause the 285 will rub..
I never said use 285's he said he had them and had problems so I said get 275's since I have the exact same rims as he does..
which you probably DONT even have and are just talking out your ***..
the things you do say are totally wrong .... and your reasons..
I talked to engineers at AMG, MERC, VREDENSTEIN tires, Porsche racing,
and several race teams while researching this, so my data is born out..
the suspension height DOES matter as does the distance between the tires and the fender and wheel well
when you said "Its important to remember that ride height has NOTHING to do with rubbing"
that is probably the most stupid thing I have ever hear and totally wrong.
then you say in the same post contradicting your self and I quote
"A very low riding car with OEM tires and wheels can still rub and cut tires if you enter a driveway with large angles of steering input and have the suspension compress a bit. Its not something you want to risk so having a safety buffer is always ideal. "
that is exactly what I told that guy in my original post, that ride height is a variable and can affect things.. and a safety buffer of like 30 mm is idea. jesus, were you drunk, or just didnt read what I said..
you argue with me in your post and say Im wrong and yet you repeat the same GD thing I said exactly, and also contradict yourself in the process as well..
my god man whats wrong with you.?
think about it, if that were true and suspension height didnt matter why would 4X4 off road vhehicles raise their ride height , so they increase suspension height to prevent rubbing and suspension damage. and yet their tires stick way out past of the fenders and are very wide for stability..
I have been at the BAJA 1000 offroad race with friends and driven some of the cars, have you?
if you knew anything you would know that the distance between the fender and the wheel well is important, and can affect bottoming out and rubbing,, cause if you have an extra 5-10 mm in height, you will likley have extra play not to rub in 98% of street situations, and hard cornering. whereas, if you had a smaller tire like a 265 or 275 that normally clears the rear fender, it will still bottom out, or possible rub if the car is lowered too much..
also, you forget to take into account the aspect ratio of the tires,
a 35 in rear could rub whereas a 30 series may not..
also, you forgot or dont know enough to know that RIM width also makes a difference on rubbing.
in this case with the AMG type 3, its a 9.5" in rear, which is 1/2 inch LARGER than the E class stock of 9 inches..
therefore, when you put a 265 or 275 in the rear, it STRETCHES more over the rim and gives that stretched look, and moreover, then is obviously less TALL slightly and tends to narrow inward a tthe top, so its LESS LIKELY to RUB, than say,fixed amout of rubber streatched over a larger area is less height
the same tire 275 on a 9" rim cause the actualy height is 2-3 mm more, as it is a fixed amount of ribber on a smaller hoizontal surface as it has to stretch less horizontally on the smaller rim, thus reducing its height..
when you COMBINE, the LARGER rim size of 9.5" of the AMG 19" rim, with a 275
with a smaller aspect ration tire of 30 series, it is not tall at all, and in fact narrows somewhat as the height increases, kinda making it go inward slightly.. so it clears..
but the same 275 tire, say on a 9" rim factory not as stretched and say a 35 series
is actaully 14-15 mm TALLER, than the same 275 on a 9.5inch rim in a 30 series..
that 14-15mm will make the difference in rubbing.
this is a fact, measure it, ask a racing team.. I did.. and have.. and tried all sorts of combos.. ask any tire shop or go see for yourself
as far as you asking me if I lowered any mercedes,ever LOL YEAH like 3 of them,
multiple times.. and yes with at least 3 difference mercedes merchanics,
and also a racing team engineer, and it was done with STAR software, and I was there everytime, and seen also like 4 friends do it and helped them..
so your comments and asssumptions are again WRONG WRONG WRONG.
I know how it works alot.
when you say your offset data is tried and true, I dont know if you and some buddies are drinking budweisers and expierimenting, on tires which you call tried and true..
lol but I posted the ET offset data, direct from the website and engineering data and catalog of MERC and AMG..
and I said the type 3 wheels is made different for different cars.. didnt you read my original posts..
