Future of AMG
03-28-2011, 06:28 PM
#1
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Future of AMG
I was curious as to where you guys thought the future of AMG Vehicles is heading... With exotic manufacturers (Porsche at least) introducing hybrids, do you think AMG will follow suit?
With cars like the GT-R annihilating any current AMG offering (stock vs. stock) and even the CTS-V giving the current E63 a run for its money, do you think AMG has some catching up to do to stay competitive?
Or, do you think they will follow the current course?
For me, I chose my E55 for a few reasons. I have always loved the AMG brand and dreamt of owning one (isn't it truly awesome owning a car that many people dream about!). It combines luxury and brutal acceleration in one package. I also wanted a four door, as I have a child who requires a car seat. Sure I could get by with something like a CL63/65, but the convenience of four doors is essential for me at this time. Not to mention the vehicle is understated. I once commented about the SMS Challenger 570X on youtube in which I stated that I would rather have my E55 compared to this and someone replied something about the fact that I would just "blend in" in my E55 vs the 570X... I was going to reply, "Boy, I sure hope so," but I could tell this person just wouldn't get it... Isn't it great pulling up to an unsuspecting Mustang/Camaro/lots of other cars at a redlight and they just look at you like "oh, come on, I will take you easily" and then totally annihilating them!!!
But that being said, and as others have debated about, after owning a vehicle like this, what's next? Is the current line up enough? Or does AMG have some catching up to do to remain competitive?
With cars like the GT-R annihilating any current AMG offering (stock vs. stock) and even the CTS-V giving the current E63 a run for its money, do you think AMG has some catching up to do to stay competitive?
Or, do you think they will follow the current course?
For me, I chose my E55 for a few reasons. I have always loved the AMG brand and dreamt of owning one (isn't it truly awesome owning a car that many people dream about!). It combines luxury and brutal acceleration in one package. I also wanted a four door, as I have a child who requires a car seat. Sure I could get by with something like a CL63/65, but the convenience of four doors is essential for me at this time. Not to mention the vehicle is understated. I once commented about the SMS Challenger 570X on youtube in which I stated that I would rather have my E55 compared to this and someone replied something about the fact that I would just "blend in" in my E55 vs the 570X... I was going to reply, "Boy, I sure hope so," but I could tell this person just wouldn't get it... Isn't it great pulling up to an unsuspecting Mustang/Camaro/lots of other cars at a redlight and they just look at you like "oh, come on, I will take you easily" and then totally annihilating them!!!
But that being said, and as others have debated about, after owning a vehicle like this, what's next? Is the current line up enough? Or does AMG have some catching up to do to remain competitive?
Last edited by 06E55; 03-28-2011 at 09:43 PM.
03-28-2011, 09:38 PM
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
They've already built an electric SLS that's been pretty well publicized.
Go to the Daimler media press release website to get all the info on news and trends from AMG.
p.s., an AMG is a Mercedes first. So they will always have Mercedes DNA.
Go to the Daimler media press release website to get all the info on news and trends from AMG.
p.s., an AMG is a Mercedes first. So they will always have Mercedes DNA.
03-28-2011, 10:46 PM
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E63,,,not any more,,,BMW X5 50i
My thought on this is that MB will continue with the AMG line, but not as we know AMG. The current TT and I feel the start of a "new" AMG is not a true AMG, meaning an AMG built and designed engine.It is a MB engine, and it was even designed by MB. You can get that same engine in a MB or in a AMG, just electronically tune the engine up or down! Tune it up, it's an AMG, detune it, it's a MB. The last "true" AMG engine was the E63.......
Probably the only reason they keep the AMG line is the profit margin,,
JMO
Probably the only reason they keep the AMG line is the profit margin,,
JMO
03-29-2011, 12:10 AM
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2013 C63 AMG P31, 2014 GMC Sierra (6.2)
My thought on this is that MB will continue with the AMG line, but not as we know AMG. The current TT and I feel the start of a "new" AMG is not a true AMG, meaning an AMG built and designed engine.It is a MB engine, and it was even designed by MB. You can get that same engine in a MB or in a AMG, just electronically tune the engine up or down! Tune it up, it's an AMG, detune it, it's a MB. The last "true" AMG engine was the E63.......
Probably the only reason they keep the AMG line is the profit margin,,
JMO
Probably the only reason they keep the AMG line is the profit margin,,
JMO
03-29-2011, 12:34 AM
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2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
I think the glory days of the E55/63/tt 55s ruling the roost are coming to a close. So many high hp cars now ya know. We'll still be near top of the pack but the days of being farrrrr out in front like 03-05 are done. Hp wise that is.
Good stiff still coming bro. NOWHERE to go but up hp wise on that TT baby, and don't think for a minute they didn't demand amg give their motor info to Benz development. It's the same company!!!!
