Just sat in an 03 E55 at the NY Auto Show
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Upper Saddle River, NJ
2002 E46 M3
I defy you to tell me that the brake feel on the E Class is better than the M5. Recente C&D test results also show that the current M5 stops shorter, and with better control, than the E55. A 1.5 sec difference at Hockenheim is actually a BIG disappointment for the E55 given a 100 hp power differential. I was only able to drive an E500, and that car was no match for even the current 540i. Not to severely diminish the E55, which is a FANTASTIC car, but some aspects of the electronic "nannies" in the E Class are a HUGE impediment to driving enjoyment. The braking feel and performance are but one aspect of the driving experience, but a significant one, I think.
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 118
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From: South Germany
Porsche 997 Turbo
Originally posted by ZZZZMD
I defy you to tell me that the brake feel on the E Class is better than the M5. Recente C&D test results also show that the current M5 stops shorter, and with better control, than the E55. A 1.5 sec difference at Hockenheim is actually a BIG disappointment for the E55 given a 100 hp power differential. I was only able to drive an E500, and that car was no match for even the current 540i. Not to severely diminish the E55, which is a FANTASTIC car, but some aspects of the electronic "nannies" in the E Class are a HUGE impediment to driving enjoyment. The braking feel and performance are but one aspect of the driving experience, but a significant one, I think.
I defy you to tell me that the brake feel on the E Class is better than the M5. Recente C&D test results also show that the current M5 stops shorter, and with better control, than the E55. A 1.5 sec difference at Hockenheim is actually a BIG disappointment for the E55 given a 100 hp power differential. I was only able to drive an E500, and that car was no match for even the current 540i. Not to severely diminish the E55, which is a FANTASTIC car, but some aspects of the electronic "nannies" in the E Class are a HUGE impediment to driving enjoyment. The braking feel and performance are but one aspect of the driving experience, but a significant one, I think.
I drove two M5 up til now and I didn't like them too much.
They were impressive products but since the E 55 showed up, I'm not impressed anymore. Yes, the manual tranny is much better than the auto on the E 55, forget about speedshift. But else?
BTW: before owning the E 55, I owned a 543 HP Porsche 996 Turbo tuned by RS-Tuning (incl. H&R coilover kit) and I think I have a pretty good feeling for comparison.
Don't get me wrong: the E 55 is no real sportscar by the classic term but it is a very fast, very powerful limousine which provides a lot of fun. And I can move my family too with it.
The E500 is not modified by AMG, the Airmatic DC on this car has a completely different setup. Regarding performance on the straight line, I doubt the E500 can't outran a 540i but I don't have any proof for that.
Regarding the brake on the E55: I don't have any problem with the brake feel but you're somehow right if you say that the M5 has a better braking performance, I don't doubt it...from my own experience. But again: 150 kg less weight make the difference.
I also think that the SBC is so new that DC has to learn yet how to adapt it to it's full potential.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 118
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From: South Germany
Porsche 997 Turbo
Originally posted by Pbglas
Rennteam, would you post some pictures of your 211? Love to see them. Those are the colors I was thinking of.
Rennteam, would you post some pictures of your 211? Love to see them. Those are the colors I was thinking of.
Here are some of the options: COMAND, active cornering headlamps, Harman/Kardon sound system, infrared reflecting glass, in-dash 6 CD changer, etc.
The car also has the original AMG 300 kph top speed raise.
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 158
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From: Southwest USA
Since brake-by-wire is a digital system, it is software driven, and software can always be upgraded. Does anyone know if MB will realease software updates as they learn more about the car and braking system from customers?
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Joined: Dec 2001
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ZZZZMD: why do you bother coming to an E55 site to try to convince people that the E55 is less of a car than the (outdated) M5?
Do you really think people here are going to agree with you?
Do you think you'll change anyone's mind?
1) There is no arguing about the straight line performance advantage of the E55 vs. M5.
