Another Fluid MotorUnion/ PowerChip E55 Dyno!
09-01-2009, 06:34 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern, CA.
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
17 Posts
V12-Biturbo
Sean,
Hussain has dyno'd high on two different Dyno Dynamics, Fluid's and CPTs. This year alone I've seen 3 other 600s dyno (on DDs) and no one has come close to his. His 600 is a freak as far as I can tell.
Refer to above.
My precious ball-breaker-dyno? Have you been drinking or something? People are bashing Dave's numbers as being low, and I'm posting my experience that they are not low for the dynos here. I refered to the dyno in Cali because serge uses that dyno and compared to that particular DD, our numbers here might seem low. There was another 180mm pulley/cat delete/etc car that did 430rwhp at Fluid.
Furthermore, Fluid and CPT are two separate shops, about 40 miles from each other. Both have DDs, except CPTs is still running the old DOS based control, and Fluid has a Windows controller.
You really need to chill bro, you get real excited about things and start talking crazy without knowing the point someone is trying to make.
I quote 55/600/65 numbers for context Sean, and it isn't for THIS particular Dyno Dynamics, it's for DYNO DYNAMICS in general. I don't think you quite understand that there are TWO different DDs in question here that I have dealt with... Fluid's and CPTs. Different shops. Different machines. Different operators, same Dyno type.
-m
Hussain has dyno'd high on two different Dyno Dynamics, Fluid's and CPTs. This year alone I've seen 3 other 600s dyno (on DDs) and no one has come close to his. His 600 is a freak as far as I can tell.
Refer to above.
My precious ball-breaker-dyno? Have you been drinking or something? People are bashing Dave's numbers as being low, and I'm posting my experience that they are not low for the dynos here. I refered to the dyno in Cali because serge uses that dyno and compared to that particular DD, our numbers here might seem low. There was another 180mm pulley/cat delete/etc car that did 430rwhp at Fluid.
Furthermore, Fluid and CPT are two separate shops, about 40 miles from each other. Both have DDs, except CPTs is still running the old DOS based control, and Fluid has a Windows controller.
You really need to chill bro, you get real excited about things and start talking crazy without knowing the point someone is trying to make.
I quote 55/600/65 numbers for context Sean, and it isn't for THIS particular Dyno Dynamics, it's for DYNO DYNAMICS in general. I don't think you quite understand that there are TWO different DDs in question here that I have dealt with... Fluid's and CPTs. Different shops. Different machines. Different operators, same Dyno type.
-m
The only way you'd be correct is if his boost was higher than normal while stock it wasn't, also to make the EXACT same #'s the highest DynoJet spits out on same models contradicts your theory @ least on 600/65 #'s on these particular Chicago DD's
09-01-2009, 06:40 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
Nope no drinks yet buddy, I realize you're referring to (2) seperate Ball-Breaker Dynodynamics, it doesn't change anything Hussain's S600 results are On-Par for ANY DynoJet readings, NO freak lol 13-14 psi Bone Stock come now, you think they slipped larger 65 AMG Turbo wheels in his S600
The only way you'd be correct is if his boost was higher than normal while stock it wasn't, also to make the EXACT same #'s the highest DynoJet spits out on same models contradicts your theory @ least on 600/65 #'s on these particular Chicago DD's
-m
09-01-2009, 06:50 PM
#31
FWIW, They did not imediately dyno my car when I got there. True my car did dyno in July/07, on a totally different DYNO DYNAMICS at another local shop, at 453.9! This was after my mods had been installed w/evo tune. It wasnt until earlier this year that I found out that EVOsport did not remove my limiters. Upon sending my ECU back to them, the car was running even worse! I expalined this to Jeremy, and he was nice enough to take a look at my car. When I arrived he said lets just flash it back to stock and start from there. It really didn't matter, to me, where it was # wise at that time, because it wasnt running right anyway! He flashed it and that was the 419 that is in red. From there, he flashed it with the first tune and it was 440's. Another flash got it to 460's. Thats when they saw the temps. They took it off and rewired the pump to run continuously with ignition, instead of the relay telling it when to turn on. And bam! There it was 490! Don't know how to better explain. 490rwhp @ 18% drivetrain loss equates to 597.5 at crank. My car was running with Z06's at the 453rwhp at 119mph and 11.56eta. Best run ever was 11.28 right after my frst tune with no intake. 