Good stiff still coming bro. NOWHERE to go but up hp wise on that TT baby, and don't think for a minute they didn't demand amg give their motor info to Benz development. It's the same company!!!!
03-29-2011, 05:06 AM
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Mercedes E55 AMG (2006), Mercedes 560 SEL (1991)
According to Car and Driver, 'the era of high-revving, naturally aspirated engines has passed its zenith at Mercedes-Benz’s AMG performance division.'
The 63 always struck me as a response to BMW's e60 m5. Excellent engine, no doubt, but its torque peak at 5200 rpm was always rather 'peaky' and frenetic for me. The AMG before it typically had a significantly lower and flatter torque curve. For example, the '00 e55 peaked at 3000 rpm and the 03 e55k peaked at 2650 (and remained on this plateau all the way to 4000 rpm).
The new 5.5TT makes 590 lb-ft all the way from 2000 rpm to 4500 rpm. In my book this represents a return to the traditional AMG philosophy. Especially as the optional power package raises this plateau to 664 lb-ft between 2500 and 3750 rpm. This, while taking power up from 536 to 563 bhp. Something tells me this will be a very popular option. My prediction is that at some point this option will become standard. I also believe that at some point power will be raised beyond even this, to maintain the pecking order; it is, afterall, largely a matter of boost.
Guys, happy days are here again...! Now, where's that pesky CTS-V...
Brgds
The 63 always struck me as a response to BMW's e60 m5. Excellent engine, no doubt, but its torque peak at 5200 rpm was always rather 'peaky' and frenetic for me. The AMG before it typically had a significantly lower and flatter torque curve. For example, the '00 e55 peaked at 3000 rpm and the 03 e55k peaked at 2650 (and remained on this plateau all the way to 4000 rpm).
The new 5.5TT makes 590 lb-ft all the way from 2000 rpm to 4500 rpm. In my book this represents a return to the traditional AMG philosophy. Especially as the optional power package raises this plateau to 664 lb-ft between 2500 and 3750 rpm. This, while taking power up from 536 to 563 bhp. Something tells me this will be a very popular option. My prediction is that at some point this option will become standard. I also believe that at some point power will be raised beyond even this, to maintain the pecking order; it is, afterall, largely a matter of boost.
Guys, happy days are here again...! Now, where's that pesky CTS-V...
Brgds
Last edited by OK55; 03-29-2011 at 05:34 AM.
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03-29-2011, 08:09 AM
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a Rivera...via a Custom 24, Strat and Les Paul
After going to the AMG event this weekend, we were offered some insight into this question. From a performance standpoint AMG will still offer High HP/TQ saloons and coupes but in the future, from what I heard, three major areas are being focused on:
1) Taking away business from the aftermarket - the reason for the CF options, performance options ect is in direct response to what MB and AMG sees as "easy money" going to others. These options are geared towards people who like to modify their cars and MB and AMG would prefer that revenue to come to them rather than go to other companies. When I asked about a "performance plus plus package" for even more HP - I was simply told "that's what the black series is for". It was also stressed at this point that "ANY AFTERMARKET MODIFICATION VOIDS THE EXISTING WARRANTY".
2) having to have the entire fleet of cars average out to 33 mpg. This is the reason for the start/stop option that will come on all AMG vehicles (only activated when in C mode). I was also told directly that superchargers are done as they are too in-efficent compared to turbos. That being said - low end torque is back.
3) Handling - it was acknowledged that Airmatic all the way around is not the best option for AMG level handling and as a result, you have the current change.
I think it's cool and all to have 600hp four door family cars but I think that AMG is running into a situation of diminishing returns with it's current platform. Once you get to the numbers we have currently - electronics intervene alot more to save the driver from the car (there's a reason why everbody stresses "only use dyno mode on closed streets"). If there's anything that the GTR teaches us - it's that 4000lbs cars are capable of astounding performance...however all wheel drive, violent transmissions and sacrifices to "daily driving" are part of that equation and I think that the philosophy "MB first" and "a family friendly" 600hp saloon will always come first. . .
1) Taking away business from the aftermarket - the reason for the CF options, performance options ect is in direct response to what MB and AMG sees as "easy money" going to others. These options are geared towards people who like to modify their cars and MB and AMG would prefer that revenue to come to them rather than go to other companies. When I asked about a "performance plus plus package" for even more HP - I was simply told "that's what the black series is for". It was also stressed at this point that "ANY AFTERMARKET MODIFICATION VOIDS THE EXISTING WARRANTY".
2) having to have the entire fleet of cars average out to 33 mpg. This is the reason for the start/stop option that will come on all AMG vehicles (only activated when in C mode). I was also told directly that superchargers are done as they are too in-efficent compared to turbos. That being said - low end torque is back.
3) Handling - it was acknowledged that Airmatic all the way around is not the best option for AMG level handling and as a result, you have the current change.
