1985mb

Am I the only one wondering how many people are being scammed by a calculator that, apparently by default, capitalizes all the upfront costs into the cap cost.....yet customers are writing checks for those same upfront costs on day 1?

Ldangeli, the person you were dealing with, he's an MB dealer?

ldangeli

Guys, guys, the calculator is a reference point that gives a figure that should be close to what the dealer gives you. Its not a bank or dealer approved application. If you do it right, it does a decent job. YES, this is a MB dealer. A very large one. It's not Bobs automotive. I am failing to see how everyone here seems to think that the numbers given are insanely inflated over other numbers given by other dealers. Its a 90k dollar car. Even if they give 8K off, its still 80+K, with no money down, what does everyone expect to pay? 299 a month? It should be somewhere in the 12+ range a month. That is basic math.

metalica_23

Yep. I'd agree with you. A good deal should get you in the high 11s, low 12s (suddenly I feel like I'm talking quarter mile times). Having said that, $100/month lower than $1,299 is still a pretty good chunk of change, but certainly nothing that I would say is a "scam". And we're still not sure about whether taxes are included on that $1,299 quote, right? I'd assume not, the number is too "pretty" and it's a better sales pitch without the tax built it!

Anyway, the calculator is perfectly fine. If you put in the numbers the way the calculator expects, it spits out perfectly good numbers. It's very basic math and no reason the calculator shouldn't match any contract number perfectly, with the proper inputs.

I think the calculator "attempts" to make it easier by allowing the user to just input the check written as the DP, instead of trying to break out what the real DP actually is. Their wording might need a little improvement, that's all.

ldangeli

Exactly.. I think some people here were trying to make a little more out of it then it was. I am not sure what people think they are going to pay for a car near 100K

Mr Kram

the calculator probably spits out a good ballpark figure. the problem that i have is with the terminology. base cap cost? adjusted cap cost (that is higher than base cap cost)? why does the cap cost reduction not add up with the base cap cost and adjusted cap cost?

the lease calculation is relatively simple. this calculator really makes it confusing.

1985mb

I fail to see how double-counting the upfront costs can be deemed acceptable or "a decent job"

You never answered my question. You wrote a check on day 1 to cover the upfront costs of 35xx. Yet those same upfront 35xx costs are capitalized into your adjusted cap cost, making it higher. Do you not see how this is paying the same thing TWICE?

I'm not talking about one specific deal here. But it's funny how many times your self-servingly insist that 1299 is the best one can do. As if 1199 vs 1299 is a trivial difference. Anyway, moving away from one specific deal and back to the principle of it........

If one pays the upfront costs via check on day 1, and the upfront costs are capitalized (i.e. added) into the cap cost, then that customer is paying twice. That's basic math (In fact, they would be paying more 2x, because the 2nd amount is charged interest)

And no offense, but if one is a 'payment shopper' then one is probably a poor lease negotiator. You mention the dealer "keeps coming back to 1299"..... funny, you think that's a coincidence w/ you saying you wanted a monthly payment below 1300?

The idea is to negotiate just one or two variables, and then the math works itself out. Negotiate the selling price, insisting that you get the buy rate MF. The other inputs (MSRP, RV, etc.) are all static for any given lease length and mileage. A down payment is just an artificial method of seemingly lowering the monthly number, and a poor method at that.

Once you do it this way, you'll see the monthly never comes out to a nice round number like 1299. It could be 1287.34 or it could be 1311.46 but 99.9% of the time, it will not be 1299/month.

Read "confessions of a car salesmen" on Edmunds to see how 'monthly payment shoppers' get screwed, whether it's financing or leasing.

ldangeli

Explain to me where the "double counting" costs come from. The negotiated sale price of the vehicle would be 85K. So your tags, doc fees, delivery, etc are added. Taxes are based on your leased portion of the vehicle, at lease in NJ they are. If you re-read the posts, I didn't write any checks. And Slef-Servingly? What the hell does that mean? You're the only one who seems to think you are getting ripped off. And yes, 1199 vs 1299 is trivial. To me it is. It's 100 dollars. I spend more than that on dinner a night.