09-01-2009, 06:51 PM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern, CA.
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
17 Posts
V12-Biturbo
Yes Sean he's dyno'd high on TWO completely separate DDs. Different machines, different shops, different operators 40 miles apart, different time of year, etc., etc. You tell me how he could pull freakishly high numbers twice at two different dynos. I don't know how to explain it, other than it's a freak! No other 600 has made those numbers around here (at Fluid or CPT), so I don't know how to explain it.
That's not necessarily true, but it is a good point that boost seemed to be inline with stock. I can show you 3 tuned 600s in the past year making 450-460rwhp on local DDs. There could be other things in the motor/programming that Hussain is not aware of because he bought it used. I have not been in/around his car to see it myself but the fact that he did it in two places on two different days I think takes the "freak dyno" out of the picture.
-m
That's not necessarily true, but it is a good point that boost seemed to be inline with stock. I can show you 3 tuned 600s in the past year making 450-460rwhp on local DDs. There could be other things in the motor/programming that Hussain is not aware of because he bought it used. I have not been in/around his car to see it myself but the fact that he did it in two places on two different days I think takes the "freak dyno" out of the picture.
-m
I kid, I kid...
09-01-2009, 06:55 PM
#34
Super Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 648
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'08 S65, '04 Range Rover(The House), '06 Lexus GS 300(Wifey's), '02 Sea Ray 360 Sundancer
I would take any numbers from a tuner with a bag of salt,as you can see this tuner clearly went out of his way to decieve the numbers and make a run that would yeld low numbers.Why would you waste time throwing a stock tune on a modded car that is for one not safe for the engine and dyno it?
Second the car had a bad pump and you still put it on the dyno to get your base numbers to compair it to from your retune.Niceeeee
I dont care what type of dyno it is anyone can make any dyno read higher or lower,post up the raw data on the run with no correction factors in play.
If this is infact a DynoDynamics what are the shoot out numbers?
just because its a DD dyno dosnt mean you cant change the CF to make it read different.
You can make a DynoDynamics read just like a dynojet if you want.
edit on a side note about stock mapping,once the ecu is flashed back all adaptations are zero and the car will make more power as it adapts,hence the more and more power it got with more runs,enless you drove the car for a week with the stock tune then dynod it,this base line is a waste.
Second the car had a bad pump and you still put it on the dyno to get your base numbers to compair it to from your retune.Niceeeee
I dont care what type of dyno it is anyone can make any dyno read higher or lower,post up the raw data on the run with no correction factors in play.
If this is infact a DynoDynamics what are the shoot out numbers?
just because its a DD dyno dosnt mean you cant change the CF to make it read different.
You can make a DynoDynamics read just like a dynojet if you want.
edit on a side note about stock mapping,once the ecu is flashed back all adaptations are zero and the car will make more power as it adapts,hence the more and more power it got with more runs,enless you drove the car for a week with the stock tune then dynod it,this base line is a waste.
09-01-2009, 06:58 PM
#35
. JK
09-01-2009, 07:10 PM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
I don't think we disagree Sean... I mean unless you think both DDs here are screwy *and* the 3 other tuned 600s that I've seen dyno this year, all of which were lower than Hussains, are all just down on power?
I cannot explain why Hussain's car has dyno'd so high, I really can't. I just don't think it's the dyno, but hey, I could be wrong.
Sorry to hijack your thread Dave...
-m
I cannot explain why Hussain's car has dyno'd so high, I really can't. I just don't think it's the dyno, but hey, I could be wrong.
Sorry to hijack your thread Dave...
-m
or maybe just maybe 
09-01-2009, 07:24 PM
#38
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern, CA.
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
17 Posts
V12-Biturbo
I don't think we disagree Sean... I mean unless you think both DDs here are screwy *and* the 3 other tuned 600s that I've seen dyno this year, all of which were lower than Hussains, are all just down on power?
I cannot explain why Hussain's car has dyno'd so high, I really can't. I just don't think it's the dyno, but hey, I could be wrong.
Sorry to hijack your thread Dave...
-m
I cannot explain why Hussain's car has dyno'd so high, I really can't. I just don't think it's the dyno, but hey, I could be wrong.
