intellilogic

63 guys, how does this pertain? Only an advantage for SC cars?

Finny

No, these look like air to air type.

More like these, air to water...

Finny

It doesn't for 63's. Two different animals.

dyno

so, how to calculate the optimal tb dia ?

from this pic seems the bigger the better .. it nearly matches the SC intake

[IMG][/IMG]

E55Pilot

When the throttle tip in and low load midrange throttle performance sucks then you went to big

blackbenzz

Will it work for a 01 CLK55? If so, sign me up. The car will go super lean with such a big jump, hope youtune it or watch afrs

Zax63

Thats better. Thanks.

Finny

Yeah, it would go lean in a N/A application but not F/I.

55 chambers make the most power at 11:1 afr.

jikjak

good stuff! i cant wait to see how it turns out!
im glad i didnt order the 80mm TB kit yet.

a couple questions.
will there be a way for me to still use my VRP CFairbox with this setup?

will i require retuning for this large TB? (currently have kleeman k2 flash)

MHP

With regard to a positive displacement blown app you want the largest possible TB you can fit on the blower, and overall the least possible restriction on the inlet side; meaning a large dia inlet tube(s) and massive filter(s).

MHP

LOL.

Finny

Correct, but unfortunately awaiting after the puffer is a very restrictive cooler which will counter any attempt to increase flow.

The key is to remove the restriction...

blackbenzz

I dunno if this is accurate but I heard the Kleemann cooler i larger, but on my car i'm running a stock N/A CLK55 TB NEED A BIGGER ONE!

VRP, MHP, Kleemann, Renntech, whatever. I dont care, someone make something!

jikjak

by inlet tube, do u mean the mouth of the airbox that connects to the TB?

V12Godspeed

LOL...the man is desperate! Get him his TB now....I hear you ahmad!

waxking1

I bet Renntech's 82 would be nice. Going from a 78 to an 82 is over 10.5 percent increase in area.

blackbenzz

Yes please! Before March 1st I need to keep up with Nate lol

MHP

The key is to remove as much restriction as possible on the inlet side (which the coolers are). They may be the largest restriction but a larger TB, inlet tubes, and filters would still gain power.
The bellows of an AMG 80mm TB are tiny as well.

E55Pilot

Everything you can do to help flow is a good. Even with the "Restrictive" Intercooler.

Everything you do to remove pressure drop up stream of the supercharger will reduce the temp rise at the discharge of the Supercharger. Thats where the horsepower increase comes from

Finny

This is true but how much extra Hp is achievable by opening up the inlet ?... not that much considering the amount of cash you have to throw at the problem. A new 90mm TB costs x amount of $ for how much HP?

In my opinion only... opening up the cooler and shutting down the BP valve would yield massive gains compared to what minor inlet mods would do.

Those with NA setups would yield the best gains from a larger TB mod.

Proof? don't believe me, just check DTM and SLR figs which use similar heads and bottom end. Just the induction is altered.

E55Pilot

I think the order that you should look at things are, Close the bypass valve first. That has to be done no matter what. I'm betting that much of the pressure drop being seen is actually boost going out the bypass.

Then open up the TB as big as possible

THEN deal with the intercooler, that mod is going to make the TB look cheap!

Thinking about it the ECU MIGHT be limiting total load with the bypass valve. We might be off the ECU's Mathmotor map wrt the intake manifold pressure sensor... It would explain the ripsaw we see in Finny's logs.

Havoc

I agree with you Finny.
What's the point of building new intake parts now to achieve small gains when the main restriction is the stock cooler. Ideally we should be focused on building new Intercoolers first, then build the new intake mods around them.

MHP

Gents I don't care what kind of car you're talking about, if it uses a PD blower opening up the inlet will gain power. The cooler may be the largest restriction, but that doesn't mean there aren't gains to be had with larger inlet, tb, filters.
Is anyone even doing anything for a 55k as far as intercoolers go? If not or until someone does you have to pick up power where you can, and the fact is inlet restrictions yield greater gains than exhausts or any other mod less a pulley in a PD app.
I agree with E55Pilot in that the cost of quality aftermarket intercoolers is going to trump the TB.

MHP

TBs gain more power when paired with a PD blower than they do in any other application (N/A, turbo, nitrous, centrifugal supercharger).

Finny

If we are talking about bang for buck... The software approach to shut the BP is the obvious choice compared to a TB upgrade and or induction mods.

I'm quite sure some of the Innovative after market suppliers are working on the problem right now and a proven solution should be available within 4 to 6 weeks.