Staff@RPM

Now that we have our shop car we have been getting some driving time uder our belts and we have been doing some testing. One of the things we have been testing is the brakes. We first did tests as the car was delivered to us. The second test we did was with brand new factory rotors, pads and exchanged the brake fluid. There was a marked improvement by replacing the parts on the car (had 60,000 miles) even though the pads and rotors still had good life on them. The biggest improvement came from exchanging the fluid because we have a much firmer pedal and the brakes react much better now.

My biggest problem with these brakes is the brake dust. I want to improve the braking performance without creating brake dust but, at the same time, I don't want to wear the rotors out quickly, I want a high quality brake pad that is quiet and I don't want to have to get the brakes hotter for them to work better. There is one company out there that can deliver what I want from my experience and many of you may have never heard of them, Project Mu.

We have just placed an order to have Project Mu pads made for our cars and I should expect them in about a month. Once we get the pads I am going to install some brake lines and do some more testing and release all of our results. From my experience these brake pads have proven to be the most reliable aftermarket high performance brake pads I have ever used. Almost every NASCAR team is using Project Mu brake pads in there cars now.

We measure one thing when testing these brakes, 60-0 stopping distance. We do it with the ABS on and we measure it on both a smooth road and a bumpy road.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask and, if I don't know the answer, I will try and find it out for you. I should have final pricing by the end of the week for you.

Worth the wait

More options are always better!
Do you plan on testing just the lines, with stock pads or are you going to swap lines and the Mu pads at the same time?

Thanks for your commitment!

What's next????

Staff@RPM

I will do the lines with the stock pads first. I am making a spreadsheet to gather all of this data we have been getting and I am going to have to come up with an easy to understand way to present it when we are done.

We are spending a lot of time testing these simple things because we truly believe that this is where a lot of customers are misinformed and we think it is good for us to be better educated on these things as well. As for the pulleys and headers and stuff like that there seems to be a lot of information already available for everyone so we will gather some information on some of the lesser known parts of the car for now.

We did some high speed stopping tests with some Porterfield pads but we were not happy with how they worked when they were cold. They worked better under high temperature conditions but they were much slower to start working when you initially hit the brakes and for us, we feel that is no good for a street car. There is nothing better than having immediate results when you hit the brakes on the street.

vw_mkv

what compound are u getting from them? I have used their brake pads b4 and they are very big with the JDM market. Genuine Japanese parts.

Staff@RPM

Type NS

O-55

what fluid did you go with?

And +1 on the P-Mu's...great product.

Staff@RPM

We use ATE Super Blue

Staff@RPM

The pricing for the set of front pads is $375.00 and the rears is $175.00. We will have introductory pricing for the first ten sets at $300.00 for the fronts and $145.00 for the rears. I hope that everyone that buys them at the introductory rate would comment on how they work whether the results are good or bad.

I will have them available to ship by the end of August.

mekantor

You're installing steel lines? How much are those?

Staff@RPM

I will let you know. I have 2 manufacturers making them for us right now and we will check the quality of each one and then I will release the price. They should be a very low cost upgrade. I would expect them to be less than $200 for a set of four.

Worth the wait

Do a package with the super blue fluid and the steel lines...DO IT!

Staff@RPM

I will have a package with front and rear pads, lines and Super Blue and I guess that I can do a package with just Super Blue and lines as well. I can't see any reason to sell the lines without a can of Super Blue. I bet you the price for the lines and Super Blue can be under $200.00.

mekantor

I'm curious, are you bleeding the brake fluid using Star Diagnostics, or using a pump?

Staff@RPM

I used the Star and to tell you the truth I wasn't happy with the way it felt. I ended up using a power bleeder without the Star and I have been much happier with the results. I don't know if that makes much sense but that is how I did it.

komp55

ATE Super Blue is not DOT 4+ spec brake fluid, and should not be used in SBC brake systems since it isn't designed for or intended to be used in electronic brake systems. ATE makes SL6 fluid, which is suitable for use in the SBC brake system.

