W211 AMG Discuss the W211 AMG's such as the E55 and the E63
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

>>>LET High-Stall Torque Converter (HSTC)<<<

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.
 
Old 01-29-2009, 10:47 PM
  #26  
Out Of Control!!
 
blackbenzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,487
Received 94 Likes on 77 Posts
haters crazy
Originally Posted by bassn_07
What should we expect to pay for install and is there any kind of warranty?
You have to pull the trans so not cheap
Old 01-30-2009, 12:45 AM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
Jspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore/Central London UK
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
E63 biturbo
Will this be a liability on cars which already have traction problems accelerating in 1st gear? If not I am interested in 2 units, both for CLS55s
Old 01-30-2009, 02:28 AM
  #28  
Super Member
 
nrgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 869
Received 35 Likes on 15 Posts
AMG GT-R
Originally Posted by Jspeed
Will this be a liability on cars which already have traction problems accelerating in 1st gear? If not I am interested in 2 units, both for CLS55s
I'm wondering the same thing. If we already have trouble hooking up from a standstill, how will this help improve 60' ETs? Or perhaps this is a mod for the people running DRs?
Old 01-30-2009, 04:26 AM
  #29  
Super Member
 
NSX2NV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Springfield, Missouri
Posts: 586
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
03' E55 Techtite Grey
Seems like a good mod. Can't wait to hear more about install price.
Old 01-30-2009, 08:42 AM
  #30  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
e55 baller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
W221 S65 AMG
When most folks launch its at 800-1200 rpms and times as low as 1.65 are generally cut. So if the torque converter is set to 1500 rpms or more (likely to snap axels) basically the extra torque at 1500 over 1000 is enough to generate a 0.2-0.4 (per LET) drop in ETs from an extra 50 wtq. Seems optimistic? Do I understand this correctly?

Also why would a torque converter lower 60-130mph times? I don't understand that once the car is rolling.

Originally Posted by ChicagoX
I was afraid that this would happen, but after much R&D the drivability is AMAZING !!!

Jamusa told me that his Mercedes Tech, after putting on 100+ break-in miles on his car, asked if the unit was modded at all. You can tell he didn't stomp on it.

If anything, my modded car is less twitchy around town than it was....more stock-like in that regard. A firmer stab at the pedal an all hell breaks loose.




1.67 60-foot to 1.5x 60-foot, with over 3/4 tank of gas (duh) and snow tires on the front.

I went to a track rental down South, and was running late for the track. This meant that there was no time for a swap out of the snows. At the last fill-up, I also forgot to NOT put gas in my car, and ended up with waaaaay too much fuel.

The 60-130 times were done with a GTech ProRR, averaged over 9 runs with each setup. I thought I had done 10 before the HSTC, but there was only data for 9

I think the advantage from a roll is compounded - hence the difference between the track times and roll-on times. The car simply jumps out now when hammered...like it dropped 5 passengers.

Best - mod - ever. (Comicbook Guy voice)
Old 01-30-2009, 08:51 AM
  #31  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
bobgodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,763
Received 40 Likes on 34 Posts
2004 E55
Torque Converter Science

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ers/index.html

...It took the addition of a small device called the stator to increase the efficiency of the fluid coupling and transform it into a torque converter. The stator redirects fluid from the turbine to the impeller, radically increasing the force of the fluid entering the impeller and multiplying the torque input from the engine. Basically, the fluid exits the center of the turbine and is redirected by the stator back into the impeller. This is a very slick trick and can be worth up to 2.5 times engine torque! This means that at a 2:1 torque multiplication ratio, an engine that is making 300 lb-ft of torque at a stall speed of 2,500 rpm will actually apply 600 lb-ft of torque to the input shaft of the transmission as the car leaves the starting line.

