Shorty headers vs longtube headers
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,190
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shrimp boat
Shorty headers vs longtube headers
Like the title said, what are the pros and cons of the shorty headers over the longtube headers? TIA
PS I'm in the process of getting a set of headers make for my E55 by a local speed shop.
PS I'm in the process of getting a set of headers make for my E55 by a local speed shop.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 3
From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
one aspect of long tubes, not really talked about to much is.. You can add a deeper degree of tuning. IIRC, you can add more ignition to a tune with long tubes over shorty or stock manifold.
Some say you can see a drop in torque with long tube. However with my experience with long tubes on AMG, I dont see it. Even more so after a retune. The torque is there thats for sure.
LTs header power gains can be upwards of 50WHP!!! pending on supporting mods. In short they really open up a lot of doors for AMG performance.
Do you have any MODS planned for your Shrimp Boat? High performance nets? Legs for Lieutenant Dan?
Some say you can see a drop in torque with long tube. However with my experience with long tubes on AMG, I dont see it. Even more so after a retune. The torque is there thats for sure.
LTs header power gains can be upwards of 50WHP!!! pending on supporting mods. In short they really open up a lot of doors for AMG performance.
Do you have any MODS planned for your Shrimp Boat? High performance nets? Legs for Lieutenant Dan?
Last edited by hooleyboy; Oct 24, 2009 at 12:40 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 525
Likes: 2
From: Phoenix, AZ
'12 E350 Coupe (3rd Benz)
63 or 55?
short tube headers will bolt on, easy done, there is lots of chips that go easy with them, done and done. $5k-ish (renntech) $1k for chip, like 60-80hp gain on 63 - a lot less on 55.
Long tube header, you have to mod your exhaust, you might as well go with full custom exhaust. In order to fit a long tube header on to your car, each tube has to pass through the very limited room, leading from the underbody to where the header attaches, this means lots of small welds, even if you buy it pre-fab. In going with logtube headers, it changes everything and moves the O2 censor, so you need some software to disable that. Long tube headers are a serious commitment. $8k-ish (evotech) $1k-ish for chip 80-100hp gain on a 63 - a lot less on 55.
It's simple to get more power from a 55, for a 63, headers is probably the biggest step in the right direction. TO see pictures, check my facebook - there is a link in my signature (little blue F in the middle)
Long tube header, you have to mod your exhaust, you might as well go with full custom exhaust. In order to fit a long tube header on to your car, each tube has to pass through the very limited room, leading from the underbody to where the header attaches, this means lots of small welds, even if you buy it pre-fab. In going with logtube headers, it changes everything and moves the O2 censor, so you need some software to disable that. Long tube headers are a serious commitment. $8k-ish (evotech) $1k-ish for chip 80-100hp gain on a 63 - a lot less on 55.
It's simple to get more power from a 55, for a 63, headers is probably the biggest step in the right direction. TO see pictures, check my facebook - there is a link in my signature (little blue F in the middle)
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,190
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shrimp boat
Thanks guys. I think I'll go with the long tube header for my car. I'll not drive the car during the winter so it'll be at the shop get the header fab up and also re-do the exhaust. The header will be equal length also.
The car currently have the Renntech 172 mm pulley and tune. I will upgrade the heat exchanger, split the cooling system, add rear 5 gallon tank, 82mm tb, 160* PTE thermostat, and of course re-tune.
The car currently have the Renntech 172 mm pulley and tune. I will upgrade the heat exchanger, split the cooling system, add rear 5 gallon tank, 82mm tb, 160* PTE thermostat, and of course re-tune.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,388
Likes: 18
'06 E55 K2
one aspect of long tubes, not really talked about to much is.. You can add a deeper degree of tuning. IIRC, you can add more ignition to a tune with long tubes over shorty or stock manifold.
Some say you can see a drop in torque with long tube. However with my experience with long tubes on AMG, I dont see it. Even more so after a retune. The torque is there thats for sure.
LTs header power gains can be upwards of 50WHP!!! pending on supporting mods. In short they really open up a lot of doors for AMG performance.
Do you have any MODS planned for your Shrimp Boat? High performance nets? Legs for Lieutenant Dan?
Some say you can see a drop in torque with long tube. However with my experience with long tubes on AMG, I dont see it. Even more so after a retune. The torque is there thats for sure.
LTs header power gains can be upwards of 50WHP!!! pending on supporting mods. In short they really open up a lot of doors for AMG performance.
Do you have any MODS planned for your Shrimp Boat? High performance nets? Legs for Lieutenant Dan?
