Performance Help!!
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From: Lafayette, IN
2008 ML63 2009 SL63 2010 Alpha 7 GTR
Performance Help!!
Hey guys I'm new to the thread and the e55 club and have a few questions about my car and performance enhancements. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Background: 2006 e55, 58,xxx miles all stock except K&N filters. I want to increase performance so I had it dyno'd first on a Dyno Dynamics dyno. It was about 70 degree weather in the midwest. It put down 362/450. This sounds low to me from what I'm reading throughout the threads. The car of course was running very hot and they were not using a fan. The dyno operators seemed to be very impressed, but I was not. Am I just being too honest about my HP and TQ or is this right. 
What do I need to do next?! pulley,ecu tune, H/E and pump? Is a 180mm too much?! Thanks guys!
What do I need to do next?! pulley,ecu tune, H/E and pump? Is a 180mm too much?! Thanks guys!
Last edited by E55Bullet; Jun 5, 2009 at 09:14 PM.
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From: Houston
2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
In the last part of your post you just answered your own question.
Get the 180mm it is not too big. After getting and ecu tune and pulley you and upgrade the cooling system.
Get the 180mm it is not too big. After getting and ecu tune and pulley you and upgrade the cooling system.
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From: Lafayette, IN
2008 ML63 2009 SL63 2010 Alpha 7 GTR
Shouldnt I do the cooling first, just to be on the safe side? What about exhaust? I just didnt know if the 180 was "extreme" for a daily driver. Thanks!
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From: Houston
2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
this is what i can figure out since i dont know the weather correction factor and dyno correction factor.
the e55 has close to an 18% drive train loss
stock 469 hp at crank - 18% DT loss = 384rwhp
stock 516 tq at crank - 18% DT loss = 423rwtq
(assuming the car was dynoed in 4th gear)
So for a stock E55 you are right in the range.
the e55 has close to an 18% drive train loss
stock 469 hp at crank - 18% DT loss = 384rwhp
stock 516 tq at crank - 18% DT loss = 423rwtq
(assuming the car was dynoed in 4th gear)
So for a stock E55 you are right in the range.
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From: Houston
2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
Dont get me wrong the H/E is a very good upgrade, especially if you take you car to the track and need it to recover quickly. H/E also helps to lower the IAT which in turn equates to more power.
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2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
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From: Tacoma WA
Bicycle
In my opinion i would think taking a blind approach to modifying is not the most ideal. I would start with at least a ODBII scan tool. Check out scantool.net for some ideas. At least this way you can get a basic window into whats going on. This is how I found out my intercooler pump was bad. You should post your dyno sheet, if the power drops off sharply I would suspect High intake temps and the computer is shutting off the supercharger. I would do cooling mods first, if what you have is not working buying a bigger pulley will yield no better results. Just my opinion
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From: California, USA
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
The E55 actually makes 500 hp at the crank and NOT the advertised 469 hp. So, as someone stated, your car should be making around 410 whp but that's on a dynojet. Load based dynos usually read lower (about 10% lower), which would put you at around 370 whp. Now if you factor in the extra heat and no fan conditions, then 362 whp may actually be accurate. The only way to know for sure is to re-dyno your car on a dynojet and compare the graph to other E55 graphs; there are lots of E55 dyno sheets posted on this forum
The four most proven mods or at least most commonly agreed upon mods for the E55 are: Pulley + ECU Tune + Headers + Throttle Body. Of course, the mod list goes on and on, but I was just giving you the essential ones.
RennTech and Kleemann use a 168 mm pulley while VRP and ASP use slightly bigger pulleys: 178 to 180 mm).
The four most proven mods or at least most commonly agreed upon mods for the E55 are: Pulley + ECU Tune + Headers + Throttle Body. Of course, the mod list goes on and on, but I was just giving you the essential ones.
RennTech and Kleemann use a 168 mm pulley while VRP and ASP use slightly bigger pulleys: 178 to 180 mm).
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From: Lafayette, IN
2008 ML63 2009 SL63 2010 Alpha 7 GTR
Dyno Sheet
Hey guys thank you for the help! keep it coming, I'm taking notes! I have included my dyno sheet. Let me know what you guys think.