This sounds really great, and it is. But the catch is that this torque multiplication doesn't last very long. The multiplication factor is based on the speed difference between the turbine and impeller. At stall speed, the impeller is spinning at engine rpm and the turbine is stopped. This creates the greatest speed difference between the turbine and the impeller and therefore the maximum torque multiplication. Once the brakes (or the transbrake) is released and the vehicle begins to move, the turbine spins up and the speed difference between the two diminishes. Generally, by the time you reach the 60-foot mark on the dragstrip, torque multiplication is effectively eliminated and the turbine and impeller speeds are close to achieving what converter manufacturers call coupling speed.
Old 01-30-2009, 09:09 AM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
BlackOnBlackCLK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Philadelphia area
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
2001 clk55 AMG
Originally Posted by NSX2NV
Seems like a good mod. Can't wait to hear more about install price.
The install will cost $800-$1000...
Old 01-30-2009, 11:52 AM
  #33  
Junior Member
 
sfkarp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago area (Plainfield)
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
2004 E55 White
What is the stall speed raised to? The stock stall seems to be about 1200 RPM. I have played with higher stalls before and they do work wonders. IMHO anything over 2000 RPM's makes your car drive like a snowmobile.
Old 01-30-2009, 11:57 AM
  #34  
Junior Member
 
Amen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
e55
I am Interested!

PM me I want a pulley, HE and pump, tune and a Stall Converter

Last edited by Amen; 01-30-2009 at 11:59 AM.
Old 01-30-2009, 12:38 PM
  #35  
Former Vendor of MBWorld
 
ChicagoX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In a box
Posts: 2,513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
W211 E55
Originally Posted by e55 baller
When most folks launch its at 800-1200 rpms and times as low as 1.65 are generally cut. So if the torque converter is set to 1500 rpms or more (likely to snap axels) basically the extra torque at 1500 over 1000 is enough to generate a 0.2-0.4 (per LET) drop in ETs from an extra 50 wtq. Seems optimistic? Do I understand this correctly?

Also why would a torque converter lower 60-130mph times? I don't understand that once the car is rolling.
In addition to getting you a bit higher in the powerband, the actual torque multiplication is increased to the wheels.

I wasn't expecting the roll-on benefits-the stall must be flashing when I hit it, since the car jumps forward much harder than before.

Originally Posted by sfkarp
What is the stall speed raised to? The stock stall seems to be about 1200 RPM. I have played with higher stalls before and they do work wonders. IMHO anything over 2000 RPM's makes your car drive like a snowmobile.
The stall speed has been bumped from about 1800 to around 2600, depending on the amount of torque your car produces. It will stall higher with slicks than with street tires, but drivability is FANTASTIC. No slipping feeling, no sloppy pedal....this mod is amazing. If anyone in the Chicagoland area would like to drive my car, I'm more than happy to accommodate.

Originally Posted by NSX2NV
Seems like a good mod. Can't wait to hear more about install price.
I was charged 7.5 hours of labor ($600), plus fluids.
Old 01-30-2009, 10:38 PM
  #36  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
ProjectC55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: City with Tall buildings!
Posts: 5,475
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Originally Posted by blackbenzz
No, you will just lurch forward and hear clank clank clank

Torque converters in general allow you to launch higher in the rpm range and therefore launch harder. Definite gains in the 1/4 mile if your drivetrain can handle the abuse. Some negatives are: decreased gas mileage and a sloppier feeling pedal under the stall speed. The car will rev but the car feels like the trans is slipping kinda. Then it hits the stall speed and just grabs and goes. Th eharder you launch, the more stress you put on parts. This is exactly why I break so many axles. Anything above 1500rpm launch and my axles snap like twigs. My axles are probably much smaller than the other models but also remember that it is much lighter and making wayyyy less power.

It will be interesting to see how these cars handle the harder launches
Ahmad,try getting axles built by the DriveShaft SHOP. Google them,that's where alot of high hp cars get there axles built. If not,then sell me your tq converter.
Old 01-31-2009, 01:42 AM
  #37  
Out Of Control!!
 
blackbenzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,487
Received 94 Likes on 77 Posts
haters crazy
Originally Posted by ProjectC55
Ahmad,try getting axles built by the DriveShaft SHOP. Google them,that's where alot of high hp cars get there axles built. If not,then sell me your tq converter.
Yea I talked to Frank at DSS. I have to send him an axle to look at and should cost around $2k. I'm saving up for a down payment on a house so mods are on the backburner for now.
Old 01-31-2009, 12:02 PM
  #38  
Member
 
HYEPWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 246
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
2011 Black C63 Eurocharged V5
Originally Posted by Exotic-metal55
It is about time! Count me in.. Maybe you could have mine set up a little looser over the average run..hehe I like mine loose!