I also posted PROOF, right from the AMG data sheets, and PICTURES from AMG with the wheels on the cars.. lol in this thread each seperately on each car..
and I said the e class offsets were different by 5mm than the SL or CLS
here it is again, since you obviously cant read or missed it
and you argued with me when I posted AMG data and then you repeat exactly what I originally posted..
here is the post again so you can see how silly you sound
the S class AMG type 3 is
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1207 9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1208
the CLS and CLS 55 TYPE 3 AMG 8.5 x 19 ET 25, size 245/35 or 255/353 tyres, FA only B6 603 1209
9.5 x 19 ET 28, size 275/30 or 285/303 tyres, RA only
the E class AMG type 3 wheel size and order code is
8 .5 x 19 ET 30, size 245/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1237
9.5 x 19 ET 31, size 275/30 tyres, RA only B6 603 1238
the SL class and 55/65 AMG type 3
8.5 x 19 ET 30, size 255/35 tyres, for FA and RA B6 603 1237
9.5 x 19 ET 31, size 285/30 tyres, RA only B6 603 1238
the CL class and 55/65 TYPE 3 wheel
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1197
9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1198
the S class and s55/65 Type 3 wheel
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1207
9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1208
what you failed to understand between front wheel rub and rear wheel rub is engineering wise and physics wise, there are 2 totally difference reasons and locations for the rubbing, and intereference.
FRONT tires rub either VERTICALLY,due to incorrect offset, in vertical motion
or due to car being too low, and reducing suspension vertical travel etc..
but front tires can also RUb Horizontally, by being too wide, and not clearing suspension components, and interefering with certain geometries that would work for a smaller tire..
I managed to TEST THIS, but using Grease paint, and seeing where the rubbing actualy happens, on difference size tires,
DID YOU , NO.
Rear tires dont turn,, so horizontal is not an issue just vertical and you can compensate potential rubbing, but choosing, a lower aspect ratio,
certain brand of tire,, larger rim with different offset and making sure your car is at proper MIN ride Height
what you also failed to comprehend, is that if the offset if less, therefore making the tire stick out MORE as is the case with the ET 25 in the front,
it is more likely to rub with a larger tire vertically when under load.. on the OUTSIDE, yes,
but its also farther out slightly and may not rub on the inside
necessarily..horizontally as it would with a different offset,
there are so many variable that you failed to mention in your over simplistic BS that you tried to make sound official..
do you even have these exact rims, and tires,, probably not..
I do, so I was speaking from personal expierence and trying to help the guy
with the 25 hours I researched and expierimented with them
did you even know the tires can vary alot in shape so that one can rub with same setup and another may not, somtimes by as much as 2 mm..
ALL i said to that guy was, that the 275 tire will work with the ET 28 CLS55 or SL 55 rim cause I am using it right now on my tires and have grease paint tested it for rubbing, and hit if hard under corners and bumps and it will not RUB PERIOD with a 275.. Unless he has lowered the car too much.. which is the part he didnt mention but with theproper 28-30 mm clearence in the fender and tires, it will be fine
as far as your lame advice for lowering,, you made some mistakes there too,
which I would not care about if you had not been such a dick, and started in with me..
if you knew, the most you can lower mercs using the star method is around 18-19mm and I have verified this, with like 3 mercedes engineers including ones in germany, and here, and also with the mechanics who have done my cars
when you do more like an inch it simply resets itself..
and when you say you need realignment, YOU dont if you do 18 mm using star method, as there is negligable camber change and caster change when lowering less than 1 inch..
and if you really know how to lower the car right, you need to lower the car using the star method while the CAR is on a alignment JIG, for a perfectly level surface so you do not have to constantly redo it, and get a messed up result
I checked this after my car was lowered with the results on the alignment jig pre lowering and it is almost identical.. so you dont really need to realign the car..the the alignment tech who was there as well with me so..
also if you ever read any magazines or tech papers, one just did a huge article on lowering and said you only need to realign when you lower more than 1.25 inches and they interviews like car manufactures and race teams as sources.. lol
you would know that you only need to realign a lowered car is you lower it more than say 1 1/4 inches..
its the guys who lower their cars like 2-3 inches , IE GHETTO that have alighment problems.. most factories allow for slight lowering without major suspension deformation of around 20-30 mm
and when you recommend the renntech LM to him, I guess you forggot to mention it voids the merc warranty, whereas if you get a merc tech at a dealer to lower it its within FACTORY spec which is 19mm, so warranty is still good..
its called ROW spec, or rest of world cause US cars are set like 18 mm higher because of all the traveling on ships, and rail cars they have to do to get to the dealers whereas the rest of the workd mercs are factory set lower
so if you lower your US car to the ROW spec its still within MERC specs and has warranty still..