I think it's cool and all to have 600hp four door family cars but I think that AMG is running into a situation of diminishing returns with it's current platform. Once you get to the numbers we have currently - electronics intervene alot more to save the driver from the car (there's a reason why everbody stresses "only use dyno mode on closed streets"). If there's anything that the GTR teaches us - it's that 4000lbs cars are capable of astounding performance...however all wheel drive, violent transmissions and sacrifices to "daily driving" are part of that equation and I think that the philosophy "MB first" and "a family friendly" 600hp saloon will always come first. . .
03-29-2011, 08:24 AM
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E63,,,not any more,,,BMW X5 50i
Guys,,,I totally agree that the new AMG is going the TT route, its obvious. I guess I'm in the minority where the sound of a NA to me was paramount. Turbocharging has been around for a while (I had a Buick GN),,then it left and now its back, mainly because of emmissions. I will embrace the TT as a MB, but it's kind of difficullt to say it's an AMG considering you can get the same engine in a plain MB, just detuned.....that said, I think FI is here to stay this time,,,,,,,but it sure makes me wonder what a TT "63" engine would be like!!
03-29-2011, 08:57 AM
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After going to the AMG event this weekend, we were offered some insight into this question. From a performance standpoint AMG will still offer High HP/TQ saloons and coupes but in the future, from what I heard, three major areas are being focused on:
1) Taking away business from the aftermarket - the reason for the CF options, performance options ect is in direct response to what MB and AMG sees as "easy money" going to others. These options are geared towards people who like to modify their cars and MB and AMG would prefer that revenue to come to them rather than go to other companies. When I asked about a "performance plus plus package" for even more HP - I was simply told "that's what the black series is for". It was also stressed at this point that "ANY AFTERMARKET MODIFICATION VOIDS THE EXISTING WARRANTY".
2) having to have the entire fleet of cars average out to 33 mpg. This is the reason for the start/stop option that will come on all AMG vehicles (only activated when in C mode). I was also told directly that superchargers are done as they are too in-efficent compared to turbos. That being said - low end torque is back.
3) Handling - it was acknowledged that Airmatic all the way around is not the best option for AMG level handling and as a result, you have the current change.
I think it's cool and all to have 600hp four door family cars but I think that AMG is running into a situation of diminishing returns with it's current platform. Once you get to the numbers we have currently - electronics intervene alot more to save the driver from the car (there's a reason why everbody stresses "only use dyno mode on closed streets"). If there's anything that the GTR teaches us - it's that 4000lbs cars are capable of astounding performance...however all wheel drive, violent transmissions and sacrifices to "daily driving" are part of that equation and I think that the philosophy "MB first" and "a family friendly" 600hp saloon will always come first. . .
1) Taking away business from the aftermarket - the reason for the CF options, performance options ect is in direct response to what MB and AMG sees as "easy money" going to others. These options are geared towards people who like to modify their cars and MB and AMG would prefer that revenue to come to them rather than go to other companies. When I asked about a "performance plus plus package" for even more HP - I was simply told "that's what the black series is for". It was also stressed at this point that "ANY AFTERMARKET MODIFICATION VOIDS THE EXISTING WARRANTY".
2) having to have the entire fleet of cars average out to 33 mpg. This is the reason for the start/stop option that will come on all AMG vehicles (only activated when in C mode). I was also told directly that superchargers are done as they are too in-efficent compared to turbos. That being said - low end torque is back.
3) Handling - it was acknowledged that Airmatic all the way around is not the best option for AMG level handling and as a result, you have the current change.
I think it's cool and all to have 600hp four door family cars but I think that AMG is running into a situation of diminishing returns with it's current platform. Once you get to the numbers we have currently - electronics intervene alot more to save the driver from the car (there's a reason why everbody stresses "only use dyno mode on closed streets"). If there's anything that the GTR teaches us - it's that 4000lbs cars are capable of astounding performance...however all wheel drive, violent transmissions and sacrifices to "daily driving" are part of that equation and I think that the philosophy "MB first" and "a family friendly" 600hp saloon will always come first. . .
2) Looks like my E55 will stay with me for quite some time! I only manage 22mpg on a three-hour highway trip with an average speed of 65mph... I guess if it is only active when in C, then it isn't a problem, but I sure hope regulations don't make it mandatory all of the time!
3) AMG/MB have never been known to be the best handling cars anyway... Hardly a fault of the airmatic alone. I will say that the current models handle much better than past offerings....
I agree with the comment about electronics intervening and it's sad that people don't know how to truly handle their cars without them... But that is definitely something MB/AMG has to take into consideration. Heck, even the Veyron has a "limp" mode...
I get that it isn't all about brute force speed. If I wanted that, I would have purchased a ZR1/GTR... But AMG used to lead the pack, now they are falling behind... The question is, will they continue to do so?