No doubt, will be one of the best mods to come our way yet..

+ 1 one on improving drivability..
Exotic---you finally got your wish aye?

Higher stalls are great with 2 caveats.....

1-They increase tranny temps......and high tranny temps are what kill trannies. It would be very interesting to track tranny temps before and after this mod. I doubt it would make a huge difference---but if you are running the car in a high temp environment and beating on it--->it may really hurt the tranny. I recall Finny (who has a stock tranny but a high HP car) said his 2003 tranny was badly heat warped when he took it apart. Nothing a larger tranny cooler cant fix. Im sure you guys have watched this...any data?

2-TRACTION--these cars make so much low end torque. I have 285's on the back and my STOCK car cant take full gas. I cant imagine what a pulley/header/tune with a TC is like. Your traction control light must flash like a disco ball.
Old 01-31-2009, 12:14 PM
  #39  
Senior Member
 
BlackOnBlackCLK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Philadelphia area
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
2001 clk55 AMG
Originally Posted by HYEPWR
Exotic---you finally got your wish aye?

Higher stalls are great with 2 caveats.....

1-They increase tranny temps......and high tranny temps are what kill trannies. It would be very interesting to track tranny temps before and after this mod. I doubt it would make a huge difference---but if you are running the car in a high temp environment and beating on it--->it may really hurt the tranny. I recall Finny (who has a stock tranny but a high HP car) said his 2003 tranny was badly heat warped when he took it apart. Nothing a larger tranny cooler cant fix. Im sure you guys have watched this...any data?

2-TRACTION--these cars make so much low end torque. I have 285's on the back and my STOCK car cant take full gas. I cant imagine what a pulley/header/tune with a TC is like. Your traction control light must flash like a disco ball.
In my experience with higher stall torque converters under 3000 stall will only slightly raise trans temps so this 2600 stall will be very safe imho. I have run as high as 5500 stall in street car for years and never had any trans problems.

Last edited by BlackOnBlackCLK; 01-31-2009 at 12:21 PM.
Old 01-31-2009, 12:21 PM
  #40  
Out Of Control!!
 
blackbenzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,487
Received 94 Likes on 77 Posts
haters crazy
Originally Posted by HYEPWR
Exotic---you finally got your wish aye?

Higher stalls are great with 2 caveats.....

1-They increase tranny temps......and high tranny temps are what kill trannies. It would be very interesting to track tranny temps before and after this mod. I doubt it would make a huge difference---but if you are running the car in a high temp environment and beating on it--->it may really hurt the tranny. I recall Finny (who has a stock tranny but a high HP car) said his 2003 tranny was badly heat warped when he took it apart. Nothing a larger tranny cooler cant fix. Im sure you guys have watched this...any data?

2-TRACTION--these cars make so much low end torque. I have 285's on the back and my STOCK car cant take full gas. I cant imagine what a pulley/header/tune with a TC is like. Your traction control light must flash like a disco ball.
1- This is why I had a trans cooler installed at the same time.

2- Anything below 60mph and full throttle will result in my car going sideways on street tires. The cold temps outside are partially to blame though. It's quite fun! I keep traction control off most of the time
Old 01-31-2009, 01:29 PM
  #41  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
bassn_07's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
2006 E55 AMG
My biggest concern with this mod is daily drivabilty. I asked a few members for their opinions on this mod and they all basically said the same thing "daily drivability will suffer". They do all agree that it will definitely help in 1/4 mile but that's about it. This is the one thing holding me back right now and if I could get a little more reassurance I would pull the trigger. I actually already have a install lined up if I do get it.
Old 01-31-2009, 02:06 PM
  #42  
Super Member
 
jamusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 504
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I dont know who or which member you have spoken to regarding driveability,but speaking from personal experience i've found the car to drive much better than before.I must admit that i was a little skeptical at first,because i wanted enhance performance along with good driveability,i turned out to be much better....i have logged on close to 3000 miles on the car,and cant tell its there unless you get into it,then all hell break loose...night and day difference.
Old 02-01-2009, 11:48 AM
  #43  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
chawkins2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,659
Received 67 Likes on 56 Posts
2006 E55 AMG
i want one

Originally Posted by MJ50
Yes! I'm interested in the HSTC !!!
(55K cars only - 63's PM me)

1) loungin14
2) 01bolt
3) MJ50
4) chawkins2001
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

will it also improve shifting response?