now granted if your suspension is so stiff like a race car, that suspension travel is NIL, than you can lower a car much lower than the 25mm clearence you need with a normal suspension..
but our cars have a AIR SUSPENSION, which means its stiffness is limited, and softer, and thus is more susceptable to bottoming out, if lowered too much,
cause you cannot compensate the lowering with stiffened springs and shocks.
like you can with a normal suspension
that fact that if took you 4 trips to your dealer to lower you ****ing car, and had to do it 4 times and your tech said it can lower 25 mm tells me he was totally inept, cause it took me like 20 min each time, and the merc tech shows me that when you try to do more than 20 mm it resets because it detects unsafe load and geometry levels.. and voltages so you cannot do it 1 inch or 25 mm which is probably why your tech took 4 F****ing hours to do it, holy crap !
and mine who knew you can only go like 18-20 mm before it resets did it in 20 min.. lol
the other issue is the airmatic compensates for level ground, and adjusts itself, which is why you need to lower it on a alignment rig, or you are gonna eye it wrong.
I would go on and on, but this gets embarrasing for you..
I have owned and raced many cars, with many suspension setups,, including project cars with Bilstein turbo cup Porsches, Vettes and Suspension techniques race cars,raced at willow springs, and have alot of friends that have racing teams as well, having met the likes of Jackie Stewart, ANDI Granetelli, GEorge Barris etc so, I dont like to brag at all, but when you say people dont know what they are talking about, be careful cause some do,, and will make you look foolish kinda like now.
so just give people advice and try to be helpful like I did to that guy, without insulting people or trying to prove you know your right and others are wrong.
when in fact the opposite is true.
peace
your previous post about admitting your not a car guru says it all..
your not.
also are you foriegn or something and have bad english, or you just cant read cause I said like 4 times in teh recommendation to that guy to USE 275's
NOT 285 cause the 285 will rub..
I never said use 285's he said he had them and had problems so I said get 275's since I have the exact same rims as he does..
which you probably DONT even have and are just talking out your ***..
the things you do say are totally wrong .... and your reasons..
I talked to engineers at AMG, MERC, VREDENSTEIN tires, Porsche racing,
and several race teams while researching this, so my data is born out..
the suspension height DOES matter as does the distance between the tires and the fender and wheel well
when you said "Its important to remember that ride height has NOTHING to do with rubbing"
that is probably the most stupid thing I have ever hear and totally wrong.
then you say in the same post contradicting your self and I quote
"A very low riding car with OEM tires and wheels can still rub and cut tires if you enter a driveway with large angles of steering input and have the suspension compress a bit. Its not something you want to risk so having a safety buffer is always ideal. "
that is exactly what I told that guy in my original post, that ride height is a variable and can affect things.. and a safety buffer of like 30 mm is idea. jesus, were you drunk, or just didnt read what I said..
you argue with me in your post and say Im wrong and yet you repeat the same GD thing I said exactly, and also contradict yourself in the process as well..
my god man whats wrong with you.?
think about it, if that were true and suspension height didnt matter why would 4X4 off road vhehicles raise their ride height , so they increase suspension height to prevent rubbing and suspension damage. and yet their tires stick way out past of the fenders and are very wide for stability..
I have been at the BAJA 1000 offroad race with friends and driven some of the cars, have you?
if you knew anything you would know that the distance between the fender and the wheel well is important, and can affect bottoming out and rubbing,, cause if you have an extra 5-10 mm in height, you will likley have extra play not to rub in 98% of street situations, and hard cornering. whereas, if you had a smaller tire like a 265 or 275 that normally clears the rear fender, it will still bottom out, or possible rub if the car is lowered too much..
also, you forget to take into account the aspect ratio of the tires,
a 35 in rear could rub whereas a 30 series may not..
also, you forgot or dont know enough to know that RIM width also makes a difference on rubbing.
in this case with the AMG type 3, its a 9.5" in rear, which is 1/2 inch LARGER than the E class stock of 9 inches..
therefore, when you put a 265 or 275 in the rear, it STRETCHES more over the rim and gives that stretched look, and moreover, then is obviously less TALL slightly and tends to narrow inward a tthe top, so its LESS LIKELY to RUB, than say,fixed amout of rubber streatched over a larger area is less height
the same tire 275 on a 9" rim cause the actualy height is 2-3 mm more, as it is a fixed amount of ribber on a smaller hoizontal surface as it has to stretch less horizontally on the smaller rim, thus reducing its height..