As for stainless brake lines, there may be some merit to them having enhanced durability over traditional rubber brake lines, but their original use as an upgrade was to enhance brake pedal feel in hydrualic brake systems. They simply made the pedal feel firmer. In cars with electronic brakes such as ours, this is a mainly waste of money because when you press the brake pedal, you are pressing an electric pedal switch and the type of brake line on your car will not change the "feel" of your brake pedal. That's a fact. Simply put, the brake pedal is completely isolated from the hydraulic portion of the SBC braking system. The only reason for stainless brake lines on an SBC-equipped car is for looks, or for fear of encountering road debris that may cut your brake line. And how often has that happened?

Staff@RPM

I hate to argue with you but I have a can of Super Blue in front of me right now and it is a DOT 4 fluid although I do have the SL6 fluid here as well and it is cheaper than the Super Blue so if you are right about the fluid that would be better for us. I also hate to argue with you about pedal feel but I am also hoping that maybe you can explain to me how my pedal was very low with air in my brake line and when I bled the system with new fluid how my pedal became firm and felt good again. If what you say is true than there should be no change in my pedal feel but there was. Lastly, and I could very well be wrong here as I am not an expert on fluid dynamics or whatever you want to call it but, I always thought that when the fluid gets hot and the rubber brake lines would expand you would lose braking performance as well as a softer pedal. I could have sworn that I remember that the brakes in my car felt better after a hard session of driving with stainless steel brake lines as opposed to without them. Maybe it was just in my head because my pedal stayed firmer but I could swear that the brakes performed better as well.

There could be some merit to some of what you say but the can of ATE does say it is DOT4 and my pedal is way firmer and feels way better after bleeding the system so I am a big believer of seeing is believing and this is what my experience has been. Maybe it is all in my imagination but I am finding that hard to believe.

Worth the wait

Simply bleeding the lines and replacing the fluid (any) might explain why the pedal feels firmer.

komp55

And that's the problem. The SBC brake system requires DOT 4 Plus spec brake fluid, not DOT 4. The MB spec sheet is attached.

Whatever you felt through the pedal was imagined. It's just an electronic switch.

mekantor

If the pressure applied by the SBC goes directly to the pad, as opposed to the pad and the flexing rubber line, it will work more efficiently and it's internal feedback mechanisms will get faster reponces. So I think there is functional justification for steel lines in either application.

Pedal feel is like The Matrix, just a simulation, based on various parameters gathered by many various sensors.

komp55

Given the existing operating pressure of the SBC system, it's extremely unlikely that any incremental flex in the stock brake lines versus an aftermarket SS brakeline results in any measureable improvement in braking performance. I'd have to see differences in milliseconds of response times between the two types of lines to be convinced. SS lines may be more durable though (as previously noted).

That said, Brembo includes stainless lines with their Gran Turismo big brake kits, and here's a shot of the Brembo supplied Gates stainless line I took when I installed my Brembo GT BBKs:

Staff@RPM

If anyone decides that they want to order the stainless steel brake lines we will have them ready to ship at the end of this month (July). The price is $150.00 for a set of four. I will include a bottle of ATE fluid for $15.00 and you can choose the Super Blue Racing, which is what I put in my car or the SL6 which is what Komp55 says is the correct fluid for the car. Either way I will get you whatever you want at a great price and I will have everything available.

komp55

Let's be accurate. It's Mercedes Benz, not me, saying the SBC equipped cars require the use of DOT 4 Plus brake fluid - which ATE Super Blue is NOT.

Staff@RPM

I'm not throwing you under the bus here, sorry if I came across that way. I'm sure a lot of people will want the fluid that you are talking about, I'm just trying to satisfy everyone's needs here. I'm trying to deliver what the community will want, not what I say they need. I'm here for you guys so please don't take that the wrong way. I wasn't aware about the fluid and, when I change my fluid again next time I will probably use the fluid you are talking about. Thanks for pointing that out, I am just happy that we carry both fluids here in stock so I can offer anything that anybody wants.

Staff@RPM

Here is a picture of the stainless steel brake line set for the 211 E55 and E63.

Staff@RPM

I decided to put a full package together for those interested that will include the brake lines, 2 liters of high performance fluid and a Motive power bleeder kit as well.

I am going to sell this complete package for $230.00. I have everything in stock except for the power bleeders, I just ordered them today so, if you decide to order the parts immediately I can have the power bleeder drop shipped or I will have it all in stock in a week and you can wait until then. I will also include instructions on how to do it with the power bleeder without using the Star.