2) There is no arguing that the interior design and amenities of the E55 are superior (given that the M5 is a 1996 design, that only stands to reason).
3) Exterior design of the M5 is clearly dated. Not everyone raves about the E55, but it is current looking and certainly is not a negative aspect.
4) When it comes to handling/steering and braking I believe that more than 50% of users feel the M5 is superior.
These are pretty much givens about the two cars.
Until the new E60 comes out, the M5 will not sit alone atop the luxo-sport heap.
That's just the way it is.
Do you really think people here are going to agree with you?
Do you think you'll change anyone's mind?
1) There is no arguing about the straight line performance advantage of the E55 vs. M5.
2) There is no arguing that the interior design and amenities of the E55 are superior (given that the M5 is a 1996 design, that only stands to reason).
3) Exterior design of the M5 is clearly dated. Not everyone raves about the E55, but it is current looking and certainly is not a negative aspect.
4) When it comes to handling/steering and braking I believe that more than 50% of users feel the M5 is superior.
These are pretty much givens about the two cars.
Until the new E60 comes out, the M5 will not sit alone atop the luxo-sport heap.
That's just the way it is.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,351
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From: Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Porcelain Bus
At least the W211 is not butt ugly!!!
BMW definitely makes great handling vehicles, but the Banglisized E60 is hideous and although in real life it may look better, it's not going to look good. Many BMW fans are rethinking their allegiances or snapping up the remaining E39 M5's despite it's 1990's technology. Judging from the posts on roadfly and bmwm5.com, the majority of the aficionados are unhappy with the final form of the new 5 series.
Regarding the brake issue, the electronic brakes on the MB function well but have a different feel. After a few weeks in the car, they no longer feel disconnected and are very responsive. They just take some time to get used to. The software can only get better as is evidenced by the hold and release feature soon to be available where when the car is stopped, the pedal can be released and the brakes continue to hold until the accelerator is pressed. Another impressive feature is the lack of grinding an pulsing when panic braking and using the antilock feature. This leads to very smooth hard braking.
I want to point out one final thing, E55's will be smoking M5's for a year and a half before the first E60 M5 hits our shores, and even if it does have more hp than the E55, I doubt it will surpass the E55's 0-150 mph time of 23 sec which is something I plan to experience on a regular basis. But I guess it might outperform me on the track should I ever venture there during my course of ownership. 516 lb-ft talks, bull**** walks.
Hey ZZZZZMD, maybe you ought to check out the Caddy CTS-v when it comes out. I think its nicer than the pics of the new 5 series.
BMW definitely makes great handling vehicles, but the Banglisized E60 is hideous and although in real life it may look better, it's not going to look good. Many BMW fans are rethinking their allegiances or snapping up the remaining E39 M5's despite it's 1990's technology. Judging from the posts on roadfly and bmwm5.com, the majority of the aficionados are unhappy with the final form of the new 5 series.
Regarding the brake issue, the electronic brakes on the MB function well but have a different feel. After a few weeks in the car, they no longer feel disconnected and are very responsive. They just take some time to get used to. The software can only get better as is evidenced by the hold and release feature soon to be available where when the car is stopped, the pedal can be released and the brakes continue to hold until the accelerator is pressed. Another impressive feature is the lack of grinding an pulsing when panic braking and using the antilock feature. This leads to very smooth hard braking.
I want to point out one final thing, E55's will be smoking M5's for a year and a half before the first E60 M5 hits our shores, and even if it does have more hp than the E55, I doubt it will surpass the E55's 0-150 mph time of 23 sec which is something I plan to experience on a regular basis. But I guess it might outperform me on the track should I ever venture there during my course of ownership. 516 lb-ft talks, bull**** walks.
Hey ZZZZZMD, maybe you ought to check out the Caddy CTS-v when it comes out. I think its nicer than the pics of the new 5 series.
Last edited by Dr Chill; Apr 20, 2003 at 09:22 PM.