when you COMBINE, the LARGER rim size of 9.5" of the AMG 19" rim, with a 275
with a smaller aspect ration tire of 30 series, it is not tall at all, and in fact narrows somewhat as the height increases, kinda making it go inward slightly.. so it clears..
but the same 275 tire, say on a 9" rim factory not as stretched and say a 35 series
is actaully 14-15 mm TALLER, than the same 275 on a 9.5inch rim in a 30 series..
that 14-15mm will make the difference in rubbing.
this is a fact, measure it, ask a racing team.. I did.. and have.. and tried all sorts of combos.. ask any tire shop or go see for yourself
as far as you asking me if I lowered any mercedes,ever LOL YEAH like 3 of them,
multiple times.. and yes with at least 3 difference mercedes merchanics,
and also a racing team engineer, and it was done with STAR software, and I was there everytime, and seen also like 4 friends do it and helped them..
so your comments and asssumptions are again WRONG WRONG WRONG.
I know how it works alot.
when you say your offset data is tried and true, I dont know if you and some buddies are drinking budweisers and expierimenting, on tires which you call tried and true..
lol but I posted the ET offset data, direct from the website and engineering data and catalog of MERC and AMG..
and I said the type 3 wheels is made different for different cars.. didnt you read my original posts..
I also posted PROOF, right from the AMG data sheets, and PICTURES from AMG with the wheels on the cars.. lol in this thread each seperately on each car..
and I said the e class offsets were different by 5mm than the SL or CLS
here it is again, since you obviously cant read or missed it
and you argued with me when I posted AMG data and then you repeat exactly what I originally posted..
here is the post again so you can see how silly you sound
the S class AMG type 3 is
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1207 9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1208
the CLS and CLS 55 TYPE 3 AMG 8.5 x 19 ET 25, size 245/35 or 255/353 tyres, FA only B6 603 1209
9.5 x 19 ET 28, size 275/30 or 285/303 tyres, RA only
the E class AMG type 3 wheel size and order code is
8 .5 x 19 ET 30, size 245/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1237
9.5 x 19 ET 31, size 275/30 tyres, RA only B6 603 1238
the SL class and 55/65 AMG type 3
8.5 x 19 ET 30, size 255/35 tyres, for FA and RA B6 603 1237
9.5 x 19 ET 31, size 285/30 tyres, RA only B6 603 1238
the CL class and 55/65 TYPE 3 wheel
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1197
9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1198
the S class and s55/65 Type 3 wheel
8.5 x 20 ET 43, size 255/35 tyres, FA only B6 603 1207
9.5 x 20 ET 43, size 275/35 tyres, RA only B6 603 1208
what you failed to understand between front wheel rub and rear wheel rub is engineering wise and physics wise, there are 2 totally difference reasons and locations for the rubbing, and intereference.
FRONT tires rub either VERTICALLY,due to incorrect offset, in vertical motion
or due to car being too low, and reducing suspension vertical travel etc..
but front tires can also RUb Horizontally, by being too wide, and not clearing suspension components, and interefering with certain geometries that would work for a smaller tire..
I managed to TEST THIS, but using Grease paint, and seeing where the rubbing actualy happens, on difference size tires,
DID YOU , NO.
Rear tires dont turn,, so horizontal is not an issue just vertical and you can compensate potential rubbing, but choosing, a lower aspect ratio,
certain brand of tire,, larger rim with different offset and making sure your car is at proper MIN ride Height
what you also failed to comprehend, is that if the offset if less, therefore making the tire stick out MORE as is the case with the ET 25 in the front,
it is more likely to rub with a larger tire vertically when under load.. on the OUTSIDE, yes,
but its also farther out slightly and may not rub on the inside
necessarily..horizontally as it would with a different offset,
there are so many variable that you failed to mention in your over simplistic BS that you tried to make sound official..
do you even have these exact rims, and tires,, probably not..
I do, so I was speaking from personal expierence and trying to help the guy
with the 25 hours I researched and expierimented with them
did you even know the tires can vary alot in shape so that one can rub with same setup and another may not, somtimes by as much as 2 mm..