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211-55
For stock your torque is high and your hp is lower than expected. However in my many years of dynoing different cars, I've noticed that subsequent pulls done on the same car same day usually have the hp going up and the torque going down, or vice-versa. So for your numbers, it can eventually look something more like this:
Pull 1: 362rwhp/450rwtq = 442bhp/549btq
Pull 2: 384rwhp/438rwtq = 469bhp/534btq
(Not scientific or anything, but dynos aren't spot-on accurate either)
To get the best numbers, have a cool engine. Use Water Wetter or Purple ice in your coolant. Also, I ice my supercharger and park in a windy location for at least half an hour before my first pull. In between each pull, the shops are usually ok with waiting 5-10 minutes until the next pull, unless there is a long line. Everywhere I've gone with a s/c car, they'll actually hold their fans to your s/c too, to help it cool off. Shut off the engine and ice your blower and spray ice water onto hot metal surfaces around the intake if the shop will let you. Don't wet your belts and don't let water drip all over their dyno and you'll be fine. Skip all these icing steps if you get a good cooling upgrade.
Pull 1: 362rwhp/450rwtq = 442bhp/549btq
Pull 2: 384rwhp/438rwtq = 469bhp/534btq
(Not scientific or anything, but dynos aren't spot-on accurate either)
To get the best numbers, have a cool engine. Use Water Wetter or Purple ice in your coolant. Also, I ice my supercharger and park in a windy location for at least half an hour before my first pull. In between each pull, the shops are usually ok with waiting 5-10 minutes until the next pull, unless there is a long line. Everywhere I've gone with a s/c car, they'll actually hold their fans to your s/c too, to help it cool off. Shut off the engine and ice your blower and spray ice water onto hot metal surfaces around the intake if the shop will let you. Don't wet your belts and don't let water drip all over their dyno and you'll be fine. Skip all these icing steps if you get a good cooling upgrade.
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From: Lafayette, IN
2008 ML63 2009 SL63 2010 Alpha 7 GTR
Cahill55k, Thanks for the advice. Here's pretty much how the dyno went which didnt make sense: My car was sitting for at least 2 hours before the first pull. I put it in dyno mode. They screwed around putting it on and getting it strapped in 15 min later while the car was still runnning they then started to do the pull. And then did 2 more back to back without even letting the car cool off. I didnt worry about icing it becasue it was sitting for so long. They never put a fan in front of the car and they hood was closed. Im sure I could pull a lot better dynos with an experience person that has dyno'd a lot of these cars. What were you trying to say about PULL 1 equaling out to be 442bhp? Is this what my numbers translate to? At the crank or rwp? Thanks so much.
PS My outside temp on my car was extremely high when I pulled it off the dyno, Im sure my SC was shut down. I think the outside temp read over 200? As soon as I pulled it off it dropped instantly. I didnt look at what the cooling temp was as I was was very eager to get her shut down, hood up, and cooled down.
PS My outside temp on my car was extremely high when I pulled it off the dyno, Im sure my SC was shut down. I think the outside temp read over 200? As soon as I pulled it off it dropped instantly. I didnt look at what the cooling temp was as I was was very eager to get her shut down, hood up, and cooled down.
Last edited by E55Bullet; Jun 6, 2009 at 04:42 PM.
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211-55
2 hours is pretty long and the car should have cooled off a bit. But, I've parked my car (hood down) in a 68 degree garage for 4 hours before and the engine was still very warm to the touch. These engines are very sensitive to heat. I've owned two other s/c cars in the past and neither were as bad as my E55. A dyno with no fans and hood down worries me a little, but I've seen alot of non-s/c cars dyno with shop fans and hood closed. Since you want your engine's best possible numbers, you gotta let it breathe which means hood open and intake tubes removed. If I go on a group dyno day, hood is usually open the whole time I'm waiting for my turn. And yes, using 18% drivetrain loss, your hp at the crank is 442. You can use 20% instead and it'll yield a little higher number.
362rwhp / 0.82 = ~442hp (same goes for torque)
362rwhp / 0.80 = ~453hp
362rwhp / 0.82 = ~442hp (same goes for torque)
362rwhp / 0.80 = ~453hp
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E55
Is it me or did they cut your pulls a little short? Regardless of the type of dyno; hp=tq at 5252rpm. Looking at your graph, they either killed the pull right at 5252 or just prior. I'm still getting familiar with the E55 so maybe someone with more experience can chime in as to what rpm peak hp is made in a stock E55.
