180 mm Pulley ad AIT Problem
03-12-2009, 07:02 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
I dont know if it is normal....My car is stock and the most Ive done is blast to 140mph. He is talking about cruising at 165mph(270km/h) and then accelerating to 185mph(300km/h)....so thats another ballgame. I have measured my car on those blasts to 140mph and I can tell you that anything over 12 secs at full throttle and your AIT's go skyhigh. Just a quick math in my head....it takes me ~10 seconds to go from 100mph(160km) to 140mph(225KM/H)....like I said--10 to 12 secs and the IC is done cooling. If he is accelerating to 165mph(270km) I bet thats another 10 secs. Thats 20-24 sec full blast. 90*C at that point "SEEMS" preety accurate----although---120*C seems very high.
Datalog CLS 55 AMG
Surrounding conditions during the test:
Outside Temp: 32*C (90F)
AC: on
Oiltemp. Engine: 103*C - 115*C
Coolant temp: 90*C - 96*C
IAT during test: 48*C - 50*C
Driving Datas:
1. "Cruising" Temperatures:
City 120km/h permanent speed CAT: 48*C CAT: 48*C
Highway 140km/h permanent speed CAT: 47*C IAT: 48*C
Highway 215km/h permanent speed CAT: 52*C IAT: 49*C
2. Acceleration Temperatures:
0km/h, CAT:48*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 60*C, IAT: 49*C
CAT drops back to 53*C very fast, reach 49*C after 1min
0km/h, CAT: 49*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 210km/h, CAT: peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C
CAT drops back to 58*C very fast, reach 48* after 1,45 min
0km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 49*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 70*C, IAT: 49*C
CAT drops back to 53*C very fast, reach 49*
0km/h, CAT: 47*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 69*C, IAT: 50*C
CAT drops back to 52*C very fast, reach 49*C after 1,20min, peak boost: 1633hpA
3. Rolling Start Temperatures:
60km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 49*C --- 250km/h, CAT peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1613 hpA
100km/h, CAT: 49*C, IAT: 49*C -- 260km/h, CAT: peak 76*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1689hpA
100km/h, CAT: 46*C, IAT: 48*C -- 220km/h, CAT: peak 72*C, IAT: 49*C, peak boost: 1675hpA
60km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 48*C --- 240kmlh, CAT: peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1674hpA
03-12-2009, 07:23 PM
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
my car is black, so naturlay that adds magical hp to it 
and the answer (no)
I will need to re-do the data log as that was a few months back to see what the results are now, but you have to understand I live in one of the hottest places on earth, so thats why I was ??? with your results in -5 weather!!!!
but thats what i got then so maybe it can help you compare
and the answer (no)I will need to re-do the data log as that was a few months back to see what the results are now, but you have to understand I live in one of the hottest places on earth, so thats why I was ??? with your results in -5 weather!!!!
but thats what i got then so maybe it can help you compare
03-12-2009, 07:35 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
zod did u upgrade your cooling system?
if so what cooling upgrade did u do?
also what are your engine mods?
fredxxx: please keep us posted on your IATs after u change the cooling pump.
if so what cooling upgrade did u do?
also what are your engine mods?
fredxxx: please keep us posted on your IATs after u change the cooling pump.
03-12-2009, 07:49 PM
#30
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E55 211
OK, in oem it is no problem...
also on a 172 mm pulley you get no problems ...
but your data is verry intresting !!!
which software do you use for the logging ?
also on a 172 mm pulley you get no problems ...
but your data is verry intresting !!!
which software do you use for the logging ?
03-12-2009, 07:56 PM
#31
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having been through your issues and tried everything.
First.. yes do my the CM30. You will need it eventually.
Get 1 HE from Code3, LET, VRP ect...
and you will need a TUNE.
Believe it or not. Your timing must be going crazy when you car hits over 65C.
I drove the car with a bigger HE and Pulley for about 1 year. Granted I never pushed the car past 120mph.. I had IAT's under control.. but my engine timing was a mess.
You will NEVER get the FULL performance of that 180mm pulley unless you tune the car.
BTW: Hitting 300km will spike any IAT readings nor matter if you have SLR intercoolers and a bag of ice. Its the recovery what is the real key to IAT.
spiking is not bad.. as long as the car recovers in seconds not minutes of cruising speeds.