ALL i said to that guy was, that the 275 tire will work with the ET 28 CLS55 or SL 55 rim cause I am using it right now on my tires and have grease paint tested it for rubbing, and hit if hard under corners and bumps and it will not RUB PERIOD with a 275.. Unless he has lowered the car too much.. which is the part he didnt mention but with theproper 28-30 mm clearence in the fender and tires, it will be fine
as far as your lame advice for lowering,, you made some mistakes there too,
which I would not care about if you had not been such a dick, and started in with me..
if you knew, the most you can lower mercs using the star method is around 18-19mm and I have verified this, with like 3 mercedes engineers including ones in germany, and here, and also with the mechanics who have done my cars
when you do more like an inch it simply resets itself..
and when you say you need realignment, YOU dont if you do 18 mm using star method, as there is negligable camber change and caster change when lowering less than 1 inch..
and if you really know how to lower the car right, you need to lower the car using the star method while the CAR is on a alignment JIG, for a perfectly level surface so you do not have to constantly redo it, and get a messed up result
I checked this after my car was lowered with the results on the alignment jig pre lowering and it is almost identical.. so you dont really need to realign the car..the the alignment tech who was there as well with me so..
also if you ever read any magazines or tech papers, one just did a huge article on lowering and said you only need to realign when you lower more than 1.25 inches and they interviews like car manufactures and race teams as sources.. lol
you would know that you only need to realign a lowered car is you lower it more than say 1 1/4 inches..
its the guys who lower their cars like 2-3 inches , IE GHETTO that have alighment problems.. most factories allow for slight lowering without major suspension deformation of around 20-30 mm
and when you recommend the renntech LM to him, I guess you forggot to mention it voids the merc warranty, whereas if you get a merc tech at a dealer to lower it its within FACTORY spec which is 19mm, so warranty is still good..
its called ROW spec, or rest of world cause US cars are set like 18 mm higher because of all the traveling on ships, and rail cars they have to do to get to the dealers whereas the rest of the workd mercs are factory set lower
so if you lower your US car to the ROW spec its still within MERC specs and has warranty still..
now granted if your suspension is so stiff like a race car, that suspension travel is NIL, than you can lower a car much lower than the 25mm clearence you need with a normal suspension..
but our cars have a AIR SUSPENSION, which means its stiffness is limited, and softer, and thus is more susceptable to bottoming out, if lowered too much,
cause you cannot compensate the lowering with stiffened springs and shocks.
like you can with a normal suspension
that fact that if took you 4 trips to your dealer to lower you ****ing car, and had to do it 4 times and your tech said it can lower 25 mm tells me he was totally inept, cause it took me like 20 min each time, and the merc tech shows me that when you try to do more than 20 mm it resets because it detects unsafe load and geometry levels.. and voltages so you cannot do it 1 inch or 25 mm which is probably why your tech took 4 F****ing hours to do it, holy crap !
and mine who knew you can only go like 18-20 mm before it resets did it in 20 min.. lol
the other issue is the airmatic compensates for level ground, and adjusts itself, which is why you need to lower it on a alignment rig, or you are gonna eye it wrong.
I would go on and on, but this gets embarrasing for you..
I have owned and raced many cars, with many suspension setups,, including project cars with Bilstein turbo cup Porsches, Vettes and Suspension techniques race cars,raced at willow springs, and have alot of friends that have racing teams as well, having met the likes of Jackie Stewart, ANDI Granetelli, GEorge Barris etc so, I dont like to brag at all, but when you say people dont know what they are talking about, be careful cause some do,, and will make you look foolish kinda like now.
so just give people advice and try to be helpful like I did to that guy, without insulting people or trying to prove you know your right and others are wrong.
when in fact the opposite is true.
peace
Owned?
Fat chance. You have no clue about cars at all. Everything you say is bs and false. Its not even worth reading.
Back to e-bay to get more fake AMG badges friend.
I will say one thing. Rubbing in the back and front are different situations. The front wheels as you might have noticed turn so that means its far easier to hit the fender. The rear stays mostly facing the same direction (bushing deflection aside) so it should never rub in the back regardless of ride height.
As you were. Go give more false data to people.
Can you come set up my race car? I mean I am in big need of wrong off-sets, poor suspension tuning and bad tire sizing. Lets see your lap times and cars at willow springs! Would be fun!