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Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
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From: Chicago
E55
This article from the Times sums up the E55 vs M5 debate. I think E 55 folks will like it.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...524901,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...524901,00.html
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
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From: Chicago
E55
Just thought I woul post the end of the review from the URL in my last message
`Purists will still prefer the M5, despite its inferior steering, partly because it is still slightly better balanced than the Merc but mainly because it is available with a six-speed manual gearbox. Mercedes offers only a five-speed auto and, good though it is, it is less involving and therefore less rewarding.
Purist that I am, I'd still choose an M5 but I'd do so knowing this said more about me than either car. The BMW is also £8,500 cheaper. For everyone else, though, there is a new king. The Mercedes E 55 AMG is the best sports saloon in the world.'
`Purists will still prefer the M5, despite its inferior steering, partly because it is still slightly better balanced than the Merc but mainly because it is available with a six-speed manual gearbox. Mercedes offers only a five-speed auto and, good though it is, it is less involving and therefore less rewarding.
Purist that I am, I'd still choose an M5 but I'd do so knowing this said more about me than either car. The BMW is also £8,500 cheaper. For everyone else, though, there is a new king. The Mercedes E 55 AMG is the best sports saloon in the world.'
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 118
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From: South Germany
Porsche 997 Turbo
Originally posted by RedBaron
Since brake-by-wire is a digital system, it is software driven, and software can always be upgraded. Does anyone know if MB will realease software updates as they learn more about the car and braking system from customers?
Since brake-by-wire is a digital system, it is software driven, and software can always be upgraded. Does anyone know if MB will realease software updates as they learn more about the car and braking system from customers?
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Upper Saddle River, NJ
2002 E46 M3
I agree that the E60 5 Series is going to have potentially hideous styling. I also stand by my claim that driver input and involvement has been dialed out of the new E Class. I point to the December, 2002 issue of AUTOMOBILE magazine which reflects much of this sentiment. This is not to say I didn't consider the E55. I was number 2 on my dealer's list for an E55, but cancelled after driving the E500. Just not any soul in that car, although it is beautifully styled. If the E60 is too foul for me, will consider Porsche, new Aston AMV8, or even take another look at E55 or SL55. The SL is also gorgeous and has similar performance. Also, they may update the braking software and adjust the steering feel over the next year or so in the Benz.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
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From: Chicago
E55
I read somewhere that current BMW owners hat the new styling. But car desgners by and large do what they are supposed to. The styling will most likely grow on you. By the time the car comes out there will be some similar looking cars around preparing us for this new look.
I also do not doubt that in some respects the new M5 will be better than the E55. The following E55 will again be better in some repsects. That is progress.
For me now the Times article saying E55 is the best saloon is good recommendation for now.
I also do not doubt that in some respects the new M5 will be better than the E55. The following E55 will again be better in some repsects. That is progress.
For me now the Times article saying E55 is the best saloon is good recommendation for now.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 134
Likes: 1
When I drive it I will decide
Car magazines mean very little to me. I am going to the AMG Challenge and will flog the new E55 for a whole day and decide for myself.
It is sad that many purchasers will never be able to test drive one of these monsters because they are in such short supply.
Moreover, the AMG Challenge is only for current AMG owners (I believe) so there is little chance that others will have the opportunity I have. That is a shame.
My date is June 21st -- I will report back thereafter on my firsthand impressions if anyone cares.
It is sad that many purchasers will never be able to test drive one of these monsters because they are in such short supply.
Moreover, the AMG Challenge is only for current AMG owners (I believe) so there is little chance that others will have the opportunity I have. That is a shame.
My date is June 21st -- I will report back thereafter on my firsthand impressions if anyone cares.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,351
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From: Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Porcelain Bus
Not just for AMG owners only
The AMG challenge invitation was extended to those signed up with MB owners online as well as any AMG owners. All those who got an invitation could also invite up to 5 friends. I can't wait until May 21 at Daytona Intl Speedway.