First.. yes do my the CM30. You will need it eventually.
Get 1 HE from Code3, LET, VRP ect...
and you will need a TUNE.
Believe it or not. Your timing must be going crazy when you car hits over 65C.
I drove the car with a bigger HE and Pulley for about 1 year. Granted I never pushed the car past 120mph.. I had IAT's under control.. but my engine timing was a mess.
You will NEVER get the FULL performance of that 180mm pulley unless you tune the car.
BTW: Hitting 300km will spike any IAT readings nor matter if you have SLR intercoolers and a bag of ice. Its the recovery what is the real key to IAT.
spiking is not bad.. as long as the car recovers in seconds not minutes of cruising speeds.
03-12-2009, 08:01 PM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
non of the members liked it when i posted it...said it was too complicated
car is not OEM
used MB star tool
I have evo cooling kit
my adivce do not go with larger crank pulley then 175mm
If you have 172mm then try it again and run same test to see if it is any different....removing must be a ***** though :-/
you should all stop talking about cars because it will just make me want to get dressed and go back out for a little bit of fun driving and its late 3am!!
i best go watch somthing i just downloaded
03-12-2009, 08:16 PM
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
therefore he is already OK as he says it takes only 10 sec to recover .. while continuing "cruising" at 270kmh LOL
I wonder how can he get 300kmh with 85-90 IAT and the corresponding timing retard .. should have a mass amount of spare ponies
btw, Fred, how much HP has your car?
I wonder how can he get 300kmh with 85-90 IAT and the corresponding timing retard .. should have a mass amount of spare ponies
btw, Fred, how much HP has your car?
03-13-2009, 04:29 PM
#34
Member
Zod,
What is "CAT" in your data?
What is "CAT" in your data?
hmmm here is my test
Datalog CLS 55 AMG
Surrounding conditions during the test:
Outside Temp: 32*C (90F)
AC: on
Oiltemp. Engine: 103*C - 115*C
Coolant temp: 90*C - 96*C
IAT during test: 48*C - 50*C
Driving Datas:
1. "Cruising" Temperatures:
City 120km/h permanent speed CAT: 48*C CAT: 48*C
Highway 140km/h permanent speed CAT: 47*C IAT: 48*C
Highway 215km/h permanent speed CAT: 52*C IAT: 49*C
2. Acceleration Temperatures:
0km/h, CAT:48*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 60*C, IAT: 49*C
CAT drops back to 53*C very fast, reach 49*C after 1min
0km/h, CAT: 49*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 210km/h, CAT: peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C
CAT drops back to 58*C very fast, reach 48* after 1,45 min
0km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 49*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 70*C, IAT: 49*C
CAT drops back to 53*C very fast, reach 49*
0km/h, CAT: 47*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 69*C, IAT: 50*C
CAT drops back to 52*C very fast, reach 49*C after 1,20min, peak boost: 1633hpA
3. Rolling Start Temperatures:
60km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 49*C --- 250km/h, CAT peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1613 hpA
100km/h, CAT: 49*C, IAT: 49*C -- 260km/h, CAT: peak 76*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1689hpA
100km/h, CAT: 46*C, IAT: 48*C -- 220km/h, CAT: peak 72*C, IAT: 49*C, peak boost: 1675hpA
60km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 48*C --- 240kmlh, CAT: peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1674hpA
Datalog CLS 55 AMG
Surrounding conditions during the test:
Outside Temp: 32*C (90F)
AC: on
Oiltemp. Engine: 103*C - 115*C
Coolant temp: 90*C - 96*C
IAT during test: 48*C - 50*C
Driving Datas:
1. "Cruising" Temperatures:
City 120km/h permanent speed CAT: 48*C CAT: 48*C
Highway 140km/h permanent speed CAT: 47*C IAT: 48*C
Highway 215km/h permanent speed CAT: 52*C IAT: 49*C
2. Acceleration Temperatures:
0km/h, CAT:48*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 60*C, IAT: 49*C
CAT drops back to 53*C very fast, reach 49*C after 1min
0km/h, CAT: 49*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 210km/h, CAT: peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C
CAT drops back to 58*C very fast, reach 48* after 1,45 min
0km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 49*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 70*C, IAT: 49*C
CAT drops back to 53*C very fast, reach 49*
0km/h, CAT: 47*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 69*C, IAT: 50*C
CAT drops back to 52*C very fast, reach 49*C after 1,20min, peak boost: 1633hpA
3. Rolling Start Temperatures:
60km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 49*C --- 250km/h, CAT peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1613 hpA
100km/h, CAT: 49*C, IAT: 49*C -- 260km/h, CAT: peak 76*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1689hpA
100km/h, CAT: 46*C, IAT: 48*C -- 220km/h, CAT: peak 72*C, IAT: 49*C, peak boost: 1675hpA
60km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 48*C --- 240kmlh, CAT: peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1674hpA
03-13-2009, 07:46 PM
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
at least thats how i think it is spelt
03-13-2009, 08:54 PM
#36
Member
So If Im reading your logs correctly....idling at 0km/h...your AIT's were ~49*C in a 32*C day...or 122*F in a 90*F day.... Right??