PS Dont need to post the amg catalog info again. I read that stuff last year. It has not changed and it says your wheels dont fit on a W211. But keep posting it as we all really want to see cutting and pasting. Its quite special data. Im telling him how to make the wheels work. People have had these wheels on E55's and it rubs up front on the fender lip. Funny how people bought them, used them and then sold them because they did not fit. Guess they were *ss clowns.
Last edited by CynCarvin32; Jun 15, 2008 at 06:15 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
I will say one thing. Rubbing in the back and front are different situations. The front wheels as you might have noticed turn so that means its far easier to hit the fender, especially if you increase overall rolling diameter. The rear stays mostly facing the same direction (bushing and arm deflections aside) so it should never rub in the back regardless of ride height.
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Merc Eclass AMG
[quote=CynCarvin32;2885430]Owned?
Fat chance. You have no clue about cars at all. Everything you say is bs and false. Its not even worth reading.
dude
you a joke and laughable,, you are either a punk *** kid, or just need to get laid or something
real car people and enthusiasts come together to share ideas and help each other out..and trade stories and ideas,, ********s that are all talk and dont know what the hell the are talking about just lurk in forums to flam others and be a dick cause their are too damn ugly or stupid to have a social life..
so they mock others instead of helps them..
the data I posted is all correct and from AMG catalog,, every bit of it and I posted pics of the wheels on their cars,
so when you say they dont fit your just an idiot..plain and simple
no to mention you dont even own the wheels the guy was talking about and I do , so that makes you just a loud mouth RUBE..
I am done talking with you, cause I tend to deal in engineerring fact and you contradicted yourself so many times in your post saying ride height didnt matter.. you just are either HIGH or STUPID or both..
nuff said,, I dont come here to argue with FLAMMERS, and you obviously arrea FLAMMER, from the looks of it, in more ways that ONE lol
I will stick to asking car eengineers and race team techs, and technical white papers for my info, you keep your tried and true HILLBILLY DUKES OF HAZZARD car ideas and stuff them..
your on IGNORE.. no time to listen to rubes
Fat chance. You have no clue about cars at all. Everything you say is bs and false. Its not even worth reading.
dude
you a joke and laughable,, you are either a punk *** kid, or just need to get laid or something
real car people and enthusiasts come together to share ideas and help each other out..and trade stories and ideas,, ********s that are all talk and dont know what the hell the are talking about just lurk in forums to flam others and be a dick cause their are too damn ugly or stupid to have a social life..
so they mock others instead of helps them..
the data I posted is all correct and from AMG catalog,, every bit of it and I posted pics of the wheels on their cars,
so when you say they dont fit your just an idiot..plain and simple
no to mention you dont even own the wheels the guy was talking about and I do , so that makes you just a loud mouth RUBE..
I am done talking with you, cause I tend to deal in engineerring fact and you contradicted yourself so many times in your post saying ride height didnt matter.. you just are either HIGH or STUPID or both..
nuff said,, I dont come here to argue with FLAMMERS, and you obviously arrea FLAMMER, from the looks of it, in more ways that ONE lol
I will stick to asking car eengineers and race team techs, and technical white papers for my info, you keep your tried and true HILLBILLY DUKES OF HAZZARD car ideas and stuff them..
your on IGNORE.. no time to listen to rubes
Last edited by UBERKAR; Jun 15, 2008 at 08:45 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,414
Likes: 6
From: West Michigan
2007 E63
[quote=UBERKAR;2885599]
Yes.
Owned?
Fat chance. You have no clue about cars at all. Everything you say is bs and false. Its not even worth reading.
dude
you a joke and laughable,, you are either a punk *** kid, or just need to get laid or something
real car people and enthusiasts come together to share ideas and help each other out..and trade stories and ideas,, ********s that are all talk and dont know what the hell the are talking about just lurk in forums to flam others and be a dick cause their are too damn ugly or stupid to have a social life..
so they mock others instead of helps them..
the data I posted is all correct and from AMG catalog,, every bit of it and I posted pics of the wheels on their cars,
so when you say they dont fit your just an idiot..plain and simple
no to mention you dont even own the wheels the guy was talking about and I do , so that makes you just a loud mouth RUBE..