Sorry to hijack your thread Dave...
-m
09-01-2009, 07:45 PM
#39
Senior Member
That's not necessarily true, but it is a good point that boost seemed to be inline with stock. I can show you 3 tuned 600s in the past year making 450-460rwhp on local DDs. There could be other things in the motor/programming that Hussain is not aware of because he bought it used. I have not been in/around his car to see it myself but the fact that he did it in two places on two different days I think takes the "freak dyno" out of the picture.
-m
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...cu-tune-2.html
09-01-2009, 08:57 PM
#40
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2005 E55
FWIW, They did not imediately dyno my car when I got there. True my car did dyno in July/07, on a totally different DYNO DYNAMICS at another local shop, at 453.9! This was after my mods had been installed w/evo tune. It wasnt until earlier this year that I found out that EVOsport did not remove my limiters. Upon sending my ECU back to them, the car was running even worse! I expalined this to Jeremy, and he was nice enough to take a look at my car. When I arrived he said lets just flash it back to stock and start from there. It really didn't matter, to me, where it was # wise at that time, because it wasnt running right anyway! He flashed it and that was the 419 that is in red. From there, he flashed it with the first tune and it was 440's. Another flash got it to 460's. Thats when they saw the temps. They took it off and rewired the pump to run continuously with ignition, instead of the relay telling it when to turn on. And bam! There it was 490! Don't know how to better explain. 490rwhp @ 18% drivetrain loss equates to 597.5 at crank. My car was running with Z06's at the 453rwhp at 119mph and 11.56eta. Best run ever was 11.28 right after my frst tune with no intake.
Can't wait to see what your car runs at the track...lets hit up GLD sometime soon now that the weather is cooling up!
Oh yeah Marcus...its was 125mph
but at 12.0 :P.
09-01-2009, 09:17 PM
#41
My SL65 did 487rwhp on Dyno Dynamics (it's very healthy). RENNTech/Kleemann/etc 600s do around 460 on Dyno Dynamics.
Dyno Dynamics is NOT Dynojet, and the DD in the Bay Area that you use and Alan uses reads a lot higher than the two DDs (and any other one I've seen) here in Chicago.
-m
Maybe we should have a sticky regarding dyno numbers so we don't muck up other peoples thread
.BTW...Mike also ran a 124 mph at Famoso with his car dyno'ing at 484 on Dyno Comps DD. That must also be a very high DD...right? It has to go both ways here because your dyno numbers don't make any sense either...right? I'm just trying to get some clarification why you think you have the biggest heartbreak dyno in the world? His run was aslo done in similar conditions
.Also keep in mind that our highest trap speeds came with our best ET and 60' time. Where in most cases you see people posting record trap speeds separate from their best ET's. To me, PB trap speeds should come along with your best ET. JMHO.
Last edited by bassn_07; 09-01-2009 at 09:48 PM. Reason: Chiromikey's trap at Famoso
09-01-2009, 10:22 PM
#42
Out Of Control!!
You can change different parameters on different dynos. On DD's you can change the load on the car. There is a setting called shootout mode or something and this sets all the parameters so you can compare cars dyno'd on different DD's around the world. Obviously there are still factors that weigh in on the final numbers.
Last edited by blackbenzz; 09-01-2009 at 10:42 PM.
09-01-2009, 10:29 PM
#43
MBWorld Fanatic!
Haha...still at it Marcus. Is it really that hard to believe that my car isn't in the 500's with 130 mph trap speed when your SL dyno's 490 with 121 trap in similar conditions? I don't find it that hard to believe unless I'm missing something.
Maybe we should have a sticky regarding dyno numbers so we don't muck up other peoples thread.
BTW...Mike also ran a 124 mph at Famoso with his car dyno'ing at 484 on Dyno Comps DD. That must also be a very high DD...right? It has to go both ways here because your dyno numbers don't make any sense either...right? I'm just trying to get some clarification why you think you have the biggest heartbreak dyno in the world? His run was aslo done in similar conditions.
Also keep in mind that our highest trap speeds came with our best ET and 60' time. Where in most cases you see people posting record trap speeds separate from their best ET's. To me, PB trap speeds should come along with your best ET. JMHO.