Then you floored the gas at full throttle from 0-160km/h(100mph) and your AIT's only roseby 1*C to 50*C??
so from 0-100mph your Ait's only went up 1*C??
That doesnt seem strange to you???
03-13-2009, 09:04 PM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
So If Im reading your logs correctly....idling at 0km/h...your AIT's were ~49*C in a 32*C day...or 122*F in a 90*F day.... Right??
Then you floored the gas at full throttle from 0-160km/h(100mph) and your AIT's only roseby 1*C to 50*C??
so from 0-100mph your Ait's only went up 1*C??
That doesnt seem strange to you???
Then you floored the gas at full throttle from 0-160km/h(100mph) and your AIT's only roseby 1*C to 50*C??
so from 0-100mph your Ait's only went up 1*C??
That doesnt seem strange to you???
this is with out pulley upgrade ,while using split additional evo HE
03-14-2009, 12:21 AM
#38
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2003 cl55 (sold)
...have 180mm pulley... never did any datalogging so I have no f***king idea what any of this means, but first you definitely need a tune. I had been "feeling" a tiny bit of heatsoak with mine, then my pump went out. Then, did the CM30, PTE stat and spacers...... car seems always ready to go now... and I luv my stupid 180mm pulley... best upgrade I ever did.... just my $.20 (or something like that 
)
)
03-14-2009, 06:50 AM
#39
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E55 211
I think i have 580 HP ( engine ) ...
But i`ll go to the dyno after solving the AIT problem.
I have no time today, but i think on monday i change the pump.
Actually i have reduced the AIT 10°C with pressure in the system.
Your data Loggis is very interesting ... because you are locatet in VAE ...
if your car is running there with power, it run all over the wold with power...
But i`ll go to the dyno after solving the AIT problem.
I have no time today, but i think on monday i change the pump.
Actually i have reduced the AIT 10°C with pressure in the system.
Your data Loggis is very interesting ... because you are locatet in VAE ...
if your car is running there with power, it run all over the wold with power...
03-14-2009, 08:45 AM
#40
Senior Member
hmmm here is my test
Datalog CLS 55 AMG
Surrounding conditions during the test:
Outside Temp: 32*C (90F)
AC: on
Oiltemp. Engine: 103*C - 115*C
Coolant temp: 90*C - 96*C
IAT during test: 48*C - 50*C
Driving Datas:
1. "Cruising" Temperatures:
City 120km/h permanent speed CAT: 48*C CAT: 48*C
Highway 140km/h permanent speed CAT: 47*C IAT: 48*C
Highway 215km/h permanent speed CAT: 52*C IAT: 49*C
2. Acceleration Temperatures:
0km/h, CAT:48*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 60*C, IAT: 49*C
CAT drops back to 53*C very fast, reach 49*C after 1min
0km/h, CAT: 49*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 210km/h, CAT: peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C
CAT drops back to 58*C very fast, reach 48* after 1,45 min
0km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 49*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 70*C, IAT: 49*C
CAT drops back to 53*C very fast, reach 49*
0km/h, CAT: 47*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 69*C, IAT: 50*C
CAT drops back to 52*C very fast, reach 49*C after 1,20min, peak boost: 1633hpA
3. Rolling Start Temperatures:
60km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 49*C --- 250km/h, CAT peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1613 hpA
100km/h, CAT: 49*C, IAT: 49*C -- 260km/h, CAT: peak 76*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1689hpA
100km/h, CAT: 46*C, IAT: 48*C -- 220km/h, CAT: peak 72*C, IAT: 49*C, peak boost: 1675hpA
60km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 48*C --- 240kmlh, CAT: peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1674hpA
Datalog CLS 55 AMG
Surrounding conditions during the test:
Outside Temp: 32*C (90F)
AC: on
Oiltemp. Engine: 103*C - 115*C