03-29-2011, 09:46 AM
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Mercedes S55 AMG
I personally think they need to focus on 2 areas: handling and the transmission. There is enough power, so a more direct driver connection to the car, along with a more engaging transmission will make them more fun to drive. They have been improving this in the last few years, but since these are not full sports cars like a Porsche or gtr, I wonder how far that can go while keeping the luxury aspect.
03-29-2011, 09:49 AM
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That's a very good point and I wonder if that hinders them in a way... Could you imagine the performance of the GTR in an E55 package?
03-29-2011, 10:30 AM
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After going to the AMG event this weekend, we were offered some insight into this question. From a performance standpoint AMG will still offer High HP/TQ saloons and coupes but in the future, from what I heard, three major areas are being focused on:
1) Taking away business from the aftermarket - the reason for the CF options, performance options ect is in direct response to what MB and AMG sees as "easy money" going to others. These options are geared towards people who like to modify their cars and MB and AMG would prefer that revenue to come to them rather than go to other companies. When I asked about a "performance plus plus package" for even more HP - I was simply told "that's what the black series is for". It was also stressed at this point that "ANY AFTERMARKET MODIFICATION VOIDS THE EXISTING WARRANTY".
2) having to have the entire fleet of cars average out to 33 mpg. This is the reason for the start/stop option that will come on all AMG vehicles (only activated when in C mode). I was also told directly that superchargers are done as they are too in-efficent compared to turbos. That being said - low end torque is back.
3) Handling - it was acknowledged that Airmatic all the way around is not the best option for AMG level handling and as a result, you have the current change.
I think it's cool and all to have 600hp four door family cars but I think that AMG is running into a situation of diminishing returns with it's current platform. Once you get to the numbers we have currently - electronics intervene alot more to save the driver from the car (there's a reason why everbody stresses "only use dyno mode on closed streets"). If there's anything that the GTR teaches us - it's that 4000lbs cars are capable of astounding performance...however all wheel drive, violent transmissions and sacrifices to "daily driving" are part of that equation and I think that the philosophy "MB first" and "a family friendly" 600hp saloon will always come first. . .
1) Taking away business from the aftermarket - the reason for the CF options, performance options ect is in direct response to what MB and AMG sees as "easy money" going to others. These options are geared towards people who like to modify their cars and MB and AMG would prefer that revenue to come to them rather than go to other companies. When I asked about a "performance plus plus package" for even more HP - I was simply told "that's what the black series is for". It was also stressed at this point that "ANY AFTERMARKET MODIFICATION VOIDS THE EXISTING WARRANTY".
2) having to have the entire fleet of cars average out to 33 mpg. This is the reason for the start/stop option that will come on all AMG vehicles (only activated when in C mode). I was also told directly that superchargers are done as they are too in-efficent compared to turbos. That being said - low end torque is back.
3) Handling - it was acknowledged that Airmatic all the way around is not the best option for AMG level handling and as a result, you have the current change.
I think it's cool and all to have 600hp four door family cars but I think that AMG is running into a situation of diminishing returns with it's current platform. Once you get to the numbers we have currently - electronics intervene alot more to save the driver from the car (there's a reason why everbody stresses "only use dyno mode on closed streets"). If there's anything that the GTR teaches us - it's that 4000lbs cars are capable of astounding performance...however all wheel drive, violent transmissions and sacrifices to "daily driving" are part of that equation and I think that the philosophy "MB first" and "a family friendly" 600hp saloon will always come first. . .
He also committed that airmatic is to slow to compensate to changes in the road conditions. But one good thing to the 5.5 Bi-Turbo is there is no gas guzzler tax. And lets just hope that they (AMG) make CF parts are existing platforms, and not just the new ones.
03-29-2011, 07:53 PM
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Mercedes E55 AMG (2006), Mercedes 560 SEL (1991)
Brgds
03-30-2011, 08:29 AM
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I don't see many manufacturers building big NA engines, as the emissions standards and the EPA is making it hard for car manufacturers to meet those standards here is the US. Talking to an AMG Representative last Sunday, AMG vision is for smaller displacment engines, augmented by Turbos. I don't think that SC are gone, but turbo are here to stay until the mean time. Will AMG produce big 12 cylinders sure, but the standards in the US are getting so stringent, that designers have to find alternate ways of producing more power.
03-30-2011, 08:57 PM
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The power an AMG like the E55 puts down is amazing, but do you guys ever wish that perhaps the transmission was a bit more driver-controllable and the car had sharper handling? (akin to the Bmw M5) I.e to switch lanes, take faster curves, etc.
I think with the 63's they definitely made an improvement with the transmission and handling, no doubt.
I think with the 63's they definitely made an improvement with the transmission and handling, no doubt.
Last edited by rondocap; 03-30-2011 at 08:58 PM. Reason: a