.
Old 02-01-2009, 02:02 PM
  #44  
Super Member
 
mkonei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Delran, NJ
Posts: 695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
05 C55
1000 is steep for a converter, even though its a benz. is anyone using this?? http://www.importperformancetrans.com/722.6.shtml
Old 02-01-2009, 02:32 PM
  #45  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
bassn_07's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
2006 E55 AMG
Originally Posted by jamusa
I dont know who or which member you have spoken to regarding driveability,but speaking from personal experience i've found the car to drive much better than before.I must admit that i was a little skeptical at first,because i wanted enhance performance along with good driveability,i turned out to be much better....i have logged on close to 3000 miles on the car,and cant tell its there unless you get into it,then all hell break loose...night and day difference.
Is it a possibility that you're just use to it after 3,000 miles? If you would get into someone elses car without the converter do you think you feel a noticeable difference then. Not trying to be negative but just more concern with how my daily driving characteristics will be after install. Trust me, I really want this mod but don't want to fully sacrifice my throttle response at the lower RPM's. Do any of you guys that have this installed use a sprint booster? Would this help bring back that lost throttle response if there was loss? Thanks.
Old 02-01-2009, 02:38 PM
  #46  
Out Of Control!!
 
blackbenzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,487
Received 94 Likes on 77 Posts
haters crazy
Originally Posted by mkonei
1000 is steep for a converter, even though its a benz. is anyone using this?? http://www.importperformancetrans.com/722.6.shtml
Yes, at least three of us on this forum have that converter. Their customer service is HORRIBLE though.
Old 02-01-2009, 03:01 PM
  #47  
Super Member
 
mkonei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Delran, NJ
Posts: 695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
05 C55
Originally Posted by blackbenzz
Yes, at least three of us on this forum have that converter. Their customer service is HORRIBLE though.
thats a shame....theyre local to me, plus i just hit 50k and wanted a trans service...thanks for the heads up!
Old 02-01-2009, 03:15 PM
  #48  
Super Member
 
Tech-Tune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ/Greece
Posts: 952
Received 9 Likes on 5 Posts
2006 CLS55 & 2002 SL55 (R129) Silver Arrow
Originally Posted by blackbenzz
Yes, at least three of us on this forum have that converter. Their customer service is HORRIBLE though.
Hey Ahmad,
What did you raise your torque converter's stall to?
Is it at 2600 like LET's, or is it higher?
Old 02-01-2009, 04:03 PM
  #49  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
aleksandar1099's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 2,195
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes on 2 Posts
Mercedes
So I took up wayne's (chicagox) offer on taking his car for a ride. I have to say that I am completely amazed!

Firstly, drivability is very good. I know that with my modded car, I get some jerkyness off of the line, after driving wayne's car it is completely gone! It is nearly impossible to tell that it is installed in the car under normal driving, but once you get on the gas it is just incredible fast!

Secondly, the stall is set perfectly for the car. The power comes in smoothly but definetlly noticable! The car hauls like crazy at speed. We spun tires all the way through 70mph!!!! I have driven stage 5 renntech cars and they do not even compare to the power wayne's car can put down.

The car drives like stock with the new converter.

I will be getting one for sure!

Thanks again to Wayne for the ride and the future new torque converter!
Old 02-01-2009, 04:53 PM
  #50  
Out Of Control!!
 
blackbenzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 13,487
Received 94 Likes on 77 Posts
haters crazy
Originally Posted by mkonei
thats a shame....theyre local to me, plus i just hit 50k and wanted a trans service...thanks for the heads up!
Yea, I was disappointed as well
Originally Posted by Tech-Tune
Hey Ahmad,
What did you raise your torque converter's stall to?
Is it at 2600 like LET's, or is it higher?
I cant remember right now, I think it was 2600, but may be 2800


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.

Quick Reply: >>>LET High-Stall Torque Converter (HSTC)<<<



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:38 AM.