Maybe we should have a sticky regarding dyno numbers so we don't muck up other peoples thread
.BTW...Mike also ran a 124 mph at Famoso with his car dyno'ing at 484 on Dyno Comps DD. That must also be a very high DD...right? It has to go both ways here because your dyno numbers don't make any sense either...right? I'm just trying to get some clarification why you think you have the biggest heartbreak dyno in the world? His run was aslo done in similar conditions
.Also keep in mind that our highest trap speeds came with our best ET and 60' time. Where in most cases you see people posting record trap speeds separate from their best ET's. To me, PB trap speeds should come along with your best ET. JMHO.
I mentioned the Dyno out by you solely because serge was asking about the low #s and for WHATEVER reason, the two DDs out here read lower than your DD out there, apparently. It's not because we have nothing but heartbreakers out here, it's because it is what it is.
Your car to be at 500rwhp on a DD is believable. As far as I can see you and Dave have very, very similar mods, except you have a 2mm larger TB. You are telling me 2mm TB makes 50rwhp over Dave, even with both of you having custom PC tunes? 540 just seems high to me. In my experience an E55 that does around 450-460rwhp on DD will do 124-126 mph in the 1/4 (based on 2 local cars). Your car supposedly does 100rwhp more, but only gets 4-6mph more. I'm sorry alan, you take things so personally, but it just does not add up with what I have seen. I don't know why everytime I post about DDs you have to come on here and give me a hard time about me not believing you but it is what it is.
I congratulated Dave on his numbers but we will have to see what he traps. I've never seen a 55 off spray lay down those numbers on a DD. When Dave and I spoke afterwards I told him that I thought Fluid's dyno was pretty accurate, but that maybe he should compare it himself if he feels the #s might be off. I did not know about the water pump issue and those things, but how that changes things I do not know.
In regards to your 55 versus my 65... not really a straightforward comparison. Different chassis, engines, weights, etc. I will have my E55 at the track soon and probably be taking my 65 back as well to see what they can do. I know Dave will be game as well.
-m
09-01-2009, 10:33 PM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
You can change different pameters on different dynos. On DD's you can change the load on the car. There is a setting called shootout mode or something and this sets all the parameters so you can compare cars dyno'd on different DD's around the world. Obviously there are still factors that weigh in on the final numbers.
09-01-2009, 10:35 PM
#45
MBWorld Fanatic!
That's where I think these particular DD's are weird, when Dynoing 600/65's #'s are all over the place, I do know from my exp w/Superflow Dyno (very similar to Mustangs, if you don't have Curb Weight set exactly right for ea vehicle can skew #'s higher/lower) who knows
I am not familiar with superflow dynos.
09-01-2009, 10:44 PM
#46
MBWorld Fanatic!
post up the shootout mode numbers....I bet you 5 bucks there 40whp less lol the whole reason people call the dynodynamics the heartbreak dyno is because how low it reads in shootout mode.
this mode is a set of correction factors that all DD can use to compare with another.If it wasnt in shoot out mode who knows what they were doing to make these numbers
this mode is a set of correction factors that all DD can use to compare with another.If it wasnt in shoot out mode who knows what they were doing to make these numbers
09-01-2009, 10:46 PM
#47
Out Of Control!!
^ EXACTLY!
The easy way to tell if shootout mode was used during dynoing is to look at the readout. It says shootout at the bottom if it was. See attached dyno for an example
There is a shootout mode on DD but Fluid was not using it (at least not when I stopped by) and CPT doesn't even know how to. I have never seen shoot out mode in person. The manipulation you are talking about (I think) is when you bypass RPM pickup and use the gearing input. You bring the car up to a certain speed in the RPM you want to dyno in and then you manually input the RPM to the machine for it to calculated gearing. Fluid was doing manual gear input, which I think may sway #s a little bit, but not night and day. I much prefer using RPM pickup but in Fluid's defense it is finicky and losing an RPM signal through a pull is a waste of time and money especially when you are booked up.
Last edited by blackbenzz; 09-01-2009 at 10:48 PM.
