Blownbenz

actually it is supercharged. You read much?

skratch77

ess kit on pump gas and 8psi

Improviz

Hmm, something smells....typically you'll pick up about 10 hp per psi. This is 8 psi, which I would expect would give it around 80 more hp for a total of 433 rwhp or so, certainly not 250 more hp....or is there a lot more to this tune than this, like heads, cams, etc.?

Trap speed will tell the tale. If it is truly putting out 602 rwhp, it'll trap in the 130's easy (edit: make that 129+). Which, I predict, it won't.

prodigymb

going by power delivery and curvatures it does appear to be the same car. but i agree that 600whp is a lot. not sure how you came up with 150hp gain.....from that dyno it looks like the peak gain was ~240whp. which is crazy, but keep in mind the 12:1 compression, individual throttle bodys, lightweight engine components, equal flow headers (stock). i am curious now

Improviz

Ack! I came up with it via what you might call "fuzzy math"!! Corrected...but this makes me even more skeptical. You'd have to get 30 hp per 10 psi to get there, which is simply not possible. To hit this level, you'd pretty much have to do a total rebuild of the motor w/new cams/heads, the works...and then, the curves wouldn't match up that nicely.

We'll see, but I don't think we'll be seeing it hit what those numbers would indicate...with 605 hp and a 15% driveline loss, it'd be at about 711 crank, which would give it a projected ET and trap of about 11.2 @ 129.

skratch77

Might be 9 psi,it was posted on another forum.I will look for the thread.Some said 8 and some people said 9 psi.

this engine makes alot of power/l and flows really well up top.That dyno is a stock m3 with just a kit installed.remember that bmw left room in there for the csl and people are getting 30whp gains from just tuning alone. shows how well this engine breaths up top.

people are getting close to 370whp with bolt ons.Sticky from m3forums ran a 12.10@115 with just bolt ons on his m3

edit it was 8psi.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=632455

Improviz

I'm sure it breathes very well up top, but not well enough to violate the laws of physics....and it is simply not credible for 8 psi, alone, to give 250 horsepower at the crank.

As I said: the traps will tell the tale. If I see a 129+ trap out of one of those things, I'll convert, but for now you can place me firmly in the unbeliever camp.

obsidian05e55

The dyno graph is of the upcoming ESS kit, my original post is the Active Autowerks kit. they have yet to reveal dyno numbers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knzC-...layer_embedded

dyno vid

BlownV8

Boost is a measure of the air in an intake tract that the engine can't flow on its own. Think of backpressure in the intake. An engine that flows air extremely well will not have as much boost as one that does not flow well with all other things being equal.

Take the AMG 55 engine. If you do headwork, cams, and headers, your car will make less boost but will make more power with less boost. You really need to look at how the heads flow and the displacement of the engine to determine what boost will do for your engine.

This is a good calculator for power in a supercharged engine. This is not the end all be all but it is a good tool.
If you enter 370 RWHP, 9 PSI, 3 core intercooler, and 92 octane, it calculates the power at around 600 RWHP.

http://www.superchargersonline.com/h...r.asp?submit=1

Improviz

That calculator tells me that that my car makes 700 flywheel horsepower. I took 300 rwhp, which is what the 210 E55s made, added 14 psi (stock boost afaik), 92 octane, 3 core, and it gave me 700 crank hp.

Even using 350 hp, the 210's stock hp rating, it comes up with 660 crank/528 wheel, about 100 more than stock 211's make.

E55Pilot

8 PSI is stock

skratch77

guys we have no idea what flow rates the ess chargers are using,At 9 psi could be the same as another charger at 4psi,we dont know the compressor size and spec ect.

same reason why a gt30r turbo makes 500whp @ say 20 psi(just throwing numbers out there)and a gt45r will make the same power with 15psi.

you cant compare a m3 engine to an amg.the m engine will make more power/psi period,it flows 10x better.The head,cams and headers on the new m3 are nasty and we dont know how much room bmw left up top end with vanos advance on this engine.

maybe its not 9psi but that dyno is making 100whp/1k north of 5k,it really shows how well the top end breaths on this engine.