You talk a pretty tough game for a guy sitting behind a key board. I never said the lease calc was "the" tool of tools. It is a starting point, an Idea of what to expect when you walk into the dealer. Maybe by me saying that I want to keep my lease payment under 1300 and him making it 1299 is a coincidence. Maybe it isn't. You are talking to me like you think I am 12. And unfortunately I now have to answer you like you are 10. As I've stated time and time again, every dealer I've spoken to in NJ / NY has quoted me a price of around 1200, give or take 100 dollars and 4-7k out of pocket. BTW RV is static per month. Thats it. Everyone of those factors is floating, the only one that isn't, unless the car is specially ordered, is the MSRP.

When i go pick up my Maserati in April, I will make sure I bring you with me to hold my hand and make sure I get the best deal. Stop being a bobo, this post is now being hijacked by an arrogant ***.. YOU.

ldangeli

You know what cracks me up. Half of the individuals proclaiming that this guy is about to be robbed, and swearing that I am making these numbers up, not only don't own an E, they don't own an AMG. Then instead of giving perfectly good examples of their experience with dealers and their deals, pick apart a web based calculator that gives an "example" of what the lease price should be based on the numbers plugged into it. Rather than say, well, it should be this not that, they start spouting off at the mouth with, it's that calculator that sucks, your an ***, you don't know what a lease is, you don't know what to do, your an ***, you can't do math, your stupid, I'm better, blah, blah, blah.

Here is a little homework. Go to a dealer, tell them you were thinking of picking up the E63, looking at a lease, as little as possible out of pocket, what would it cost. Here's another thougth, those that do own E63's and lease them, tell us the deal you got. I know what I pay on my ML63, Range Rover Supercharged, and what I paid for all of my other AMG's. It would be nice to know what you paid for your E63.

1985mb

I'm re-reading some of the posts now...... so what does "out of pocket" mean?

Help me understand this, in relation to the above:

ldangeli

Had I decided to do the deal, I would have had to write a 5k check or really cash, for all out of pocket expenses, means just that. 5k to be applied to all up front costs, which also included a 1400+ down payment (Expenses + Down payment = 5k). I think you are trying to call me out here. Wow, would you like my Sales Guys name and number? You can ask him how many cars I've purchased from this dealer, especially in the last 2 years. Everytime I visit that dealer, it costs me money.

1985mb

OK, so had you decided to do the deal, you would have paid 5K on day 1 (doesn't matter whether it's cash or check) to cover upfront costs of 3514 and a Down Payment of 1486.

However, that upfront number (3514) is being added to your cap cost, so you end up paying it again partially every month:

So am I missing something here, or would you have ended paying the same thing twice (if you had done the deal)?

And btw, the montly lease payment is NOT "Residual minus ADJUSTED CAP COST divided by term" - that is only the depreciation portion of it. There is also the rental/financing portion of the montly lease payment.

metalica_23

Instead of bickering over the other stuff, I'd really like to know if the OP took the deal or not! I think based on what we've all discussed, it was a bad deal. He could snag a deal for about $80 less per month, and not dropped anywhere near $6k at signing. Of course, there's the local convenience, maybe it's colored/optioned perfectly, etc. These all add to the equation and have values that are determined by personal preference. (someone may say the car is "worthless" to me without distronic, for instance). So in the end, a "good deal" is somewhat relative to the needs/wants of the person buying the car.

As for the calculator, I still say that if you put in the correct inputs, it should match EXACTLY what your docs say. There should be no reason for the numbers to be different (again, as long as one can figure out what exactly numbers should be input where...).

ldangeli

So, I put them into this online calc wrong. Oh boy. No, you don't pay it twice. I should've put the total 5k in the "down payment" section as pointed out earlier by metallic.

Of course that gets added to the back end of the payment. Who doesn't know that. Again, did you happen to get a quote or do you own an E63 on a lease? What is your payment? You keep pointing out the faults of my entering numbers given to me by the dealer, into this "funny calc" that gives a reference point, but I am still waiting for your results of "shopping" for an E63..

You're talking semantics at this point, so much so, that you're actually giving me a headache.