Yasin
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Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 93
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
This is a dyno chart of an E55 with a ton of mods, Dyno Comp replaced the Renntech shorty headers with the MBH/Dyno-Comp Long tubes and tossed it on the dyno. The Dyno results show gains over an E55 equiped with with shorty headers, then replaced with our long tubes. The results tell it all.
These headers will out last your car.
This is the only header available for Mercedes AMG's that uses the specs of your engine to aid in the design. Also 3D Computer mapping and 321 stainless steel flanges,
Other features:
100% Argon back purge TIG welded.
Ture firing order design
Slip-joint colectors
321 & 304 stainless steel
Double flange wall welded
3M Scotch-Brite finish
Our fabricator bring years of header fabrication experance. He is a former IRL racing league header fabricator.
The last time he used mild steel on an exhaust project was when he was making a header jig.
These headers will out last your car.
This is the only header available for Mercedes AMG's that uses the specs of your engine to aid in the design. Also 3D Computer mapping and 321 stainless steel flanges,
Other features:
100% Argon back purge TIG welded.
Ture firing order design
Slip-joint colectors
321 & 304 stainless steel
Double flange wall welded
3M Scotch-Brite finish
Our fabricator bring years of header fabrication experance. He is a former IRL racing league header fabricator.
The last time he used mild steel on an exhaust project was when he was making a header jig.
Last edited by MBH motorsports; Oct 25, 2009 at 06:37 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
This discussion needs to add retail pricing. As Hooley is showing, there are long tubes and there are long tubes. Do they all add 50hp?
Hooley: I think your data is a sweet display of how "our" cars run out of air at the top. Your LTs have sweet gains!
Hooley: I think your data is a sweet display of how "our" cars run out of air at the top. Your LTs have sweet gains!
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 3
From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
My fabricator worked on the design, playing with runner sizes, to have most of the power come on later in the RPM range.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Texas
2003 CL55
+ one. Saw those 5 links on my car first hand.. Same LT`s for me next!
__________________
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
Last edited by Exotic-metal55; Oct 25, 2009 at 09:32 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,637
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From: Tempe, Az
CLS55 AMG 030
My floored Fad. LT's have been great , sound good , look good and make good power for almost the price of a shorty header. The only prob I have is ground clearence but its mostly because I slammed my car
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 93
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
Being in AZ, I've seen alot of Floored Fabs stuff. The only thing that gets me about Floored Fabs headers is they are mild steel. Floored Fab does decent fabrication work. However for $2500 (I think thats what FF headers cost) you get a set of headers that only have about $200 of material in them.
Here is a friendly material cost comparison of the MBH/DC headers vs FF headers.
Last I checked our headers go for around $3200 ( I dont do pricing so not 100% on that)
Floored Fab's are like $2500, from what I hear.
MBH/DC Headers have well over $1000 worth of 321, 304 stainless steel and alot of 308 SS rods. We will just call it an even 1k in material for comparison sake.
Floorded Fab. about $200 worth of mild steel tubing and flanges
MBH headers $3200 - $1000 = $2200
Floored Fab headers, $2500 - $200 = $2300
Our Headers, based on this basic math (not including machining costs, and Misc other stuff for both Floored fab and MBH/DC) offer a better value. The MBH/DC headers will outlast your car. Not to mention the many more heat cycles stainless steel can endure vs mild steel.
Here is a friendly material cost comparison of the MBH/DC headers vs FF headers.
Last I checked our headers go for around $3200 ( I dont do pricing so not 100% on that)
Floored Fab's are like $2500, from what I hear.
MBH/DC Headers have well over $1000 worth of 321, 304 stainless steel and alot of 308 SS rods. We will just call it an even 1k in material for comparison sake.
Floorded Fab. about $200 worth of mild steel tubing and flanges
MBH headers $3200 - $1000 = $2200
Floored Fab headers, $2500 - $200 = $2300
Our Headers, based on this basic math (not including machining costs, and Misc other stuff for both Floored fab and MBH/DC) offer a better value. The MBH/DC headers will outlast your car. Not to mention the many more heat cycles stainless steel can endure vs mild steel.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,637
Likes: 0
From: Tempe, Az
CLS55 AMG 030
Being in AZ, I've seen alot of Floored Fabs stuff. The only thing that gets me about Floored Fabs headers is they are mild steel. Floored Fab does decent fabrication work. However for $2500 (I think thats what FF headers cost) you get a set of headers that only have about $200 of material in them.
Here is a friendly material cost comparison of the MBH/DC headers vs FF headers.
