Where's the love?? I built the exhaust and intercoolers on Markos car!!!


Larry
SP

 

I thought it was VRP

 

Exhaust??, I thought all it had was an X pipe and Cat delete?...

 

No, I built the ones on Markos car. I think that he is getting them copied and making a few small changes to them. The cores that Marko gave me to use are a bit too big. If we had cores that are maybe 1/2" smaller in both dimensions, clearance would be much better. Once they are copied I think that Marko is going to sell them through VRP?

 

No, we fabricated new 3" SS piping all the way from the turbos, to an X pipe and then to the mufflers.

 

Thank you for posting up this info. You did some great work Where are you located?

 

Well, I am not signed up as a sponsor.... YET, (So I do not want to step over any lines) but we are just outside of Chicago right next to Ohare airport. I built Marko's record setting supra also!!

 

Just to set the record straight, here is what the story is:

The upgraded intercoolers is something that was done by us over a year ago for the SL65 that you see on our website (the quad turbo 1000hp project). The fabricator that we used to build them is no longer available. We knew after doing testing on that car what the potential for power increase was so that is why there was so much interest in me pursuing building these.

Fast forward a few months later and Marko ends up buying a CL65.. Marko and I have known each other for years (since he had his 55). He called me once he got the CL65 and we started brainstorming right away on what to do with the car. I told him about the intercooler project and that was what set the thing off in motion.

Based on the research that was done on the SL65, Marko and I determined a core size, ordered the cores, came up with the blue prints on making them, and ordered ALL the parts. When we were ready to start fabricating the prototypes Marko told me about SP (your company) and that you were a good fabricator.

Marko walked into your shop and handed you all the parts and instructed you on what needed to be built. In this case your role was merely from a fabrication point of view. We designed and came up with the product; you assembled them. Although you did fab up the end tanks to your spec and you chose the locations for the inlets and outlets.

Once the prototypes were complete, Marko started doing some testing, and during this time we had a few concerns:

- One of your end tanks had a crack and leaked and had to be brought back to you for rewelding.

- Your design and placement of inlet and outlet for coolant lines makes it impossible for system to be properly bled unless you use a rear-mounted reservoir tank.

- We discovered driver's side valve cover was grinded down without our knowledge to make them clear the obstruction. Marko discovered this when he went to take them off to check them over.

- The design of the end tanks and overall fitment caused them to hit and tear the hood liner and also caused rubbing against the passenger side strut tower

- The prototypes you built would never fit on a SL65 with the sloped hood.

We have been working for the past few months on improving on the weaknesses of the prototypes and solving all the problems. This is why it took this long before we announced them for public sale.

Our new design has a different core configuration, different end tank configuration, different inlet/outlet configuration. We are also using some CNC'd pieces and have rounded off the tanks so that all the clearance issues are addressed.

When you sit and make comments like : "Marko is going to have them copied by someone else." This is very misleading to everyone here and is completely unfair to Marko and myself frankly.

Just so you know, once we had all the pieces in our hands we were going to bring them to you and also shop them around to some other fabricators to get quoted on the welding and assembly.

What you are posting here is giving people the impression that these were designed, thought up and executed by you which is not the case. This is a VRP product which Marko was instrumental in bringing to fruition.

I hope this clears up the air for everyone reading this.

 

First and foremost.... I do not mean to upset anyone. I just felt it as a slap in the face when we did most of the work and got ZERO mention of any credit.


I have known Marko for 18 years now and built his supra.... Initially Marko told me about his desire to make larger ICs for his car. In fact he showed me pictures of your prototypes and asked me if I could make nicer ones. He did get the cores and brought them to me and said to make them work.... using as much of the factory pieces as you can. He never mentioned to me at that time that he was having me make these as preproduction piece for you to make. It was not until we had one made that Marko sent you a picture and you began talking with Chris about having us make them for you.