Coolant temp: 90*C - 96*C
IAT during test: 48*C - 50*C
Driving Datas:
1. "Cruising" Temperatures:
City 120km/h permanent speed CAT: 48*C CAT: 48*C
Highway 140km/h permanent speed CAT: 47*C IAT: 48*C
Highway 215km/h permanent speed CAT: 52*C IAT: 49*C
2. Acceleration Temperatures:
0km/h, CAT:48*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 60*C, IAT: 49*C
CAT drops back to 53*C very fast, reach 49*C after 1min
0km/h, CAT: 49*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 210km/h, CAT: peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C
CAT drops back to 58*C very fast, reach 48* after 1,45 min
0km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 49*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 70*C, IAT: 49*C
CAT drops back to 53*C very fast, reach 49*
0km/h, CAT: 47*C, IAT: 48*C ----- 160km/h, CAT: peak 69*C, IAT: 50*C
CAT drops back to 52*C very fast, reach 49*C after 1,20min, peak boost: 1633hpA
3. Rolling Start Temperatures:
60km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 49*C --- 250km/h, CAT peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1613 hpA
100km/h, CAT: 49*C, IAT: 49*C -- 260km/h, CAT: peak 76*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1689hpA
100km/h, CAT: 46*C, IAT: 48*C -- 220km/h, CAT: peak 72*C, IAT: 49*C, peak boost: 1675hpA
60km/h, CAT: 48*C, IAT: 48*C --- 240kmlh, CAT: peak 74*C, IAT: 50*C, peak boost: 1674hpA
76*C IAT after a run from 100 km/h to 260 km/h sounds correct to me. There is NO WAY the IAT only rises from 48*C to 50*C after such a run. No matter if the car is pullied or not. Just my 2 cents...
03-14-2009, 09:26 AM
#41
Member
100% agree!
...Just do a search of the various "Heat exchanger wars" and you'll see alot of data posted. AIT's rise with speed. Stock cooling circuit has super high peaks in short time and slow recovery. Upgraded cooling circuits with more volume keep the peaks lower for longer and GREATLY reduce recovery time.
ZOD,
I have a quick "NON-SCIENTIFIC" test for you to do.
1--Start your car and let it idle for 1 min.
2-Turn it off and pop the hood.
3-Put your hand on the Surge tank(the thing that says AMG). it should be below~49*C according to your measures.
4-Start your car back up.
5-Accelerate full throttle to 225km/hr.
6-Get out and touch the surge tank again.
7-Report your impressions
According to your data....the surge tank should be barely above 50*C.
I will guess that "UN-SCIENTIFICLY" you will report that the surge tank "felt" considerably hotter.....just a guess..
03-15-2009, 11:25 AM
#43
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Cars with Stars
IAT: Intake Air Temperature (the temperature of the air before the supercharger)
CAT: Charge Air Temperature (compressed air after the supercharger and intercooler)
now you can see that the cat is higher after the acceleration. the highest cat during that run is called "peak" (peak value).
anyway, zods cooling system together with the choice of the pulley size, works really well even here in kuwait.
this means on high speed runs as well as rolling runs from low speeds.
we did the meassurement together....
@fredxxx: kenne dich aus dem amg owners board....
CAT: Charge Air Temperature (compressed air after the supercharger and intercooler)
now you can see that the cat is higher after the acceleration. the highest cat during that run is called "peak" (peak value).
anyway, zods cooling system together with the choice of the pulley size, works really well even here in kuwait.
this means on high speed runs as well as rolling runs from low speeds.
we did the meassurement together....
@fredxxx: kenne dich aus dem amg owners board....
03-15-2009, 12:49 PM
#46
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@fredxxx: I think you are on the right way with your car.
just to be sure, the heat exchangers are in line connected on you car, right?
just to be sure, the heat exchangers are in line connected on you car, right?
