Fr33kn63

For starter I went to the same Dynojet I have gone to for ALL previous runs.
My mods are as follows:
VRP CF Airbox and high flow filters
3" custom exhaust deleted secondary cats and resonator
Thats it for potential performance related items that would affect what the data shows.

Here is my 5th gear pull with my mods. Red is the renntech data and Blue is the MHP data.



While the peak numbers aren't hugely different (peak tq is up 13-14rw, peak hp up 5rw), note the solid gains across the board despite having a richer/safer A/F ratio, and the smoothness of MHP's curve by comparison.
For those that claim that MHP pushes the envelope to make more power/tq, this next graph should end the arguement. Notice how much safer MHP's A/F curve is than Renntech's



Heres the Raw data:

MHP 07_E63_AMG_5thgear_024.drf: 67.61 °F 29.70 in-Hg Humidity: 24 % SAE: 0.98 Average Gear Ratio: 38.95

RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs
2.30 N/A N/A
2.40 144.49 316.18
2.50 152.07 319.48
2.60 163.05 329.37
2.70 173.51 337.51
2.80 183.26 343.75
2.90 194.39 352.05
3.00 202.48 354.47
3.10 213.03 360.91
3.20 221.74 363.94
3.30 233.79 372.09
3.40 243.91 376.77
3.50 252.56 379.00
3.60 262.71 383.27
3.70 273.80 388.65
3.80 283.23 391.45
3.90 292.36 393.72
4.00 302.02 396.56
4.10 312.60 400.44
4.20 320.09 400.27
4.30 327.86 400.46
4.40 332.88 397.35
4.50 337.24 393.61
4.60 341.11 389.47
4.70 343.58 383.94
4.80 354.85 388.28
4.90 363.26 389.36
5.00 366.71 385.21
5.10 376.45 387.68
5.20 382.88 386.72
5.30 392.16 388.61
5.40 396.70 385.83
5.50 401.09 383.02
5.60 403.34 378.28
5.70 404.79 372.99
5.80 406.13 367.77
5.90 411.41 366.24
6.00 412.05 360.69
6.10 409.30 352.41
6.20 410.10 347.40
6.30 413.93 345.08
6.40 413.91 339.68
6.50 411.84 332.77
6.60 414.29 329.68
6.70 409.45 320.97
6.80 412.32 318.47
6.90 404.98 308.26
7.00 400.45 300.45
7.10 318.38 235.53
--------- --------- ---------
MAX: 7.10 414.29 400.46
MIN: 2.30 144.49 235.53

and...

Renntech 07_E63_AMG_5thgear_012[1].drf: 79.11 °F 30.32 in-Hg Humidity: 32 % SAE: 0.97 Average Gear Ratio: 39.00

RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs
2.40 147.00 321.70
2.50 152.40 320.18
2.60 160.93 325.08
2.70 171.99 334.57
2.80 180.94 339.39
2.90 192.12 347.93
3.00 199.22 348.78
3.10 209.07 354.20
3.20 219.33 359.97
3.30 228.30 363.34
3.40 237.88 367.47
3.50 247.93 372.04
3.60 259.05 377.93
3.70 265.51 376.88
3.80 275.02 380.12
3.90 282.26 380.12
4.00 291.79 383.12
4.10 302.42 387.40
4.20 310.25 387.97
4.30 317.46 387.76
4.40 320.54 382.61
4.50 326.43 381.00
4.60 335.54 383.12
4.70 340.79 380.82
4.80 350.14 383.12
4.90 354.19 379.65
5.00 363.02 381.32
5.10 367.83 378.80
5.20 376.56 380.34
5.30 388.06 384.55
5.40 391.81 381.09
5.50 394.16 376.40
5.60 397.64 372.94
5.70 398.17 366.89
5.80 398.21 360.60
5.90 407.00 362.31
6.00 405.51 354.97
6.10 401.62 345.80
6.20 404.15 342.36
6.30 405.63 338.16
6.40 402.47 330.29
6.50 408.53 330.10
6.60 408.75 325.27
6.70 408.15 319.95
6.80 409.16 316.02
6.90 404.99 308.27
7.00 394.63 296.10
7.10 304.53 225.28
--------- --------- ---------
MAX: 7.10 409.16 387.97
MIN: 2.40 147.00 225.28

Fr33kn63

All of the above data were 5th gear pulls....
I will try to post my 4th gear pulls here in a bit....

blackbenzz

Are you happy with these gains?

DFW01E55

Thanks for posting, how does the cost difference figure compared to the gains?

The temperature was 13 degrees cooler for the MHP run. Doesn't that negate the difference in hp & tq?

jangy

Can you give us some driving impressions? Not to be a whack, but couldn't the difference (if any) just be day to day or run to run variability?

TMC M5

How is your finger???