09-01-2009, 10:52 PM
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
for comparison,a friends e46 m3 put down 275whp on a dynojet and the next day 224 on a dd in shoot out mode.
same gas,same weather 490in shoot out mode is 580+ on a dynojet
same gas,same weather 490in shoot out mode is 580+ on a dynojet
09-01-2009, 11:07 PM
#49
Am I at it again, or are you? I'm posting in a thread about a friend of mine who's dyno'd here in Chicago at two Dynos I am familiar with. People are attacking his numbers, and I am responding. I don't have the biggest heart breaker in the world. There are TWO, yes, TWO Dyno Dynamics here that both have shown similar numbers for cars that have been in both places. Not everyone on the forums knows that DD read lower than the popular Dynojet. I go by what they tell me. Dave dyno'd on both of these TWO DDs, that is why I am in this thread. This isn't a thread about someone who dyno'd on a DD in never never land. I am posting here because people are attacking Dave's numbers. I am not "at it again", I am contributing to the forum in a thread where my experience is relevant.
I mentioned the Dyno out by you solely because serge was asking about the low #s and for WHATEVER reason, the two DDs out here read lower than your DD out there, apparently. It's not because we have nothing but heartbreakers out here, it's because it is what it is.
Your car to be at 500rwhp on a DD is believable. As far as I can see you and Dave have very, very similar mods, except you have a 2mm larger TB. You are telling me 2mm TB makes 50rwhp over Dave, even with both of you having custom PC tunes? 540 just seems high to me. In my experience an E55 that does around 450-460rwhp on DD will do 124-126 mph in the 1/4 (based on 2 local cars). Your car supposedly does 100rwhp more, but only gets 4-6mph more. I'm sorry alan, you take things so personally, but it just does not add up with what I have seen. I don't know why everytime I post about DDs you have to come on here and give me a hard time about me not believing you but it is what it is.
I congratulated Dave on his numbers but we will have to see what he traps. I've never seen a 55 off spray lay down those numbers on a DD. When Dave and I spoke afterwards I told him that I thought Fluid's dyno was pretty accurate, but that maybe he should compare it himself if he feels the #s might be off. I did not know about the water pump issue and those things, but how that changes things I do not know.
In regards to your 55 versus my 65... not really a straightforward comparison. Different chassis, engines, weights, etc. I will have my E55 at the track soon and probably be taking my 65 back as well to see what they can do. I know Dave will be game as well.
-m
I mentioned the Dyno out by you solely because serge was asking about the low #s and for WHATEVER reason, the two DDs out here read lower than your DD out there, apparently. It's not because we have nothing but heartbreakers out here, it's because it is what it is.
Your car to be at 500rwhp on a DD is believable. As far as I can see you and Dave have very, very similar mods, except you have a 2mm larger TB. You are telling me 2mm TB makes 50rwhp over Dave, even with both of you having custom PC tunes? 540 just seems high to me. In my experience an E55 that does around 450-460rwhp on DD will do 124-126 mph in the 1/4 (based on 2 local cars). Your car supposedly does 100rwhp more, but only gets 4-6mph more. I'm sorry alan, you take things so personally, but it just does not add up with what I have seen. I don't know why everytime I post about DDs you have to come on here and give me a hard time about me not believing you but it is what it is.
I congratulated Dave on his numbers but we will have to see what he traps. I've never seen a 55 off spray lay down those numbers on a DD. When Dave and I spoke afterwards I told him that I thought Fluid's dyno was pretty accurate, but that maybe he should compare it himself if he feels the #s might be off. I did not know about the water pump issue and those things, but how that changes things I do not know.
In regards to your 55 versus my 65... not really a straightforward comparison. Different chassis, engines, weights, etc. I will have my E55 at the track soon and probably be taking my 65 back as well to see what they can do. I know Dave will be game as well.
-m
How about I start another thread and we could have a full on discussion without disrupting someone else's thread
09-01-2009, 11:19 PM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
post up the shootout mode numbers....I bet you 5 bucks there 40whp less lol the whole reason people call the dynodynamics the heartbreak dyno is because how low it reads in shootout mode.
this mode is a set of correction factors that all DD can use to compare with another.If it wasnt in shoot out mode who knows what they were doing to make these numbers
this mode is a set of correction factors that all DD can use to compare with another.If it wasnt in shoot out mode who knows what they were doing to make these numbers
There's correction factors with any dyno. CPT inputs the weather conditions directly from the weather station next to the dyno, and Fluid's has sensors onboard that automatically feed the info to have the CF calculated. Neither of them have manipulated weather conditions to my knowledge.
-m