Using that calculator it seems possible,I did it with 365whp 9 psi and it came out to like 595 and dont forget were talkinf 12:1 compression here,that alone will add some extra ponies.I dont know what the e55 has for stock compression,but it will have a big affect on power if you can get it not to blow up.

SLK55R

I wouldn't be surprised ... I"m running around 7psi and it was more than 110rwhp increase.

Btw I'm glad I was corrected that its a supercharger not Turbo system. I was just surprised since I have never heard a supercharged system with a blowoff valve.

E55Pilot

Just a technicality but a turbo is also a supercharger.

Improviz

I double checked, and it is, I believe, 0.8 bar, or 11.6 psi.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/2030207....but-in-chicago
Car & Driver also had it at 11.6 psi in this article:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...nt+page-2.html

SLK55R

I always thought that exhaust gas powering turbos and belt driven for superchargers had them differentiated enough.

Improviz

Oh, give me a bloody break. You are neither an engineer, nor qualified in any way, shape or form to make such a qualitative statement. 10x improvement? What color is the sun in your world, skratch?

Further, you cite that calculator as if it is the gospel....OK, fine: so again: my car's engine makes 350 horsepower crank naturally aspirated. It runs 11.6 PSI of boost. So using that calculator, my engine makes (interpolating between 11 psi (613 crank) and 12 psi (632 crank) 622 crank horsepower.

Not only that, but I beat Mike Tyson in the ring, ran a 3 minute mile, climbed Mt Everest, and pole vaulted 60 ft. today. Its numbers are simply not realistic.

As I said: when and if I see an M3 with that s/c on it trapping at 129, I'll believe it's putting out 600 rwhp. And fanboyish anecdotes aren't going to change many people's minds either.

Improviz

Correct. Both are *compressors*, but a supercharger is not a turbocharger, and vise versa.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm

E55Pilot

The correct name for a turbo is a "Turbo Supercharger"

Supercharging is increasing the charge air pressure over atmospheric pressure

Improviz

Whatever, dude...you want to go back to WWII days for your verbage, that's fine, but in common usage today, the two are distinct and different terms, one referrring to a belt-driven device, the other referring to an exhaust driven device.

E55Pilot

According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, a supercharger is defined as:
"a device (as a blower or compressor) for pressurizing the cabin of an airplane or for increasing the volume air charge of an internal combustion engine over that which would normally be drawn in through the pumping action of the pistons".
A turbocharger is defined as:
"a centrifugal blower driven by exhaust gas turbines and used to supercharge an engine".

Notice the verbiage. No need to go back to WWII

SLK55R

supercharge and supercharge(r) are not the same.

Improviz

Oh, goody, at long last, a reference. And as seen in red, turbochargers are specified as being driven by exhaust gas turbines. Superchargers, you will note, are not.

Here is another one for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superch..._turbocharging Now, here's a homework assignment for you: find me one automobile manufacturer or publication which uses the term "turbo supercharger" to describe a turbocharger.

Btw, speaking of fact checks: I note that you've yet to provide a reference to back up your claim that E55K motors are 8 psi, stock. I've provided two that list it as 0.8 bar/11.6 psi.

Do you have a reference to back up your 8 psi claim, or were you wrong?

e55 baller

weirdest supercharger i ever heard. Sounds like a wastegate and BOV.

BenzBoy12

It is possible to make more than 10 hp/psi, I know 9FF is making a turbo kit for the CGT and they claim 912 crank hp, 308 hp gain, and I'm almost positive they aren't running more than 10 psi of boost, its all on stock internals. I would imagine the the S85 flows as well or better, it makes more hp/L, and has similar design characteristics. Those guys at AA don't miss a beat.