I am done talking with you, cause I tend to deal in engineerring fact and you contradicted yourself so many times in your post saying ride height didnt matter.. you just are either HIGH or STUPID or both..
nuff said,, I dont come here to argue with FLAMMERS, and you obviously arrea FLAMMER, from the looks of it, in more ways that ONE lol
I will stick to asking car eengineers and race team techs, and technical white papers for my info, you keep your tried and true HILLBILLY DUKES OF HAZZARD car ideas and stuff them..
your on IGNORE.. no time to listen to rubes
Fat chance. You have no clue about cars at all. Everything you say is bs and false. Its not even worth reading.
dude
you a joke and laughable,, you are either a punk *** kid, or just need to get laid or something
real car people and enthusiasts come together to share ideas and help each other out..and trade stories and ideas,, ********s that are all talk and dont know what the hell the are talking about just lurk in forums to flam others and be a dick cause their are too damn ugly or stupid to have a social life..
so they mock others instead of helps them..
the data I posted is all correct and from AMG catalog,, every bit of it and I posted pics of the wheels on their cars,
so when you say they dont fit your just an idiot..plain and simple
no to mention you dont even own the wheels the guy was talking about and I do , so that makes you just a loud mouth RUBE..
I am done talking with you, cause I tend to deal in engineerring fact and you contradicted yourself so many times in your post saying ride height didnt matter.. you just are either HIGH or STUPID or both..
nuff said,, I dont come here to argue with FLAMMERS, and you obviously arrea FLAMMER, from the looks of it, in more ways that ONE lol
I will stick to asking car eengineers and race team techs, and technical white papers for my info, you keep your tried and true HILLBILLY DUKES OF HAZZARD car ideas and stuff them..
your on IGNORE.. no time to listen to rubes
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,760
Likes: 594
From: Seattle
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
Why are you still here Cyberimage???
OWNED:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211...p-ecu-mod.html
OWNED:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/231080-how-tell-if-amg.html
There were two more threads where he was mercilessly owned as well, but he deleted them in his own embarassment.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 3
Mercedes Benz
DAMN STRAIGHT!! If it rubs when it's dropped, then it is jacked, PERIOD!! You can ride on a car high to avoid it, but it is innevitable!! I see it on the front panel of cars with chrome DUBs from time to time. It just happens and one time is all it takes. You can be on the highway in a turn and come on a dip..........BAM!!!
I knew you would agree with some of my points.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: NJ
2007 E63
Why are you still here Cyberimage???
OWNED:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211...p-ecu-mod.html
OWNED:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=231080
There were two more threads where he was mercilessly owned as well, but he deleted them in his own embarassment.
OWNED:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211...p-ecu-mod.html
OWNED:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=231080
There were two more threads where he was mercilessly owned as well, but he deleted them in his own embarassment.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/242764-my-new-e63.html
Did some of you guys think I was this loser? In any case, I think I'm going to have to post some pics to prove my car is not a rebadged 320
Last edited by teolax; Jun 16, 2008 at 05:38 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 3
Mercedes Benz
I read through the threads and they are hilarious. I think I understand the hostility to my wheels and Jangy questioning my headliner when you couldn't even see the inside (see post 15). Jangy, why not just take a direct route if asking me if my car was a fake? The headliner comment went completely over my head
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242764
Did some of you guys think I was this loser? In any case, I think I'm going to have to post some pics to prove my car is not a rebadged 320
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242764
Did some of you guys think I was this loser? In any case, I think I'm going to have to post some pics to prove my car is not a rebadged 320
If you got it new great selection but not many E63's with the CORRECT off-set 19 inch Style III wheels running around. Nicely done.
Car looks great by the way. Great wheels, great color and great car. If its the same car i kind of helped sway the old owner to get those wheels. I love how the car looks.
UberPoserKing should see your car and realize that your car is exactly what AMG wanted the car to look like with the style III wheels. That is ... if he even had an E63.
Last edited by CynCarvin32; Jun 16, 2008 at 06:46 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: NJ
2007 E63
Get that car used by chance? If it is the car I am thinking about it belonged to a forum user here before.
If you got it new great selection but not many E63's with the CORRECT off-set 19 inch Style III wheels running around. Nicely done.
Car looks great by the way. Great wheels, great color and great car.
If you got it new great selection but not many E63's with the CORRECT off-set 19 inch Style III wheels running around. Nicely done.
Car looks great by the way. Great wheels, great color and great car.