Yes, the ICs are too big, I told Marko that but as you mentioned you picked the core size. I had to grind down one tab on the valve cover to make the cores (that you picked out) fit. The grinding seriously took 10 seconds and is nothing more than a tab. The size of the end tanks is the minimum size that you can make to flow properly. Again if the core was a bit smaller, they would have fit much nicer!! The design of the end tanks pipe placement was to utilize the factory hoses which Marko requested. Once we installed bleeder on the tanks, they could be bled just like the factory ones.

I agree that with a smaller core, the design would be different...... I only had so much room to work with!! I think that with a cast end tank, or perhaps a CNC one, fitment would be much better as you said!!

I certainly did not mean to mislead anyone with saying that Marko is having them copied. That is just what he told me... he was going to have end tanks cast etc perhaps by Bell he mentioned and then he was going to sell them through you. That is a great idea as it will get the cost down. Maybe copied is the wrong word? Perhaps produced would have been a better choice?

I never said that I designed, thought up, executed etc them. All I said is that I built the set on Marko's car. He brought me cores and I did the rest. I guess that the design is mine as they look nothing like yours.

Again I did not mean to upset anyone. We just did a lot of work on that car and getting ZERO credit kinda hurts!! I have built the fastest 350z in the country, used to own the title of fasted supra, have the fastest stock IRS corvette, and now have have our hands in this MB. I just think that a little credit is due, that's all!! We have been in business for 20 years now for a reason!!


FYI This picture that you posted about your VRP Intercoolers was taken in my shop on my lift....... so if anyone was being misleading??

 

Larry,

I didn't post anything about your shop because in all honesty you were our "supplier" that we were using to do the fabrication.. I dont normally come on the boards and post up the names of our sources.

To be honest, all you or Chris had to do was pickup the phone and call me or Marko and we could have filled you in and brought you up to speed before you posted on the forum. That would of avoided all the confusion.

 

I have known Larry for almost 10 years now through the Supra community. I can tell everyone that he is a stand up guy and runs a very honest business. His work is second to none and if he takes on a job he will get it done. That is why I'll be sending him my SL65 to do exhaust, intercooler and turbo upgrade. Our goal is 1000rwhp and I have no doubt that we will reach it.

Just to give everyone here a little back round on me, I have one of the quickest 6 speed Supras in the world. It makes close to 1600rwhp on a 3.0 liter engine. You can view my car here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gi9khaEbSY

 

No problem!! Like I said, when I started working on Marko's car.... I was not informed of being a supplier, just trying to make new ICs for it!! Not until we were half way thorugh the job did the notion of supplying these ICs to you get presented to me!!


Like saad said in the above post, we are going to try for 1000RWHP in his car so we will be developing a turbo upgrade package for the car as well as a fuel upgrade and plug and play standalone ECU. Im sure that we can work together and perhaps you can sell some of the products that we develop!!

Chris did just tell me that he has tried to contact you a few times about the ICs and that the last thing he heard was that you would call him when you figured out what Marko was going to do.

Again sorry for the confusion!! Im just glad to be part of making any car fast

 

Larry you fabricated the end tanks as told. The hood liner has to be replaced on Markos car. The passanger side strut tower will have to be painted. I allready repaird the rubbed through harness for the ABC system. The support that you removed from the valve cover was to mount the stock air box. Did you ever think about maybe the car needing warranty work before you took a diegrinder to the motor???

Not to mention you didn't install bleeder on the intercoolers. Which made the bleeding procedure impossible. That burned up the first pump. That after I installed a new pump. A week or two go by and an endtank cracks dumping all the coolant and locking up another pump.

You were asked to do some fabrication. You got paid for it. No one blamed you or made you financially responsible for the short commings of the first set. You could have designed the tank to where nothing needed grinding. Don't tell anyone that making the tanks square was necessary for best flow. Because last time I checked round objects flow better that square ones.

As far as you building a stand alone for a R230. You are way over you head here. I'm 100% positive that you have no idea about the electrical system in benzes. You think you can just plug a AEM in it and its ready. Lol. Do you even know why the R230 (that's an SL by the way) has two batteries. Or why there is no return line from the fuel rail? Do some research before making 1000hp claims.

