AMGPilot

Tthe Topgear test track has three small sections devoted to cornering power. The track for the most part (Since it's just airport runways and taxiways strung together) favors cars with huge amounts of torque and horsepower.

Yes the W212 won, but because of HP and Torque not handling

Gondon

So what about the W212 beating the M5 on the Nurburgring?

Dr. G

is there a yawn icon?

VCA_AMG

slownrusty

Not a true statement...these pics should help clear up your confusion:

transferred

The W212 was released in 2009, the E60 in 2003. The new M5 will whoop the W212 E63

pearlpower

You see a new M5 on the road? Nope, so the new AMG will whoop the OLD M5. Those are the cars on the road right now so get over it. And we won't even get into straight line where the M5 has never beat the AMG.

Gondon

E60 M5 (2006–2010)

The New 5 series look like ***.

VCA_AMG

I would also prefer to see Top Gear's track times normalized for DRY track only, but if they did that in miserable-weather England, they'd never get any vehicles tested.

Looks like the W212 E63 pulled off a scorcher of a lap time even on the wet track. That's impressive.

transferred

Look newb, you need more than a used E-class and a ****-poor knowledge of autos to roll in with such an attitude....check out any roll-on with the E60 and get back to me on the straight line thing...

pearlpower

Look at when the E60 M5 was launched Einstein. HINT: It was not 2003.

Gondon

Who wants a car that only starts catching up after 100mph?

transferred

Do you even know what an e60 is? It was 2003 little boy...use google, you clearly need it...

220S

fwiw, the W211 E63 was introduced within a year of the E60 M5 introduction (2005)

The F10 M5 will be introduced about 1.5 years later than the W212 E63.

Take the W211 around the track, and subtract it's time from the W212. Now take that time and compare it to the E60 M5. Now you have a proper comparison. LOL.

So quit the yapping and just wait until the F10 arrives.

Oh, but wait, then the W212 will be at a disadvantage because it won't be the soon to arrive W212.5 with the new TT motor. Okay wait until the W212 with the new power plant and DCT instead of MCT and then compare it to the F10 M5. Oh, but wait, in the meantime the F10 M5 just boosted power and a new redesigned M-DCT and so it's not fair to the W212.5.

pearlpower

The M5 E60 which is what is being discussed here was released for MY 2006. Your idiocy is trying to compare chassis. The M5 suspension is not the same as a standard 5 series so your logic makes little sense. Now go back to Walmart and sell some air filters Einstein.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_5_S...282003-2010.29

Perhaps you missed your meds today. Viagra has that kind of effect.

220S

E60 was introduced in 2003. E60 M5 went into production in early 2005.

VCA_AMG

It's funny, my local dealership said they weren't "really" aware of the W212 receiving the 5.5TT engine "any time soon, at least until 2012 or 2013." And when I started asking them questions about the engine, the salesman essentially said "it's too early to know anything about that engine." I told him he could find quite a bit of info online & that the new engine looks to be a bada$$. I mean it makes sense they don't want to take sales away from the current 63 engine vehicle, but still.

220S

fwiw, all salespeople act like they don't know anything. Most of them don't, LOL, but by saying that it helps them concentrate on selling what's on the lot. That's all they really care about and it's all that matters to them. They have to sell now in order to eat tomorrow.

VCA_AMG

That makes plenty of sense. I made it pretty clear I wasn't buying that day at the sales lot, and we discussed MBZ history/models in detail, so I thought he would at least acknowledge what's coming down the line. Either he didn't know or he had a good poker face...and I'm guessing it's the former

transferred

Wow, the Wikipedia link comes to the fore... E60 is what you said, and that refers to the 5-series. Say what you mean, not what you mean to say and you'll get further in life...especially if you improve your put-downs.

Let's get this clear...be honest that you can't afford either the new E63 or M5 so your talk of Walmart wages is rather ironic, wouldn't you say playa?

Enough of the off-topic arguing, as 220S says we'll see when the 5.5T can go against the F10 but continual improvement from both makers is best for the consumer so I suppose it is rather moot...

-Rob

Zod

Ah but Rob…you have to admit you are a bit of a BMW fan bow, as you never diss it (your post history), each of us have their preferences

Fact of the matter is some of the recent results are showing the new E63 to be faster around the track then the current M5

Zod

loved the post above lol

But it does go to show all the monsters MB has made. There is one missing and i think its the SL73, or somthing along those lines (the engine in it is what the Zonda uses)

Busta Riles

FWIW,
Mercedes-Benz gives the dealers zero info on upcoming engines, models, etc. The people who work in the dealerships get their info from the same place you guys do...internet. The only info we get is mayyybe 3-4 months ahead of launch.

As far as the new TT engines, Mercedes-Benz has told us nothing....which means, they won't be introduced in Canada/US this upcoming model year (2011).

Pay attention to what Europe gets in their cars & wait 8-12 months...that's when we get it, if we get it.

transferred

True on both counts, Z...

I gotta that AMG is making great strides in handling and the rest so my M preference is close to being over especially w/ the move to FI which puts Ms even more in AMG's cross hairs...

-Rob

220S

Something that has to be considered when talking about BMW handling versus MB handling is that MB has always been on the side of a comfort ride versus stiffer suspensions. It's been a trade off for MB to still provide its trademark comfortable ride, just like BMW has had to make a compromise with comfort to maintain its focus on handling.

But things seem to be changing lately. The new F10 (non-M) has been softened up a lot, and with electric power steering. A lot of the press say its not nearly as sharp handling but it is more comfortable. The 5er and the E Class are big time competitors for that class. BMW knew it was losing customers with the harsh ride. (fwiw, the E Class is what Daimler calls its "business sedan." It's an "executive" comfort car. To make it handle like a P-car or something would mean a rough ride, and a reduction in weight while sacrificing safety.)

Daimler has only owned AMG 100% for a very short time. We're now seeing them start to really differentiate between a regular MB chassis and a tuned AMG chassis. The SLS was their very first car built from scratch. It's had positive reviews from the press.

Point being is now that AMG is definitely the performance side of Daimler, they are making a much more pointed difference between an AMG and a regular MB. We're going to see some major performance cars with superb suspensions and transmissions, and the M division of BMW will be pushed hard now to do even better. And the difference in handling will no longer be part of the BMW vs AMG arguments, either. BMW will have to come up with something else.