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From: DFW
E350 Sport & Rs6
There are so many factors why your numbers could vary.....
How does it drive? We just finished a Kleemann K1 E55 and what a difference it made!
I would suggest looking into Kleemann products!
How does it drive? We just finished a Kleemann K1 E55 and what a difference it made!
I would suggest looking into Kleemann products!
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Bullet,
I've used Dyno Dynamics extensively, and have had all of my AMGs dyno'd on DD. It looks like your shop does not know what they are doing, and have not dyno'd MBs before. They attempted to dyno in 4th gear and hit the stock 150mph speed limiter, hence someone else noticing that your TQ and HP lines never get a chance to cross (they cross at 5252rpm, but you hit the speed limiter before that in 4th). You make peak HP after 5252 rpm, but since you never got there, your reading came out low.
This is why I always INSIST people take their cars to shops who know how to dyno MBs. Every shop says they know how to dyno cars, but MBs have a LOT of little quirks and need an experienced operator to run them, otherwise you'll often be wasting your time.
Take your car back there and tell them they have to use 3rd or there are some good shops up here in Chicago that know what they are doing and have a nice database of other MBs for you to compare to.
-m
I've used Dyno Dynamics extensively, and have had all of my AMGs dyno'd on DD. It looks like your shop does not know what they are doing, and have not dyno'd MBs before. They attempted to dyno in 4th gear and hit the stock 150mph speed limiter, hence someone else noticing that your TQ and HP lines never get a chance to cross (they cross at 5252rpm, but you hit the speed limiter before that in 4th). You make peak HP after 5252 rpm, but since you never got there, your reading came out low.
This is why I always INSIST people take their cars to shops who know how to dyno MBs. Every shop says they know how to dyno cars, but MBs have a LOT of little quirks and need an experienced operator to run them, otherwise you'll often be wasting your time.
Take your car back there and tell them they have to use 3rd or there are some good shops up here in Chicago that know what they are doing and have a nice database of other MBs for you to compare to.
-m
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C55,SL55,C63
I use Dyno-Dynamics and they are the way to do. They seem more and more to becoming the way to go when dynoing,
You got to dyno the car in 3rd gear. One basic reason is you would need nothing short of a wind tunnel to to pull of a truly successful pull at the speeds 4th gear brings. In turn you could see some knock or detonation up top at those speeds without the right kind of airflow.
You got to dyno the car in 3rd gear. One basic reason is you would need nothing short of a wind tunnel to to pull of a truly successful pull at the speeds 4th gear brings. In turn you could see some knock or detonation up top at those speeds without the right kind of airflow.
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From: Lafayette, IN
2008 ML63 2009 SL63 2010 Alpha 7 GTR
Mr. Frost, Thank you for your advice. I was thinking that they had no idea what the were doing and was a bit nervous at the the time to let them dyno it, but a couple 700+ hp supras rolled off the dyno before me so that made me feel a little bit better about letting them dyno my car. Where in Chicago is the best shop to go to? Im only a few hours away and I think it would be well worth my time to get it re-dyno'd correctly before I start adding mods. Thanks!
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Real Cars
Mr. Frost, Thank you for your advice. I was thinking that they had no idea what the were doing and was a bit nervous at the the time to let them dyno it, but a couple 700+ hp supras rolled off the dyno before me so that made me feel a little bit better about letting them dyno my car. Where in Chicago is the best shop to go to? Im only a few hours away and I think it would be well worth my time to get it re-dyno'd correctly before I start adding mods. Thanks!
http://www.gocpt.com
Good luck. Drop me a PM if you need any other help.
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From: California, USA
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Mr. Frost, Thank you for your advice. I was thinking that they had no idea what the were doing and was a bit nervous at the the time to let them dyno it, but a couple 700+ hp supras rolled off the dyno before me so that made me feel a little bit better about letting them dyno my car. Where in Chicago is the best shop to go to? Im only a few hours away and I think it would be well worth my time to get it re-dyno'd correctly before I start adding mods. Thanks!