Last I checked our headers go for around $3200 ( I dont do pricing so not 100% on that)
Floored Fab's are like $2500, from what I hear.
MBH/DC Headers have well over $1000 worth of 321, 304 stainless steel and alot of 308 SS rods. We will just call it an even 1k in material for comparison sake.
Floorded Fab. about $200 worth of mild steel tubing and flanges
MBH headers $3200 - $1000 = $2200
Floored Fab headers, $2500 - $200 = $2300
Our Headers, based on this basic math (not including machining costs, and Misc other stuff for both Floored fab and MBH/DC) offer a better value. The MBH/DC headers will outlast your car. Not to mention the many more heat cycles stainless steel can endure vs mild steel.
Here is a friendly material cost comparison of the MBH/DC headers vs FF headers.
Last I checked our headers go for around $3200 ( I dont do pricing so not 100% on that)
Floored Fab's are like $2500, from what I hear.
MBH/DC Headers have well over $1000 worth of 321, 304 stainless steel and alot of 308 SS rods. We will just call it an even 1k in material for comparison sake.
Floorded Fab. about $200 worth of mild steel tubing and flanges
MBH headers $3200 - $1000 = $2200
Floored Fab headers, $2500 - $200 = $2300
Our Headers, based on this basic math (not including machining costs, and Misc other stuff for both Floored fab and MBH/DC) offer a better value. The MBH/DC headers will outlast your car. Not to mention the many more heat cycles stainless steel can endure vs mild steel.
So I guess it all depends on what you want to spend like I would have loved a BS over my E55 but didnt have enough $$$$ so kind of like the same scenario, No?
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 93
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
ya true, but for that $2500 you get the whole exhaust with cats vs. $5000 from MBH/DC ( http://dyno-comp.com/details.php?model=68&type=80#st ) the rust part doesnt really bother me since I live in AZ and they are coated in side and out so I probably wont have the car any more when the headers rust out. I would have loved to try the MBH kit since Im right up the road but its all a matter of how much I had to spend on mods and if I would have went the MBH/DC LT route that would have been my whole mod budget.
So I guess it all depends on what you want to spend like I would have loved a BS over my E55 but didnt have enough $$$$ so kind of like the same scenario, No?
So I guess it all depends on what you want to spend like I would have loved a BS over my E55 but didnt have enough $$$$ so kind of like the same scenario, No?
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 3
From: Glendale Arizona
C55,SL55,C63
From what I hear 63 headers are coming. I'm not to involved in that project, but from what I hear and know its happening. I know the MBH/DC C63 headers are coming out soon, the other 63's will be right behind it.
Banned
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 971
Likes: 1
From: D.C. METRO AREA
CLS55 AMG
Being in AZ, I've seen alot of Floored Fabs stuff. The only thing that gets me about Floored Fabs headers is they are mild steel. Floored Fab does decent fabrication work. However for $2500 (I think thats what FF headers cost) you get a set of headers that only have about $200 of material in them.
Here is a friendly material cost comparison of the MBH/DC headers vs FF headers.
Last I checked our headers go for around $3200 ( I dont do pricing so not 100% on that)
Floored Fab's are like $2500, from what I hear.
MBH/DC Headers have well over $1000 worth of 321, 304 stainless steel and alot of 308 SS rods. We will just call it an even 1k in material for comparison sake.
Floorded Fab. about $200 worth of mild steel tubing and flanges
MBH headers $3200 - $1000 = $2200
Floored Fab headers, $2500 - $200 = $2300
Our Headers, based on this basic math (not including machining costs, and Misc other stuff for both Floored fab and MBH/DC) offer a better value. The MBH/DC headers will outlast your car. Not to mention the many more heat cycles stainless steel can endure vs mild steel.
Here is a friendly material cost comparison of the MBH/DC headers vs FF headers.
Last I checked our headers go for around $3200 ( I dont do pricing so not 100% on that)
Floored Fab's are like $2500, from what I hear.
MBH/DC Headers have well over $1000 worth of 321, 304 stainless steel and alot of 308 SS rods. We will just call it an even 1k in material for comparison sake.
Floorded Fab. about $200 worth of mild steel tubing and flanges
MBH headers $3200 - $1000 = $2200
Floored Fab headers, $2500 - $200 = $2300
Our Headers, based on this basic math (not including machining costs, and Misc other stuff for both Floored fab and MBH/DC) offer a better value. The MBH/DC headers will outlast your car. Not to mention the many more heat cycles stainless steel can endure vs mild steel.