Tom

Fr33kn63

yeah it feels good. We / I have to remember that i was tuned before by Renntech, so I cant expect these numbers to be a HUGE difference. If we were talking stock to renntech or stock to MHP for just ECU I would definetly chose the MHP. Cause with MHP I can also get TCU as well. These numbers above are only half the story. With these little additions throughout my powerband, with faster, smoother shifts I should hopefully see a couple tenths of a second faster in my 1/4 times. And probably trap higher. Only time will tell at MIR, and possibly capital on 11/07.
My renntech tune was strong to begin with... The MHP tune just appears to be stronger and smoother(as the charts show). For me the biggest benefit is the TCU tuning. My shifts are noticably better then before. According to MHP their ECU is meant to work with the TCU. But noone else offers TCU(yet) and MHP doesnt sell it seperately cause they cant gaurantee how well two different tunes would work together.
So in the end, yeah I'm happy. I am looking foward to some track time as driving around these city streets doesnt give me the opportunity to see how good the combo is.

MHP

Looks like the largest difference in peak rear wheel HP is +9.84 @ 4200rpm, greatest difference in TQ occurs at 4000rpm with a gain of +13.44 rear wheel lb/ft. The difference in the area under the curves almost looks like what we had comparing v1 with v2 tuning; v2 having netted me an extra 2.5mph at the track.

MHP

No, SAE correction takes care of that.

TMC M5

It looks like the dynos were corrected so the uncorrected difference would have been greater by 1% (.97 vs .98) That would mean that on a uncorrected dyno the MHP would have been roughly 4hp higher.

Tom

MHP

Um....No.

If you were expecting a larger delta difference remember this isn't a MHP v stock comparison. Renntech is supposed to be the top dog on the market, and we just made more power and torque across the board with a safer A/F ratio.

TMC M5

It seems as though the RENNtech is redlining at 7,100 and the MHP is at 7,200RPM. I thought you moved it higher. Just curious.

Tom

Fr33kn63

Possibly. The car drived noticably stronger. I have only had the tune 4 days now and 2 of which I didnt take it out cause it was pouring here. But while on the hwy It has some noticably stronger feeling to it. Remember i was renntech tuned. So was already strong. What I notice probably the most is the shifting. Feels really nice and snappy and quick. the way I like it.

Soar. Dog didnt know any better. hes over 15 now. Not ready to put him down until its really his time, but he still pisses me off from time to time.

Well if I was going from stock I would feel it to be worth it since with the 63's if you want TCU you gotta get their ECU. After talking with Andy at length about this, I understand why.

Just purely looking at the peak numbers I might start to think about your second statement but when i look at the smoothness of the curve, the a/f ratios, I just dont think so. But time will tell. When the temps warm up in 6 months i can redo this and revisit that. Its getting cold around here and will probably stay that way for a while. If we get an indian summer here soon I will go back.

tuningtechnician

MUCH SAFER AFR!

MHP

Not for v2.

chiromikey

afr's look a bit safer but neither one looks unsafe to begin with. hopefully the same can be said for timing.

Fr33kn63

Your right. They are both well within limits for safety. If MHP had matched the renntech afr's I would have probably seen even even larger hp/tq gain. But again the MHP tune is meant to have safer afr's with even more gains.
Which is what they did.

blackbenzz

Was the renntech tune dyno'd with the secondary cat delete?

Goatspeed

Can someone compare this to stock?

indyjoe

The numbers look good. Congrats!

I guess I'm confused, but I thought Andy was selling TCU separately?

Can you elaborate on the shifting? What "level" did you choose, and how does it feel? Is the shifting the same as before under normal conditions, and just faster/harder under WOT? What about downshifts? Jerky? (not you, the trans)

hooleyboy

I think it should be noted that Renntech could (if they wanted to) get more power out of their tunes. I think they try not to push it to the max so your car does not crap the bed.

Fr33kn63

Yes the mods were the same for both of the data shown. The renntech pull as shown above was done about 2 weeks after I did the exhaust mod. NOTHING has been done since except MHP's tune.

I wish I could. I never did the dyno when it was stock. Pretty much kicking myself for that.

TCU is available seperatly for all platforms EXCEPT the 63 platforms. Again after talking to andy about it I do understand why.

I chose 8 out of 10 for shifting firmness and speed while at WOT. Shifting feels fine when driving around normally. Smooth or maybe even smoother then stock form. No isnt Jerky in my car. Atleast I dont think so.

Fr33kn63

i agree. im not saying I wasnt happy with my renntech tune. I was. I just really wanted TCu tuning. They dont currently offer it and something tells me it maybe will be sometime later next year before that happens. Didnt want to wait. Also Andy promised to make me more power then them. That is why i was willing to give him a shot.

Fr33kn63

FYI-off topic...i really like your c55. I had one prior to my E. Great little cars

MHP

We could easily squeeze another safe 8-12rwhp and tq out of Jeff's tune if we wanted to as well. The point is we're doing more with less. If he adds headers later on (as he may) he won't have to change a thing regarding his tune.

We did decide to sell 63 ECU/TCU tuning seperately recently as there were simply too many requests to turn away. Cost for ECU or TCU only for E/CLS 63s is $2500: https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...light=ecu+only

How much does Renntech charge for ECU only for E63s?