 

For some reason, I doubt that grinding off one tab support.... the tab is still there and functional, would void a warranty. There were bleeders on the ICs. Those end tanks are as small as possible.... hell the water tanks are not even an inch thick. Not my fault that the cores are too large. Marko knew that and said it would be fine for his car and if we produced them for others then we would use smaller cores!!

As far as the ECU goes.... I am not doing that personally.....

No return on the fuel rail?? LOL wow learn something new everyday!! Where does the fuel go??

Yeah that is way over my head Im guessing that electricity must work differently in a MB?

 

Kids, kids, kids - now let's all play nice. I have the privilege of knowing Larry, DSMED, Victor, and Marko personally - and they are all stand up guys. SP and VRP are both stand up operations with whom I've conducted business with and been very happy with what they have provided. I don't think the forum is going to benefit from bringing this laundry onto it. I think it's best to take this discussion off line and go from there. I enjoy reading drama from time to time, but I think this forum has had enough lately.

Just my $.02

-m

 

+1 Agree with Marcus...Imagine if we put all these brilliant minds and people together...the possibilities are endless. I'd say you all work together and try to finish one hell of a V12 upgrade package.

 

I would recommend that VRP get busy finishing their own quad turbo 1000hp SL before trying to lecture someone on what they do or do not know. I like VRP, and hope to give them a project in the future, but they should put their resources towards the SL project that has been going on for over a year now instead of just using it as a testing platform.

Come on guys, lets see that monster go!

 

Dude, take it easy, no need to get your panties in a bunch. All Larry was saying is that it would have been nice to mention that his shop did all the fabrication work on the car. He never said anything about not being paid and he never insulted anyone. As for the 1000rwhp claims, that was me that made that and not Larry. I've made 1600 out of a 3 liter, I'm very sure I can make 1000 out of a 6 liter. The question is how streetable will it be. That just takes hard work and trying new things, but I know it can be done. Everyone here should be happy that more and more experienced shops are attempting new things on the Mercedes. At the end the owners will benefit.

 

Well Larry goes on youtube and posts up that those are not VRP, they are SP intercoolers. Take it as you will, but that doesn't sound like he just wanted SP mentioned as a fabricator.

1000hp is definetly possible from the motor. But its the rest of the vehicle systems that will make it very interesting.

 

Well they are and I was the fabricator of the ICs The mass produced ones will be VRPs!!

By the way, you did a great job on the water tank install. I was very impressed with the quality of your work!!

 

Larry call a MB dealer tomorrow and as what is list price for a 65 motor. In the last 9 years I have seen MB status8 (void warranty) on vehicles for some weird stuff. If a 65 motor lets go, they will come to a dealer and inspect before authorizing a motor.

The production intercoolers will be the same cores just the tanks are altered. The CL is in my garage apart right now waiting for the first set of production coolers.

The ECU is actually not the difficult part. I have a lot of respect for you Larry. Seen a lot of your work on many supras and other cars that you have built, but you are in for some headaches if you are planning on doing stand alones and what not with MBs.

The fuel return...Well you'll figure it out when Saads SL arrives at SP.

 

Well, I am not doing the ECU as I said.... a team of about 5 guys on the west coast is handling that. They are working on the communication aspect of that now so the new computer can communicate with all of the others in the car. I have just heard bits and pieces of their progress so far. Certainly will be a formidible task as everything is computer controlled on that car adn I am sure that they all communicate via can bus or otherwise.

You have got me curious now as to the fuel system. I never looked closely at Marko's car.

 

The ECU deal on the west coast I am also aware of. No real info on progress from them yet. You are right about EVERYTHING being networked on these cars. Fuel system has no return. Ecu networked to pwm unit at pump. fuel pressure varies based on rpm and boost. Kind of like a overcomplicated electronic fpr.

 

Quite a few cars are going that route now. No more fuel pressure regulators... just pressure sensors and a driver module to control pulse width to the pump. Certainly keeps the fuel system from heating up like on a return system.


Like you said.... getting the car to run on a different computer is easy, however keeping all of the computers in the car happy and communicating properly will be a chore.

 

Thats the theory about fuel not heating up. MB revised the system 3 times allready. Fuel boiling in the rail. lol.