Cooling - at the intake manifold....
11-29-2009, 04:50 AM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Water injection (add some glycol/meth if u really want) but I am convinced this system is the best way forward for IC cooling.
The HFS5 delivers water in a ratio that is calibrated to injector fuel flow and us triggered by boost level. As long as you don't pump too much fluid and as long as it all gets vaporised, it cannot hurt.
I need to just understand how humidity affects combustion. Too much obviously cannot be good, but the great thing with the HFS5 is it's mappable in many dimensions...I cannot see why this system won't work and work well. Too boot it's cheap and a relatively easy install....
The only possible issue is the MAF... Where is it located? I also need to understand how it will interpret the vapour in the air intake stream... Any thoughts...?
EDIT: earlier this year Aquamist introduced the HFS6 which has more accurate mappings and algorithms for water delivery than before...
: smash:
I keep forgetting the car does not have a MAF...... Anyhow the HFS6 needs MAP readings not MAF data.
Now where is the MAP sensor located ?
The HFS5 delivers water in a ratio that is calibrated to injector fuel flow and us triggered by boost level. As long as you don't pump too much fluid and as long as it all gets vaporised, it cannot hurt.
I need to just understand how humidity affects combustion. Too much obviously cannot be good, but the great thing with the HFS5 is it's mappable in many dimensions...I cannot see why this system won't work and work well. Too boot it's cheap and a relatively easy install....
The only possible issue is the MAF... Where is it located? I also need to understand how it will interpret the vapour in the air intake stream... Any thoughts...?
EDIT: earlier this year Aquamist introduced the HFS6 which has more accurate mappings and algorithms for water delivery than before...
: smash:I keep forgetting the car does not have a MAF...... Anyhow the HFS6 needs MAP readings not MAF data.
Now where is the MAP sensor located ?
Last edited by stevebez; 11-29-2009 at 09:22 AM.
11-29-2009, 09:08 AM
#27
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CLS55 AMG
A better radiator and a larger heat exchanger would help. Even the after market heat exchanges are very very small compared to the ones used on Terminators. Way back when in the late 90's when having a high 10 second car was fast. We used to notch the core support on our dsm's and stuff the largest intercooler beind the bumper that would safely fit. In this application it would be a heat exchanger, but if the E class is anything like the CLS there is a very large area behind the bumper core support for a massive heat exchanger.
http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/...ntercooler.htm
http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/...ntercooler.htm
Last edited by Full Throttle; 11-29-2009 at 09:20 AM.
11-30-2009, 10:39 AM
#28
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2004 E55,1969 300SEL6.3,2011 ML350 BlueTec Diesel,2005 ML400 CDI
The constant of the equation is the btu capacity as it relates to the intercoolers. The amount of heat (in BTU's) generated by the latent heat of compression of the kompressor obviously exceeds the capacity of the existing intercolers to remove heat. Either reduce the heat of the discharged air (sonic venturies, air/air intercoolers, etc) or figure a way to install higher capacity IC's. Higher capacity heat exchangers are not going to help without higher capacity intercoolers. Easy in theory only.
Lowering engine temps only makes matters worse. Actually, the hotter an engine is, the more efficient it is. It makes more power, lasts longer, and uses less fuel. Energy will tend to "follow the path of least resistance." If there is a large temperature differential between the combustion gases and the cylinder walls and head, the thermal energy in the gases will flow readily into the cool engine parts. If you reduce that temperature differential by making the engine parts hotter, less energy will flow. A hot cup of coffee in a refrigerator will cool down quickly and will cool to the temperature of the 'fridge -- a big temperature drop. On the kitchen counter, it will cool more slowly and will fall less (only to room temp). In a 200 degree oven, it won't cool at all. Same thing in your engine -- make the cylinder walls hotter and the thermal energy won't flow into them as readily. But that energy still has to go somewhere. Some will stay in the combustion gases and go out the tailpipe, but some will go into turning the wheels. So by trying to keep the engine temp low, you're throwing away perfectly good energy (and money)!
Here's what the late, great Smokey Yunick, a god of internal combustion, said in his book "Power Secrets": "It is easy to see how overheating can be a problem, but I think some racers overlook the fact that it is possible to 'overcool' the engine. Some guys go to great lengths to keep the engine temperature down to 180 degrees. And, though the engine doesn't overheat, they don't realize that they're putting energy (heat) into the cooling system that could be used to produce power at the crankshaft. Running the engine at 180 degrees or less will drop the overall horsepower by 2%-3%. For max power the cooling temp should be at least 200 degrees" Sadie Carnot's 200 year old thermodynamic theory says that cooler air intake temperatures would give improved fuel economy because cooler air takes slightly less work to compress, and if a 140-180 thermostat is used on an old fashioned iron or aluminum intake manifold with coolant cross-over passages there will
be less temperature rise in the intake air as it passes through.
Modern intake manifolds such as the ones on the 4.7V8 and 5.7 Hemi are made of insulating Nylon66 plastic although the incoming air can still pick up heat from the metal walls of the cylinder head ports. The phenolic spacers and insulated intakes pipes help in the E55's. Also hotter oil on cylinder walls has less viscosity and creates less friction against the piston rings - which can also mean better HP and MPG. Theory also predicts that hotter block walls and cylinder heads will absorb less heat from combustion and permit a greater pressure 'push' on the piston.
Lowering engine temps only makes matters worse. Actually, the hotter an engine is, the more efficient it is. It makes more power, lasts longer, and uses less fuel. Energy will tend to "follow the path of least resistance." If there is a large temperature differential between the combustion gases and the cylinder walls and head, the thermal energy in the gases will flow readily into the cool engine parts. If you reduce that temperature differential by making the engine parts hotter, less energy will flow. A hot cup of coffee in a refrigerator will cool down quickly and will cool to the temperature of the 'fridge -- a big temperature drop. On the kitchen counter, it will cool more slowly and will fall less (only to room temp). In a 200 degree oven, it won't cool at all. Same thing in your engine -- make the cylinder walls hotter and the thermal energy won't flow into them as readily. But that energy still has to go somewhere. Some will stay in the combustion gases and go out the tailpipe, but some will go into turning the wheels. So by trying to keep the engine temp low, you're throwing away perfectly good energy (and money)!
Here's what the late, great Smokey Yunick, a god of internal combustion, said in his book "Power Secrets": "It is easy to see how overheating can be a problem, but I think some racers overlook the fact that it is possible to 'overcool' the engine. Some guys go to great lengths to keep the engine temperature down to 180 degrees. And, though the engine doesn't overheat, they don't realize that they're putting energy (heat) into the cooling system that could be used to produce power at the crankshaft. Running the engine at 180 degrees or less will drop the overall horsepower by 2%-3%. For max power the cooling temp should be at least 200 degrees" Sadie Carnot's 200 year old thermodynamic theory says that cooler air intake temperatures would give improved fuel economy because cooler air takes slightly less work to compress, and if a 140-180 thermostat is used on an old fashioned iron or aluminum intake manifold with coolant cross-over passages there will
be less temperature rise in the intake air as it passes through.
Modern intake manifolds such as the ones on the 4.7V8 and 5.7 Hemi are made of insulating Nylon66 plastic although the incoming air can still pick up heat from the metal walls of the cylinder head ports. The phenolic spacers and insulated intakes pipes help in the E55's. Also hotter oil on cylinder walls has less viscosity and creates less friction against the piston rings - which can also mean better HP and MPG. Theory also predicts that hotter block walls and cylinder heads will absorb less heat from combustion and permit a greater pressure 'push' on the piston.
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