Thanks for the compliments on the car. I'm thoroughly enjoying it...
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
The headliner comment went completely over my head
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242764
Did some of you guys think I was this loser? In any case, I think I'm going to have to post some pics to prove my car is not a rebadged 320
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242764
Did some of you guys think I was this loser? In any case, I think I'm going to have to post some pics to prove my car is not a rebadged 320
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
[quote=teolax;2887276]...I believe he got CLS55 wheels for my car, so I don't think the offset is "correct" as you say. What are the problems I will encounter if they are not the "correct" in the offset?
quote]
The CLS rims will rub even with 275s. You can roll it to fit skinny tires, but not meaty ones. if you like the look (which seems to be what you are into), then just pop some 245s on there and roll...
quote]
The CLS rims will rub even with 275s. You can roll it to fit skinny tires, but not meaty ones. if you like the look (which seems to be what you are into), then just pop some 245s on there and roll...
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: NJ
2007 E63
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: NJ
2007 E63
[QUOTE=jangy;2887283]
I'm not getting any rubbing right now at stock heights (even in sport 2 setting). Are you saying I'll only get the rubbing if I lower my car? I'll probably only do a 1/2" since I'm not in to the slammed look.
...I believe he got CLS55 wheels for my car, so I don't think the offset is "correct" as you say. What are the problems I will encounter if they are not the "correct" in the offset?
quote]
The CLS rims will rub even with 275s. You can roll it to fit skinny tires, but not meaty ones. if you like the look (which seems to be what you are into), then just pop some 245s on there and roll...
quote]
The CLS rims will rub even with 275s. You can roll it to fit skinny tires, but not meaty ones. if you like the look (which seems to be what you are into), then just pop some 245s on there and roll...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 3
Mercedes Benz
I did get it used from a forum member here in NJ. Check the 1,000 post scammer thread that is stickied and you'll see the member on the first page. I believe he got CLS55 wheels for my car, so I don't think the offset is "correct" as you say. What are the problems I will encounter if they are not the "correct" in the offset?
Thanks for the compliments on the car. I'm thoroughly enjoying it...
Thanks for the compliments on the car. I'm thoroughly enjoying it...
I cant imagine that two flint grey E63's have these wheels in NJ. You should be in the clear and free from rubbing. Lower away!
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: NJ
2007 E63
Was the car from YoBalls? I cant find the thread you mentioned but I think we are talking about the same car. If so they are teh correct off-set wheels for the W211. I helped him source and find the best deal on the wheels. They wont rub if they are the ET 30 and 31 like I am thinking.
I cant imagine that two flint grey E63's have these wheels in NJ. You should be in the clear and free from rubbing. Lower away!
I cant imagine that two flint grey E63's have these wheels in NJ. You should be in the clear and free from rubbing. Lower away!
You must have been living under a rock if you haven't seen this:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/244457-scam-alert-fs-oem-mercedes-benz-e63-amg-wheels-tires-package-must-sell-quickly.html
See posts #37, 41, and 53.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 3
Mercedes Benz
Yeah, I bought the car from Yohan (nice guy BTW). That is awesome to know
You must have been living under a rock if you haven't seen this:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244457
See posts #37, 41, and 53.
You must have been living under a rock if you haven't seen this:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244457
See posts #37, 41, and 53.
Im just glad the 2 wheel deals I have done on mbworld worked out well. Its scary.
Lets see your car with the RENNtech lowering module!
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: NJ
2007 E63
HA yes I read that thread but i did not keep up on all 1k posts. Johan is a great guy. He took great care of that car you got a really nice machine.
Im just glad the 2 wheel deals I have done on mbworld worked out well. Its scary.
Lets see your car with the RENNtech lowering module!
Im just glad the 2 wheel deals I have done on mbworld worked out well. Its scary.
Lets see your car with the RENNtech lowering module!
I didn't get a chance to do the module this past weekend. Hopefully this week or this weekend at the latest. I'll post pics when I get it installed.
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Merc Eclass AMG
does someone smell RICE BURNING..?
or maybe its DOG****.. hard to tell..
oh well.. maybe the smell will go away.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,760
Likes: 594
From: Seattle
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
Hey buddy, you realize you're a mockery on this forum? I don't even own a benz and everybody's on my side of your cage poking sticks at you.
